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found none that did not beg for land. They all fully appreciate the utter hopelessness of contending against the Government of the United States. They all want land and cattle. They are cultivating the soil a little, and would do it more if they could be protected in the use of the land. But they settle about a spring, and the white man wants it, and takes it, of course. The white man can enter it and take it under the law, and get protection in his right to the land, but the Indian cannot. California, Nevada, and Utah, and much of Colorado (taking out Eastern Utah and Western Colorado) are thickly settled. That is, they are inore thickly settled than the Middle States in proportion to their agricultural capabilities. Mining in that country is creating a demand for the products of the soil. Grain in Nevada is worth from three to ten cents per pound, and bay from $25 to $100 a ton,' and fruit is high in the same proportion, and every piece of country that can be cultivated is seized upon. Land in itself is of no value in that country, but water is of value, and the white men seize the water.rights, anil the several States and Territories have laws that protect them in such rights. In all that country, excepting a part of California, there is not an acre of land that can be cultivated without irrigation. So the white people seize this water, and the Iudians can no longer cultivate the soil, but they are anxious to obtain possession of land and cultivate it.

The exception to the statement I have made is in Western Colorado. There there is a district of 13,000,000 acres, set apart by treaty with the Utes, as a reservation, in which there is a good deal of gold and silver, probably. And I know that there is a vast amount of very good coal, some farining-lands, &c. In that country there is an abundance of game, and the Indians there have never been thoroughly subdued, and they do not desire to cultivate the soil.

Mr. HAWLEY, of Illinois. How many of them are there?

Major POWELL. About 1,600. The Indians in the Territory which I indicated a few minutes ago number about 10,000, but they are carried on the books of the Indian Department as 28,000.

The CHAIRMAN. What opportunities had you for taking this census !

Major POWELL. There were certain Indians of whom the Department lad a definite census. Those I did not visit. The number of Indians belonging to the reservation at Fort Hall, in Idabo, were well known. The numbers at Pyramid Lake reservation and at Walker River reservation were also known. The Indians at Malheur, in Eastern Oregon, were well known. The other Indiaus were off reservations, scattered about the country, and their numbers were not well known. But when we came to count those Indians who were off reservations we found them less than one-fourth of what they were supposed to be. Taking the census of those wbo were off reservations and adding them to those on the reservations, makes a little over 10,000.

The CHAIRMAX. Did you do this under the authority of the United States?

Major POWELL. Yes; at the request of the Secretary of the Interior.

Mr. HAWLEY, of Illinois, In what States and Territories did you make the census of which you speak ?

Major POWELL. In Utah, Nevada, Arizona, California, and Southern Idaho.

Mr. HAWLEY, of Illinois. What number of Indians did you find within the limits of those States and Territories ?

Major POWELL. Ten thousand four hundred and thirty-seren. There is a reservation sonth of Central Oregon called Klamath, and another reservation known as the Warm Spring reservation in Northern Central Oregon. The Indians on those reservations were Indians who originally belonged on the other side of the mountains, and who were taken from the settlement there across the mountains to get rid of them.

There are three agencies at which the Utes of Western Colorado re. port, one at White River, one at Denver, and one at Los Pinos. The Indians at White River I have lived among, spending eight months consecutively with them at one time. They are carried on the papers of the Indian Department as being a little over 3,000. About three-fourths of those tribes this summer met a special commissioner, Mr. Brunot, and signed an agreement for the ceding of certain lands which are occupied by miners ; 298 persons signed the agreement, one refusing to sign it. By my own judgment of the population, and by the facts ex. bibited in the signing of this paper, I am led to the conclusion that there are no more than 1,600 Indians, although they are borne on the papers of the Indian Department as over 3,000.

The CHAIRMAN. State the disposition of those Indians toward the whites—whether mischievous, hostile, or friendly.

Major PowELL. All of those Indians are at present friendly, and all of those, excepting the Indians in Colorado, are anxious to become farmers and are begging for land and cattle and are accumulating cat. tle.

The CHAIRMAN. What is their capacity for inischief? Are the settlers able to take care of themselves ?

Major POWELL. They are, except as to those Indians in Colorado. With the others there is no trouble at all. The presence of the troops among them is bad. In the first place the troops are a standing menace to the Indians. Then the Indians have a vast borror of troops, not so much on account of their being as on account of their introducing diseases among them.

The CHAIRMAN. What proportion of settlers generally go with their families out there?

Major POWELL. A good many go with families. The Indians, howerer, blame all these diseases to the soldiers.

Mr. Young. How many of these Indians are in a state of hostility to the Government?

Major POWELL. None of them whatever.

Mr. YOUNG. Then you have already given your opinion that there would be more peace and quiet on the frontier without the troops, or if they were entirely withdrawn?

Major POWELL. Yes, sir; I am speaking of certain bands who are already subdued. I have made exceptions of the other.

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Are the Indians entirely secure, if the troops are withdrawn, from the encroachments of the frontiersmen. who come into the country?

Major POWELL. I think they could be made secure by other means better than with military power. The original policy was to remove the Indians from the east to the western country, and the wild tribes were thus reinforced by the addition of half-civilized Indians from time to time; but now there is no more unexplored and upoccupied country to which the Indians can be driven. It is necessary to pursue a policy toward the Indians adapted to this changed condition of affairs. When there was a great unknown district just beyond the frontier where lines of settlements were growing up, it seemed necessary to protect this frontier by troops, who were mivute-men, to go out and defend the settlers from suddeu attacks or surprises. This state of affairs no longer exists, and we should no longer deal with the Indians as if they were distinct nations or had independent governinents, but we should deal with them as individuals, and when an individual Indian or a number of them are guilty of crimes some means should be provided by which the guilty parties could be brought to justice, rather than to continue the present method of punishing tribes or the Indians at large for the otfenses of such individuals. W is now needed for the Indians under cousideration is not some means for wholesale punishment, but some means to secure justice between Indian and Indian, and between white man and Indian. As at present managed it is sometbing like this: A hungry Indian steals a beef, or a tired Indian steals a horse ; white men set out in search of the thief and kill the first Indian they meet; the Indians then retaliate, and the news flashes through the country that there is an Indian war on band; troops are seut to the country, and a trivial offense costs the Government the expense of an Indian war. In the sequel no justice is secured, the proper Indians are not punished, and usually in such a case the white men of the frontier are greater sufferers than the Indians, as these last bave no great amount of property to lose, and their knowledge of the wilderness and their customs of stealthy warfare are such that it is impossible to punish them severely, except by means which are repugnant to civilized minds.

I am decidedly of the opinion that the military method of dealing with the Indian offenders is altogether bad, failing to secure justice between Indians and whites, and between Indians and Indians, entailing upon the white men of the frontier much loss of property, some loss of life, and keeping up a state of constant terrorism among them, and that altogether it is excessively expensive.

The Indians themselves fully appreciate this method of wholesale and indiscriminate punishment, and think it strange that we should hold all the Indians responsible, or, at least, whole tribes responsible for the bad deeds of a few, and are always ready to cite scores of examples of such treatment received by them from the whites in justification of their own offenses which are similar.

Some system should be devised by which the guilty parties themselves could be brought to justice, and by which the Indians could be made to assist in the execution of justice, as in capturing and delivering over criminals.

The CHAIRMAN. Would the Indians surrender these criminals?

Major POWELL. Yes, I think they would surrender them, if some civil means were taken of arresting thieves and murderers among the In. dians instead of punishing a whole tribe.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you sufficiently acquainted with those Indians to say that it is your belief that they would surrender all criminals and outlaws ?

Major POWELL. No; I would not make such a broad statement, but I think that they would very often do so. Circumstances might be such that they would take the part of the man who committed the crime, but I think a system could be organized by which those criminals could be arrested. As it is now, there is no effort made to arrest them, only an effort to punish the Indians in general.

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Are the Indians entirely secure if the troops are withdrawn, from the encroachments or depredations of frontiersmen? In what way would you administer justice without some power to enforce it?

Major POWELL. I do not see that the presence of the troops has ever to any great extent been instrumental in securing justice to the Indians as against the whites. That has been a very rare thing indeed. Here, for example, is a reservation of 13,000,000 acres in Western Colorado. We are bound under treaty stipulations to secure the Indians in the possession of that reservation. But the white men are going in there and settling it because there is gold and silver and coal found there. And they will continue to do so.

The CHAIRMAN. To what extent ?

Major POWELL. To the settlement of all that country, because the reservation is too large for those Indians, and it is against the sentiments of the white people that the Indians should occupy so much land. You cannot keep the prospectors out of that country unless you have an army of 50,000 men there. The difficulties to be settled between the whites and Indians, so far as the aggressions of the whites are concerned, refer only to the preservation of that reservation. That can be done by military means, if it is thought best, or it can be done by civil means. But if a limited reservation were set apart for the Indians—I mean of small size—then there would be no difficulty in keeping white men out of it. The Vintah reservation in northeast Utal is such a one as I mean. It contains 1,800,000 acres, and no white man has ever settled there, although gold and silver have been found there. As soon as an attempt is made to locate a claim there the agent warns the miners that that is Indian ground, and they leave it. But they have not done so in this large reservation.

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Is it a fact that the Indians are frequently subject to outrages from the settlers and frontiersmen!

Major POWELL. Yes, I think it is.

Mr. ALBRIGHT. If there were no military force there, hoir would you enforce any civil processes against those wrongs ?

Major POWELL. The trouble is now that it is not enforcell, by any means, and I don't see how it can be.

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Then you regard the Indians' rights as hopeless ?

Major POWELL. 1 do, as the Indians are scattered about the country. I think the only thing to be done is to gather them on reservations where they can be protected.

The CHAIRMAN. Your policy would be to hare small reservations?

Major POWELL. Yes; I would take them on small reservations and supply each reservation with a pretty strong force of men, and make the agent and his assistants police officers to punish the Indians who do wrong.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you use military men for that purpose ?

Major POWELL. I would not. In case of war I should employ the citizens of the county rather than soldiers. I would enlist the Indians and frontiersmen rather than take regular troops.

Mr. GUNCKEL. Have you generally found that officers and soldiers of the Army were friendly or hostile to the Indians ?

Major POWELL. Some of the officers were very friendly to the Indians, and I have seen some of them very much in earnest in protecting and caring for the Indians. On the other hand, I have seen others who thought it a very good thing to kill an Indian, and who would boast of it. Among the soldiers it is almost invariably the case that they like to kill Indians.

Mr. GUNCKEL. Generally, are the officers and soldiers in sympathy with the peace policy of the Government ?

Major POWELL. I should say that generally they are not, though many of them are. I should say that generally they think the best thing that can be done is to kill the Indians off.

Mr. YOUNG. You would be in favor of contract-soldiers, would you?

Major POWELL. Yes, I think that a territorial marshal or agent, or an officer of the Army of the United States, enlisting a company there on some system of that kind, can be made use of for the punishment of Indians much better than by the employment of regular troops.

Mr. YOUNG. When you get these fellows together they punish the Indians too much. That is the trouble. A contract-soldier is the most expensive animal you can get hold of.

Major POWELL. It depends on what you want done. If you want to punish the Indians, 1 think a company of volunteers is better able to do it than regular troops, and would do it as humanely as the soldiers of the Regular Army.

Mr. ALBRIGHT. You say that you would organize a sort of police force through the marshal and a posse comitatus. Would not that be the most expensive of all means to enforce discipline?

Major POWELL. The money given to the Army in this district of country, where the Indians are already subdued, if used in the management of the Indians themselves, would take them out of the country, to gather them all on reservations, even in Illinois, and purchase the lands necessary for them, and induce them to come to them.

Mr. ALBRIGIIT. I asked you as to the relative cost of the two systems —that of the military or that of the marshal, with the posse comitatus.

Major POWELL. I suppose that to keep up a fort with half a regiment of soldiers does not cost less than half a million dollars a year, and that regiment of soldiers can reach perhaps ten tribes of about 1,000 Indians.

Mr. MACDOUGALL. Do you beloug to the Indian Burean or to the Army of the United States ?

Major POWELL. To neither; but I was employed for a few months this summer to visit certain Indians in Utah and Nevada, for the purpose of preventing hostilities there. I was employed by the Indian Bu. reau—by the Secretary of the Interior.

Mr. HUNTON. Do I understand you to say that, in your opinion, the marshal of those several districts, with power to call on a posse comita. tus, would keep the peace and administer justice better between the whites and Indians than the Army does ?

Major POWELL. I think so.
Mr. HUNTON. At comparatively less cost?
Major POWELL. Yes.

Mr. HUNTON. You cannot form an estimate of the difference of the cost?

Vajor POWELL. I cannot. I should say, in a very general way, that it would not cost one-tenth as much.

Mr. YOUNG. Did you travel amoug those Indian tribes in any other interest besides that of the Indian Bureau ?

Major POWELL. I was sent there by the Smithsonian Institution to study the Indian language. The Smithsonian secured an appropriation from Congress for the last three years to assist in carrying on that work. I was interested in the study of the Indians.

Mr. GUNCKEL. What do you want of a dictionary and grammar of their language !

Major POWELL. It is a question of philology and ethnology ; a question of the relation of the Indian tribes to each other and to humanity at large.

Mr. YOUNG. Do you think you could go among all those Indians with safety to yourself?

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