Dr. BACHER. Senator McMahon, may I answer that question in a little different way: It may well be that what appears now to be the development of atomic energy for peacetime purposes may in the long run be one of our most important elements of national security.

Senator MCMAHON. I think I know what you mean, and I agree with you. The only thought that I have in mind is this, Doctor: That since the fissionable material within the bomb is 80 to 85 percent, I have been told time and time again, of the bomb itself, it would seem that our opportunity for using fissionable material in any widespread way in our economy would be decidedly limited for security reasons by the kind of agreement or lack of agreement we had for international control.

Dr. BACHER. There is undoubtedly a very strong interdependence here.

Senator BRICKER. Dr. Bacher, are you the only scientist trained in the field of nuclear physics that has been appointed to this Board? Dr. BACHER. Yes, sir.

Senator VANDENBERG. Did you share the decided protest which a good section of the scientific world disclosed when our committee proposed to create a Military Liaison Committee?

Dr. BACHER. I hesitate to answer that question, because I am not sure of the facts, but I do not believe I did, Senator.

Senator VANDENBERG. Well, I hope that the facts justify your conclusion.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions?

I think at this moment that is all, Doctor. We will ask you to hold yourself in readiness for the future.

(Witness excused.)

The CHAIRMAN. Admiral Strauss?

Mr. STRAUSS. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you solemnly swear that the statements you make will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Mr. STRAUSs. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. Admiral, your name is Lewis L. Strauss?
Mr. STRAUSS. Yes, sir, and I do not use the military title.

The CHAIRMAN. I have a copy here of the qualifications as listed by the President, and as submitted to the Senate and to this committee, along with your appointment by the President, and that list will be placed in the record at the beginning of your testimony.

TESTIMONY OF LEWIS L. STRAUSS, APPOINTEE AS A MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION

The CHAIRMAN. The experience and qualifications of Admiral Lewis L. Strauss are as follows:

QUALIFICATIONS OF ADMIRAL LEWIS L. STRAUSS

Born: Charleston, W. Va., 1896.

Educated in public schools, Richmond, Va.

1917-19: Private secretary to Hon. Herbert Hoover, United States Food Administration Supreme Economic Council, United States Delegation, Commission to Negotiate Peace (Paris).

1919: Member United States Delegation, Final Armistice Convention, Brussels. 1919-28: Associated with Kuhn, Loeb & Co. (Bankers), New York City.

1929-41: Partner of Kuhn Loeb & Co.; director of United States Leather Co.; Hudson-Manhattan Railroad Co.; Commercial Investment Trust; General American Transportation Corp.; United States Rubber Co.; and other corporations.

1938: Began active support of research in nuclear physics in New York and California.

1941-46: Ordered to active duty in February 1941 as lieutenant commander, United States Naval Reserve, in which he had served since 1925. Organized Inspection Service for Navy Ordnance; originated plan for consolidation of all Navy inspection; conducted ammunition survey for Under Secretary of Navy; appointed Principal Staff Assistant to Chief, Bureau of Ordnance; appointed Special Assistant to Vice Chief of Naval Operations; appointed Assistant Chief of Procurement and Material, in charge of formulating policies for contract termination and related matters; coauthor of the report Joint Procurement for the Army and Navy; appointed Special Assistant to the Secretary of the Navy; appointed as the Navy member of the Executive Committee of the Army-Navy Munitions Board-reorganized the Board at this time.

1942-44: Participated in development of certain secret ordnance items. Made inspection of ordnance performance under combat conditions in Pacific.

1945: Appointed Navy member of the Interdepartmental Committee on Atomic Energy.

Legion of Merit, Navy; Oak Leaf Cluster in lieu of Second Legion of Merit, Army: Gold Star in lieu of Third Legion of Merit, Navy; special letters of commendation from Secretary of Navy and Secretary of War.

1946: Placed on inactive duty, May 1946; returned to Kuhn Loeb & Co.; appointed member, Naval Research Advisory Committee; appointed to the United States Atomic Energy Commission, took oath of office November 12.

Director, National Science Fund; vice president, Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton, N. J.; trustee, Hampton Institute, Hampton, Va.; trustee, Foreign Service Educational Foundation, Washington; trustee, The Jewish Theological Seminary of America, New York City; president, Congregation Emanu-El, New York City; trustee, Memorial Cancer Hospital, New York City; trustee, Institute for Crippled and Disabled, New York City; life trustee, Virginia Museum of Fine Arts; director, Belgian-American Education Foundation; director, Metropolitan Opera.

I notice from that record that from 1917 to 1919 you were private secretary to Herbert Hoover, who was then with the United States Food Administration and with the Supreme Economic Council of the United States Delegation of the Commission to Negotiate Peace; that you were later a member of the United States delegation for the final Armistice Convention at Brussels; you were associated with Kuhn Loeb & Co. of New York City; have been a director and an active participant in several business enterprises, such as the United States Leather Co., Hudson-Manhattan Railroad Co., Commercial Investiment Trust, General American Transportation Corp., United States Rubber Co., and other corporations; and that in 1936 you began active support of research in nuclear physics in New York and California. Then, from 1941 to 1946, you went on active duty in the Navy, and you eventually attained the rank of rear admiral.

Is that correct?

Mr. STRAUSS. That is correct, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. You participated in the development of certain ordnance items of a secret nature, and in 1945 you were appointed as a Navy member of the Interdepartmental Committee on Atomic Energy.

You have been awarded various medals and citations, such as the Legion of Merit, Oak-Leaf Cluster, Gold Star in lieu of third Legion of Merit, and you have special letters of commendation from the Secretary of the Navy and the Secretary of War. You have been on the Naval Research Advisory Committee; you were appointed to

this Atomic Energy Commission by the President; and you hold various offices in various prominent national organizations.

You were born in Charleston, W. Va., I believe, according to this statement.

Mr. STRAUSS. That is right, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And you attended schools in Richmond in your early days, and in Virginia?

Mr. STRAUSS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I am especially interested in your early interest, as is noted here, in the active support of research in nuclear physics in New York and California. Are you a scientist, Admiral?

Mr. STRAUSS. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

The CHAIRMAN. What is meant by that statement that you "began active support of research in nuclear physics in New York and California" in 1946?

I would just like to have you amplify that. Mr. STRAUSs. The date is 1938, sir. That must be a typographical error in the statement. At that time, I became interested in the endeavor to promote research into the causes of cancer and the possible therapy of cancer by means of radio-active isotopes.

It was then possible to make such isotopes either by the use of a cyclotron or more particularly by a device known as a surge generator, in which I was then interested, and one of which I constructed at California Institute of Technology, with the assistance of Dr. Millikan, who was then the president of that institution, and Dr. Lauritsen, and other members of the staff. It was during the period of its construction that nuclear fission was discovered in Germany.

The CHAIRMAN. Was that the Hahn discovery?

Mr. STRAUSS. The Hahn-Streserman-Meitner discovery. And subsequently, the large-scale production of those items, as byproducts of the atomic research undertaking by the Government, has made any such methods as I had undertaken obsolete. Those products are now not only available in substantial quantities for research and for therapy, but are being provided by the laboratories at Oak Ridge for that

purpose.

The CHAIRMAN. You say you became interested from the standpoint of the use of isotopes in cancer treatment and other fields. You say you are not a scientist. Did you become interested in them as a matter of philanthropy or public contribution, or public health? I am just concerned as to how a man who is a businessman became interested in these ethereal fields of physics.

Mr. STRAUSS. No, Senator. Physics had always been an avocation. Radiation was the particular field in which I was interested. And the matter focused, as it did, in that year, due to the fact that I lost both my parents with cancer within the preceding 12 months, and it seemed a proper goal to which I might direct my efforts.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not a matter of just pure curiosity, but I was concerned as to how a businessman would get vitally interested in this quite technical field.

Senator BRICKER. Just one question on that, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Bricker.

Senator BRICKER. The machine which you were developing along with Dr. Millikan: What was the name of it, again?

Mr. STRAUSS. A surge generator. It is simply a method of accumulating the charge and discharging it at one time.

Senator BRICKER. For the activating of different materials?

Mr. STRAUSS. For the purpose of producing particles at high electrical energies, which were used as missiles, as bullets.

Senator BRICKER. That was radioactive iodine and substances of that kind?

Mr. STRAUSS. Theoretically it is possible to make any number of substances radioactive. Iodine was the first, because it was well known that iodine was localized by the body in the thyroid gland, and cancer of the thyroid a relatively easily diagnosed form of cancer. Senator BRICKER. The iodine would attach itself to almost any such substance?

Mr. STRAUSS. The iodine would normally be secreted by the body in the thyroid. I might interpolate, here, Senator, that I am not a physician.

Senator VANDENBERG. You are making me nervous, though. [Laughter.]

Senator BRICKER. I am only interested to know whether the machine was in advance of the production of these radioactive substances.

Mr. STRAUSS. That was a primitive method of producing the substances in small quantity which are now produced in large quantity as a byproduct.

Senator BRICKER. As a byproduct?

Mr. STRAUSS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Admiral, as a man who has been extremely active in Government and in business and in the armed forces, I would like to have you state to the committee your present over-all conception of the present field of atomic energy, and to give us some generalized views of the approach of this Commission to the problem; your ideas of your duties as a member of the Commission; and any other matters along that line. I would like to explore your philosophy, if I can. Mr. STRAUSS. I might save the committee's time by associating myself with the views expressed by Mr. Lilienthal and Dr. Bacher. The CHAIRMAN. Would you want to go further, and have a discussion with Senator McKellar? [Laughter.]

Mr. STRAUSS. Well, I have no revolutionary attitude toward the subject at all. I can only say this: That the importance of it is such to me that I have been willing to sever all my business connections and cut myself off from a substantial income for the purpose of contributing what I may, what I am able, to the work of the Commission.

I think that is the best way of indicating my belief in its importance. The CHAIRMAN. I think that is true, and I think we can assume that you have done that. But I would just like to have you state in your own words your conception of the over-all field of our responsibilities, not only at this moment, but at least in the reasonably foreseeable future: what you believe this Commission should do, and how the Commission should act-in substantial generalities. If there are details, we may discuss those with you in executive session.

Mr. STRAUSS. Well, I consider, Senator, that this force and this art which has been developed is of a nature so remarkable and so revolu

tionary that it has been found by the Congress not to fit into the scheme of private enterprise to which we have been accustomed and upon which I have been reared. I regard the task of the Atomic Energy Commission as a high public trust: that of being in custodianship of that charge until those problems are resolved to the point where the American pattern can be applied to this subject as well as to any other branch of science or industry.

I recognize that until that occurs-and it is conditioned as well by further knowledge of the art as it is by the international situationwe will have to operate under these conditions; and we can only operate under these conditions in the closest liaison with the legisla tive body. I am encouraged by that part of the act which recognizes the experimental nature of the legislation and envisages the need for constant review and possible revision.

The CHAIRMAN. What is your opinion on this question of whether the major field of atomic energy at this instant is a weapon or not? I mean, what is your view on the emphasis?

Mr. STRAUSS. I think that is obvious, not only from the fact that that is the only demonstrated field, aside from limited fields of therapy, but from the condition of the world.

The CHAIRMAN. Then I take it that you are of the definite opinion that the distance we have progressed up to this moment has been largely in the weapon field?

Mr. STRAUSS. And will probably continue to be in that field as far as one can see ahead.

The CHAIRMAN. And you feel that potentially, in the future, weapon field may be greatly enlarged, as to the use of atomic energy?

Mr. STRAUSS. It may. One is also entitled to hope that it will be reduced.

The CHAIRMAN. Manifestly I am not suggesting that inevitably it will be enlarged, but it has as much possibility at the present time of being enlarged as of being reduced.

From that standpoint, what are your views with regard to the adequate protection of information in connection with liaison between those who are responsible for national security in an armed way, and this Commission to which you have been appointed?

Mr. STRAUSS. I think they should live in the same suit of clothes, if possible.

Senator VANDENBERG. That is close enough for me.

The CHAIRMAN. May I ask how you feel about the fundamental proposals of the so-called Baruch report or Baruch recommendations for the United Nations, on the world-wide control of the weapon end of atomic energy, and the other phases of it?

Mr. STRAUSS. I am in sympathy with them, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. By saying that you are sympathetic, do you mean that you approve the fundamental principles of the Baruch report? Mr. STRAUSS. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. And believe that they should be advanced and adhered to and adopted if possible?

Mr. STRAUSs. I do.

Senator BRICKER. Just one more question, if I may: Your interest outside of military applications has been primarily in the therapeutic value, in the field of medicine, rather than the industrial utilization?