that very theory, and I believe it was the consensus of opinion of those attorneys who studied the situation that it would be constitutional in New York for the tax commission to administer a net income tax. If we cannot get centralized control over any other kind of tax in New York but can get it over an income tax, it seems to me that a net income tax would be an improvement over the conditions that exist there. Other schemes have been or will be presented in the state of New York that are probably just as desirable as an income tax. Something ought to be done in that state. Whenever a case is presented where an income tax or any other kind of tax is going to make the situation better, it seems to me we can all afford to overlook some of the things in that particular law which are not as desirable as they ought to be. Here is another thing: Sometimes after a law is enacted certain attorneys, certain corporations, and certain individuals spend a great deal of time trying to find some constitutional objection, and spend more money in defeating the act than the tax under it amounts to for a long time. Very often the result is the overthrow of that particular law and then another law infinitely worse.

It seems to me what you ought to have is co-operation upon the part of the taxpayer as well as upon the part of the administrator.

PROF. T. S. ADAMS: I would like to have those remarks framed as coming from the representative of the General Electric Company.

MR. LAWSON PURDY, of New York: Just in order that it may not appear that all in New York agree with Mr. Zoller, I would like to go on record that there are a good many people in New York who think we are better off there than in nearly any other state in the Union.

MR. CHARLES J. TOBIN: I will have to differ with Mr. Zoller, unless he is willing to agree that some of the items of personal property that are now exempt shall be brought in under an income tax. It is proper for an income tax to include those classes of personal property that have at no time paid any tax.

We have the serious question as to whether the classes of personal property made exempt under special acts shall be included or brought in under the proposed income tax. The big issue of income taxation in New York is whether it will bring about the needed reforms. The tax system of New York, built on laws enacted for revenue only, needs drastic but slow changes, more particularly not to continue the present unfair and inadequate system.

CHAIRMAN HOWARD: Gentlemen of the conference, you will remember I stated this morning that I had made up my mind to say a little upon the matter of public expenditures. I am going to take that advantage at this time and trust to Chairman Pomeroy, hoping that he will be a little liberal in looking at the watch.

I love the National Tax Conference. I believe that in the years to come the people of this country will be building monuments to Allen Ripley Foote and his associates who formed and have carried forward this conference. I can speak and make suggestions because I come from a state that is a living, live, throbbing being which has benefited by this association, so what I am going to say or the suggestions I am going to make will not, I hope, be taken as a criticism. What I want to speak about is the attitude of the taxpayers' association to public expenditures. Had I been put on the program to reply to that and not wished to take up much of your time, I should have said that if the members of the taxpayers' associations of this country, or the people of this country, stopped to give one moment's thought to the public expenditure of money, what they would say about it would not look well in print and we could not repeat it in front of our wives, our mothers, and our sweethearts. Why do I say that? Because I have made an analysis of public expenditures under certain conditions. This association has done a great work. But it does not make any difference whether the highwayman who takes away your money in a hold-up does it with a polished revolver or a loaded slingshot. I do not say that the taxpayers of this country have been robbed, but I want to give you an illustration or two, thousands of which could be

given. I recently made an analysis of the conditions in a certain state in this union and I found that over 1,100 men in that state were doing the same kind of work on different payrolls. I found that they had in that state a city health department, a county health department, a state health department, and a national health department, with the result that after we had obeyed all their orders the only fellow who was successful in his line of business as to health was the undertaker.

I

Then I found in that state, which is below the quarantine line, that we had decided it was necessary to protect the cattle. At any rate, I found this condition to exist. I found over 60 inspectors traveling about that state representing the state, at $100 a month and expense account, enforcing the quarantine laws. Then I found over 70 inspectors representing the national government traveling about that state, with a like salary and like expense accounts, enforcing the quarantine laws. I found these duplications all the way through. found another thing relating to the income tax in our state. We asked the national government to enact a law that would give to us a list of those paying an income tax to the government, so we could more economically facilitate our collections. Mr. Zoller told me that law went into the waste basket. I do not know why, unless it was that down there in my state they have men receiving $11 a day and expenses to find out who is amenable to the income tax law; and then as a state officer I pay others the same salary to look up the same facts. I could enumerate from now on until doomsday such conditions, and so I have been wondering if while we are scientifically taxing a man we could not scientifically spend his money. It has occurred to me that the legislature supply a remedy, but I found that the average legislator may have a man working in one of these duplicate departments, or he has a state institution in his district and cannot say much, so as to state expenditures we got little relief along that line. Then I thought as to national expenditures that perhaps our representatives in Congress might do something; but I found that they have many constituents and that about the only use they are, so far as the state is concerned, is to get home at campaign time

and get re-elected to Congress. I found that the only use of the United States senators was to repeat the actions of these congressmen, get us into a fight over the post office, and attempt to make themselves national characters.

My remedy for these matters is this, following the suggestions of our friend Mr. Howe, a man whom I know is interested in the people; that if this conference can broaden out and take up, along with scientific taxation, scientific expenditures we might accomplish some good. I want to suggest that to the conference. As to the increase of expenditures, let me illustrate: When I was a boy in Kentucky, if you had come down to that country and said you were going to teach manual training, the old town carpenter would have taken a hand axe and run you out of town. If you had come into that little town and said you were going to teach the girls how to sew and how to cook, the grandmothers would have looked over their specs at you and never darned a sock for you as long as you stayed there. Those things are right; I am glad they have come, but how far are they going? How far will the idealist and enthusiast in these special lines carry them? There must come a day in every state in the Union when a brake, so to speak, must be put on. Where are you going to put them on? I say to you that the record of this conference is such in taxation matters that it can help put on the brakes in matters of expenditure, if your constitution will permit it. If not, I suggest to you that there must be another Allen Ripley Foote rise to the emergency and organize in the United States a conference looking to the economical and honest expenditure of public money.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON RESOLUTIONS

MR. NILS P. HAUGEN: The Committee on Resolutions has had under consideration the resolutions referred to it and has reported back. I will read the first resolution reported back by the committee:

Resolved, That this conference recommend to the National Tax Association that the association co-operate with all responsible organizations interested in promoting economy and efficiency in government, and with all organizations engaged in promoting uniformity of state laws.

Resolved, That this conference recommend to the National Tax Association that the officers and executive committee of the association provide for the compilation, publication, and distribution of a thorough-going manual of assessment, with especial reference to the needs of minor civic divisions such as villages and towns, distribution to be free to all public officials.

Resolved, That we favor the establishment of closer relations with all business, trade, agricultural, civic, local improvement, and like organizations throughout the country for the promotion of a more general interest in all problems of taxation. To this end we hereby recommend that the officers and executive committee provide in their discretion for such headquarters staff as may be practicable and needful for the extension of the work of the association in this direction.

[Resolutions voted.]

MR. NILS P. HAUGEN: Here is the next resolution:

Resolved, That this conference commend the Bulletin published by the association during the past year and express