of arrivals over departures. (The figures given above exclude all persons who arrived or departed on transports.) My estimate assumes that there will be a further loss of Japanese by emigration and moderate gains for all others by immigration.

Mr. STOKES (interrupting). In regard to the statements made by Mr. Tsukiyama

The CHAIRMAN. We will be very glad to hear you later on, if you wish to address this committee, but I cannot permit these interruptions. I was exceedingly liberal this morning; I don't propose to permit that in the future. If it is a controversy with some other witness, the Chair will not recognize you. You can make a statement that is controversial to the statement of some other witness, but you will have to make it as a statement; we cannot have these interruptions..

Mr. STOKES. I have a statement that will be ready for presentation on Wednesday. Concerning a statement which was made by the Japanese themselves, I would like to say something.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the nature of the statement?

Mr. STOKES. It is in regard to the propaganda of the Japanese. The CHAIRMAN. Is it an article which you have read that you want to tell us about?

Mr. STOKES. It is the report of the Eighth Annual Convention of the American Citizens of Japanese Ancestry.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will be very glad to have you submit it and will have it put into the record, but if the statement is merely a controversy with another witness, I will not recognize you.

Fred Charles Hart requests recognition by the Chair, and it is granted.

Mr. HART. My name is Fred Charles Hart, homesteader from Nanakuli. I came here the first time in 1906 and liked this place and so returned. I have been here 7 years, and my viewpoint as an American citizen and as a man that fought for his country and will fight for it any time is that we should not have statehood. If you don't work for the big people, you just can't get anywhere. The sugar planters are running the whole shebang. The water was shut off at my place, and I came up to see about it, and they said that the sugar planters owned the water; they had control of it and the poor people don't get any. We found out they didn't know that the Territory gave the water to the H. S. P. A. Everybody is afraid of their job; if you belong to the big interests around here, you get somewhere; if you don't, you don't get anywhere. There are a lot of people opposed to statehood, but they are afraid to come here and say so. Mr. CANNON. Do you own your own place?

Mr. HART. Yes; and I pay taxes; not much, but I pay them.
Mr. CANNON. You own about how many acres?

Mr. HART. About a quarter of an acre.

Mr. CANNON. In your community, are there other landowners? Mr. HART. Yes; quite a few of them down there.

Mr. NICHOLS. Do you think those people would rather continue in their present status under a Territory than to become a part of the United States as a State?

Mr. HART. Yes, sir. A good part, I am certain. We should either have it as it is, where Congress can put their thumb on us any time they want to, or we should have a commission form of government.

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Mr. NICHOLS. Why do you think that your condition, which from your own statement is not good-would become worse under statehood?

Mr. HART. The H. S. P. A. can make any kind of wage laws they want to. Look at the A. A. A., they got the prices they wanted. Nobody is paying for me coming up here, I am only trying to get my rights.

Mr. NICHOLS. I am thoroughly in sympathy with what you have to say, but you haven't told me why you think your condition would be worse under statehood than it is now.

Mr. HART. Because the sugar planters and big business could put their own men into office and make laws to suit themselves. They will make some kind of wage law which would lower wages to a minimum.

Mr. NICHOLS. But they can do that anyway, can't they?

Mr. HART. Yes; but maybe Uncle Sam would step in and help us. Congress can do that now, but not if we are a State.

Mr. NICHOLS. Don't you think Uncle Sam would step in if you were a State?

Mr. HART. No; because Uncle Sam stepped in with the A. A. A. and fixed it up, and look at what he did.

Mr. CROWE. Are there a very considerable number of people, within your knowledge, who do not want statehood?

Mr. HART. Fourteen out of fifteen don't want it. You ask on the streets and you will find out about that. You ask some of these people who work for a living what they think about this, and you will find out, but they are afraid to come up here and talk.

Mr. CROWE. You mean 14 out of 15?

Mr. HART. Yes; 14 out of 15. We are skilled workmen, and the big bugs pay us wages not according to the federation in the States, and we know what that is.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you feel if you had statehood the federation wages would be reached.

Mr. HART. Yes; I do. Some of the States aren't as well off as we are here, though.

Mr. CANNON. If you think you are better off here, what are you kicking about; if you are better off than the States?

Mr. HART. Because we don't want statehood.

Delegate KING. You vote pretty well as you please, do you not? Mr. HART. I voted for you; yes, sir. [Laughter.] If they were

all like you, Sam King, I wouldn't be here.

[Laughter.]

The CHAIRMAN. I'd say that you voted pretty well. Mr. HART. Yes; I voted for a good man. Mr. CROWE. You made a statement a while ago that a lot of people were opposed to statehood and that they were afraid to come up to make a statement. You are positive you are right on that? Mr. HART. I hope to drop dead if I don't mean that. The man on the street don't want statehood.

Mr. CROWE. You mean businessmen?

here

Mr. HART. No; they want statehood; the big shots want statehood. I am talking for the little average man that produces: that makes the wheels go around. I am not talking about the kind that makes the profits. Now, when I hold up my hand and take an oath, that means something, doesn't it?

Mr. CROWE. It should.

Mr. HART. Well, about 2 years ago I had a case and went to a lawyer with it and he sent me to the judge and he told me I was fool for giving it to him and

a

The CHAIRMAN (interrupting). We will be very glad to hear anything you want to say as to statehood, but the committee is not concerned with any criticism of officials, and we will ask that you please do not be profane. If you have anything further to say on statehood, we will be glad to hear from you.

Mr. HART. Well, I just want to say the poor workingmen do not want statehood; it is the big shots that want it, and you can ask any of them on the street and you will find out about it. That's all I

have to say.

Dr. CRAWFORD. The question was raised a little while ago about the voting results of 1932. Mr. Raymond Brown, former secretary of the Territory, has some tables which he will be glad to file with you at this moment to put in the record for your convenience.

The CHAIRMAN. We will be glad to have them, Mr. Brown.

Mr. BROWN. I present here, first, certain tabulated figures pertaining to the voting strength of the various racial groups in the Territory, by precincts, from 1910 to 1934.

Also, Mr. Chairman, I wish to present some tabulated figures pertaining to the subject of reapportionment of representation in our legislature, a problem which is being given some attention now in connection with our discussions of statehood.

The following tables are self-explanatory:

Reapportionment of legislature

Reapportionment of the legislature on the basis of registered voters as at the general election of 1932

The CHAIRMAN. We will adjourn until 10 a. m. tomorrow morning. (The committee then adjourned at 3:30 p. m., to meet at 10 a. m. Oct. 8, 1935.)

STATEHOOD FOR HAWAII

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 8, 1935

SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRITORIES,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

CAPITOL BUILDING, SENATE CHAMBER,
Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii.

All members of the Congressional Committee on Statehood were present.

Mr. CROWE. The meeting will please come to order. The secretary has requested that members, when they take seats today, maintain that particular seat throughout the hearing, as it is much more convenient to get their questions.

The meeting will proceed today as yesterday, and the chairman in charge today will be Congressman Lundeen.

(Mr. Lundeen takes the chair.)

Chairman LUNDEEN. The committee will come to order. The first person to make a statement for the committee is President David L. Crawford, of the University of Hawaii, and I shall call on others whose names are submitted here today. If others desire to be heard, please address the Chair on coming forward. Dr. Crawford.

Dr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Chairman, members of the Congressional Committee, before making my address to your committee I wish to correct a statement which I made yesterday in presenting a list of names of members of the Citizens' Bipartisan Committee on Statehood. By an error the names of Judge Coke and former Governor Frear were included, and I am informed that they are not members. These names should not have been read.

The CHAIRMAN. Is our committee to understand that the persons whose names were presented yesterday as members of the bipartisan committee are all in favor of statehood?

Dr. CRAWFORD. To the best of my knowledge all are definitely in favor of statehood, except one (Mr. Pacheco) who says he is "neutral" but much interested in the question; one other favors a brief postponement of the granting of statehood; several condition their support of statehood on reapportionment of representation in the Constitutional Convention.

Yesterday I was speaking as chairman of our citizens' committee. This morning, with your permission, I would like to speak as an individual, as one who has been connected with education for a good many years; I came to the Territory first in 1917, and I have been in close association with the people during those years! I have seen a generation of young people grow up and establish their own homes, and in that time there has been a gradual maturing of thought on our problems of race relations, and of government, and so forth.