SENATE.] Compensation Bill. [MARCH, 1816. the location of the road laid out from the foot of the | to change the mode of compensation of the rapids of the Miami River of Lake Erie to the west- Senators, Delegates, and Representatives in ern boundary of the Connecticut Reserve, so that the Congress, was read the second time. said road may pass through the reservation of two miles square on the Sandusky River; and also, whether any and what further provisions are necessary to be made for the surveying and sale of the public lands adjoining on the aforesaid road. The Message and statement were read. The bill for the benefit of the widow and children of Robert Fulton, deceased, was next taken up: Mr. KING proposed to postpone it to Wednesday; Mr. ROBERTS to recommit it. Mr. TAYLOR moved to refer the bill to the Committee of Finance. Mr. BIBв opposed the reference. The principles embraced in the bill were not, he said, of a complicated nature, but such as might be determined without the formality of a reference to a committee. He confessed, that the bill was not exactly in the shape which he should prefer; but, as he thought it had decided advantages over the present system and rate of compensation, he should vote for it as it stood, and against any amendment which should be proposed. He should vote against any amend ment, he said, because of the peculiar delicacy of the subject; and considering that the bill had been proposed by the House of Representatives, so much the most numerous branch of the Legislature, he was unwilling to have any controversy with that House about it. Amendments might hereafter be made by a supplementary bill, if found necessary in the course of the operation of the system. Mr. TAYLOR said, that the course which he had proposed, was not different from that generally given to every bill coming from the House. It was the proper course to be pursued, for a variety of reasons: Suppose the salaries of other officers of the Government should be thought incompetent, the Committee of Finance might propose amendments to the bill calculated also to include them; for, he intimated, the passage of a bill to compensate ourselves alone, seemed to be too close an observance of the old but pithy adage, charity begins at home. In the little debate which took place, Mr. ROBERTS referred to the memorial this morning due to the delicacy of sentiment of the gentleMr. DANA said there was certainly something presented, as affording a reason why the bill should not pass, or at least should receive reman from South Carolina, which had induced consideration in committee; he also incidentally him to make this motion. It being at all times remarked that there was no such evidence of a matter of delicacy to act on questions concost in perfecting the invention, or want of cerning our own compensation, Mr. D. said he profit from the use of it, as would support the did not wonder that, in his anxiety to avoid claim for an extension of the patent, &c. To error on the one side, he should bend over too which Mr. KING replied, that the question of far in the other direction. In reference to the laws heretofore passed on these subjects, he the validity of the original patent was one wholly of a judicial nature; it was one in said he found it had not been thought at all regard to which Congress could neither take necessary to combine the compensation of Exaway nor confer privileges the bill could extend ecutive and Legislative officers; nor did he see no rights not vested by the patent, &c., and all why the members of Congress should measure questions arising out of the priority of inven- their compensation by that of other officers of the Government. This question was one sepation, &c., belonged and must remain with the courts of justice. Mr. WILSON favored commit-rate and distinct; it was a question of its own ment, though favorable to the extension of the character, he said, and ought to stand alone. He was, therefore, opposed to commitment in patent. order to amend the bill. Mr. KING having withdrawn his motion for postponement, the bill was recommitted to Messrs. KING, MORROW, DAGGETT, CHACE, and ROBERTS. TUESDAY, March 12. Mr. CAMPBELL said, as a member of the Committee of Finance, he was not aware that that committee could give any information to the Senate on the subject of this bill, which would enable it to act better than they could without it. The principle of the bill, he said, was a naked one, whether the compensation of the members should or should not be increased; the MARCH, 1816.] Compensation Bill. [SENATE. question in relation to the manner of compen- | Mr. M. said, they were equal. Each House had sation was also a single question. Mr. C. said on such a subject the same rights as the other. he felt in so great a degree the delicacy which The presumption was, and on that ground they had been adverted to, that he would not say ought to proceed, that if this House should much on this subject. As to the argument that make a bill from the other House better than the salaries of some other officers of Govern- as it came from them, the House of Representament require an increase, he was not disposed tives would concur in the amendment. This to deny the fact; but, in addition to the reply was the general practice; and, in adhering to that it was not necessary to connect that ques- it, he did not see how the Senate could be placed tion with the one now before the Senate, he in a delicate situation in relation to the other said the salaries of those officers had been House. raised since the compensation of the members of Congress had been fixed. Mr. C. did not rofess himself to be an advocate for the manof compensation proposed by this bill; he serious doubts on the subject; but he ight proper to state, that this measure, having been adopted by the other House, which is considered generally as immediately responsible to the people for its acts, and the members of which pride themselves on being the purseholders of the nation, it appeared to him that this House was relieved from the necessity of probing the subject as closely as it might other-imperfect, to insist on passing it, with a view wise be proper. Not, he said, that he thought that the Senate was at all bound by their vote, but in this respect the other House was at least as responsible as this. Mr. CHACE was also in favor of the commitment of this bill. He did not see, he said, why gentlemen should be ready to throw the burden of this measure (if a burden it was) on the shoulders of the House of Representatives. As regards the rate of compensation generally, every man must act on it, he said, from his own conviction. Mr. C. was himself clearly of opinion that_this bill wanted considerable amendment. It had been yet but a short time under consideration. He asked, whether it was a fair way of legislation, when a bill was manifestly of perfecting it by a supplementary bill, as had been intimated? Was it not best, he asked, to make the bill perfect at first? Why afraid, he asked, to approach a bill of this character? Why regard it as a measure bearing the injunction noli me tangere? The constitution and rules of proceeding, he admitted, did seem to give to the other House the power of originating money bills; but, on a question of this kind, he did not see why this House should not be under the same obligation as the other to examine critically bills of this kind. Mr. DAGGETT said, the question embraced by this bill was one which he should be always disposed to leave with the other House. He would not interfere, he said, to prevent that compensation which they should deem adequate to their services. He felt no reluctance in contending, and contending earnestly, with the House of Representatives, on questions such as that of the extent of the treaty-making power, Mr. SANFORD said, in the course of a few rethe expediency and amount of a land-tax; in-marks on this subject, that this bill should be deed, on any question of a general nature; but, treated as all other bills were. It was almost a he said, there was an innate delicacy in the matter of course on all bills to refer the subject Senate's undertaking to say that the House of thereof, on the motion of a member, to a comRepresentatives should not have a sort of con-mittee for examination. He wished to know, trol over questions like this. He was, therefore, disposed to take a bill of this nature, and pass it as soon as, according to the forms of the House, it could be done, and to have little said about it. as regarded his vote, what would be the effect The question on commitment was decided in NAYS.-Messrs. Barry, Bibb, Brown, Campbell, Condit, Daggett, Dana, Gaillard, Gore, Horsey, Howell, Hunter, Lacock, Mason of New Hampshire, Roberts, Talbot, Tait, Thompson, Tichenor, Turner, Wells, and Williams. Mr. MACON did not consider this as a question of compensation. The question now to be considered was, whether the bill was calculated to carry itself into execution. In this view it was necessary to commit it, rather than with a view to any facts or principles connected with it. The details of the bill ought to be examined, in order to see whether any rule could be devised which would suit better than that embraced by the bill. Gentlemen who considered this bill so perfect that it ought not to be touched, so plain that he who runs may read, would of course vote against commitment. He confessed that he had not himself that distinct view of it. What relates to ourselves, he said, ought more than any thing else be made so plain, that no The Senate proceeded to the consideration, in doubt could attend it. He should, therefore, Committee of the Whole, of the bill to change vote to commit this bill, believing it might be the mode of compensation of the Senators, Repimproved. As to the rights of the two Houses,resentatives, and Delegates in Congress. VOL. V.-30 And then, on motion, the Senate adjourned until to-morrow. WEDNESDAY, March 13. SENATE.] Compensation Bill. [This bill proposes to change the rate and mode of compensation, from six dollars per day during attendance to one thousand five hundred per annum.] Mr. TAYLOR, in proposing an amendment to the bill, said he was left, from the absence of reasons assigned in favor of the bill, to presume the motive of it to be, that there would be a greater despatch in the public business, if members were paid by the job than if they were paid by the day. He doubted the correctness of this inference. If, for six dollars a day, the sessions of Congress are spun out to an inconvenient length, and public business delayed by the desire of members to increase the amount of their pay, (supposing them the immoral agents which the adoption of this system presupposes) would they not, he asked, be induced by the change in the mode of compensation, in order to curtail their expenses and increase their profits, to go home before the public business is finished, or so urge the public business as to leave it in an imperfect form? Mr. MACON also moved to amend the bill so as to strike out the salary feature altogether and in lieu thereof to insert a provision that the compensation should be hereafter dollars per day intending that the blank might be filled with such sum as the Senate should prefer. He was opposed to the idea of a salary for legislative services; such a rule of compensation was not known under any of the governments of the States, &c. Mr. DAGGETT opposed all amendment of this nature to the bill; considering it better to take it in its present shape. The increase of com pensation, he estimated according to an average computation, would not be greater than as one hundred to seventy-one, &c. Was it worth while for this small object to enter into a controversy with the other House? He showed, besides, that the salaries of all the officers of Government (judges excepted, to his regret) had been increased since the compensation of the members was fixed, &c. [MARCH, 1816. or lessen the frequency of the sessions of Congress-and, on the whole, appeared to him less safe than the per diem provision. The amount contemplated by the bill be deemed too large. It would nearly or quite double the allowance which former Congresses had deemed sufficient, and under which present members had accepted their seats. It was a greater sum than many important officers under the General Government received for incessant service-and more than many of the States give to their principal officers. In New Jersey, not a single officer, excepting only the Governor, received a salary to this amount. The Judges of the Supreme Court, selected for their talents, experience, and integrity, from amongst our best and wisest citizens, and engaged, with little intermission, during the whole year in their arduous and important duties, received far less compensation than is here provided for members of Congress, who are employed in public business less than half the year. The precedent, Mr. W. said, he regarded as a very pernicious one. Raising our own pay, will be but an entering wedge to increasing the compensation of officers of the Government gener ally, civil, judicial, military, and naval. Though our charity begins at home, it will not be permitted to end here. This consequence he should deprecate. He did not consider high salaries consistent with the principles or safety of our Republican institutions-inasmuch as they tended to introduce, or to increase, ambition, intrigue, and corruption. The manner in which the bill was hurried through, was not, he said, in his opinion, less exceptionable than the bill itself. In the other House (if he might be permitted to allude to its course there) it was introduced one day, read and considered the next, and passed the third. In the Senate, postponement, commitment, and amendment, are all refused; and it is to be pushed through, by main strength, with a haste altogether unusual in cases so doubtful in their character, and so important in their consequences. On the whole, Mr. W. said, he did most earBoth the amendments above stated were neg-nestly hope, for these and other reasons which atived without a division. might be enumerated, that the Senate would reject this bill. Mr. WILSON observed, that he would not detain the Senate long, as he saw they were impatient for the question; but he felt it a duty to the prudent and economical State which he in part represented, to state his objections to the bill now before the Senate. This he should do as briefly as possible. In the first place, he disliked its retrospective operation, in going back more than a year to give an additional reward for services already rendered, and in many instances paid for. This principle he thought objectionable in itself, and dangerous as a precedent. An annual salary to legislators, who some times sat longer, and sometimes shorter, was a novel principle, and its effects very doubtful. It might produce an injurious haste in the transaction of business-it might shorten the term, No amendment having been agreed to, the President resumed the Chair, and the bill was reported to the Senate. On the question, "Shall this bill be read a third time?" it was determined in the affirmative-yeas 22, nays 11. THURSDAY, March 14. The Compensation Bill. The bill to change the mode of compensation in Congress, was read a third time. of the Senators, Representatives, and Delegates Mr. MASON, of Virginia, said he was ever reluctant to differ in opinion from the majority of the Senate for such a difference of opinion seldom failed to impress him with doubts of the correctness of that which he entertained. But on this occasion he was compelled to oppose the measure under consideration. [SENATE. many years in operation, and it was not till very lately that the compensation of the members was insufficient. He would prefer several modifications of the Mr. DANA also opposed the postponement. bill, but he had only one insuperable objection The only argument against it, he believed, was, to it, which was that it was retrospective, and that the passage of the bill would be unsatisfacimmediate in its operation. He considered it tory to the people. If the bill was proper in improper or indelicate (without meaning the itself, and there was any thing in this terror of least reflection upon any gentleman who advo- the popular disapprobation, it was a strong reacated it) to vote money out of the Treasury into son why they should not pause so long as was our own pockets. For all useful purposes he proposed; for, if once seized with a panic on was willing to impose taxes, and to vote money this question, the terror might perhaps by delay as liberally as any gentleman. But he consid - | become extreme. If this bill were justly dis ered the object of this bill to be of too mixed satisfactory to the people, he said, it might be a and doubtful a character to exempt its advo- reason to pause; but, for his part, he should not cates entirely from the suspicion of interested like to return and tell his constituents that he and selfish motives. He was very far from im- was afraid to vote for this bill lest it should be puting such motives to them. But it was not dissatisfactory to them. His constituents, he enough to do right. The Representatives of said, were not opulent, nor yet afflicted by povthe people should so conduct themselves as to erty; they lived at less expense than gentlemen be above the suspicion of unworthy motives. could do here; but, he said, he should manifest He was no Jacobin, and he would never act or no respect for their discernment, if he were to speak with a single eye to popular approbation suppose they could not see why members inand favor. But he respected the opinion of the curred greater expenses here than were necespeople, as every public agent should do; and sary at home. He should show little respect for although he would not do wrong to obtain their their disposition, if he supposed that they wished good opinion, yet he would always act as far as that the men whom they chose to represent he could, consistently with his duty, in such a them here should degrade themselves in order way as to meet their approbation. For, in a to live upon the compensation allowed, or should Government like ours, particularly, it was in sacrifice their private property in serving the vain to pretend to despise or disregard public public. It might be expected of the public opinion. It was not only the tenure by which agents to make sacrifices in times of great emerwe held our places, but it was the basis of the gency and national difficulty; but it would be Government itself. Take from the Government idle in ordinary times, to call on public men to that support, and what was now order and be patriotic to their own loss and injury. Albeauty would become despotism, or anarchy though, he said, the people of the State which and chaos. He should, therefore, always re- he represented were not as wealthy as they spect the opinion of the people, and endeavor were in some other parts of the country, he to obtain their approbation, as far as he could trusted they were not afflicted with that poorwithout a sacrifice of public duty. He admitted ness of spirit that they would deny their Reprethat the compensation of the members ought to sentatives a due compensation for their services. be increased. He thought it ought to bear the He had no hesitation in saying, that the prosame proportion to the expenses to which mem-posed rate of compensation was not too much bers are now exposed that it did to their expenses when the law fixing the present rate of compensation passed; and he had no doubt that the people would approve such an increase, for he had great confidence in their liberality and good sense. But he could not vote for the bill to take effect immediately. He would move to amend it, so as to postpone its operation until the expiration of the term of the present Congress; but he understood that such a motion had already been made, and rejected. And, as he could not obtain that modification of the bill, he was compelled to vote against it altogether. Mr. CHACE also opposed the passage of the bill on the grounds already taken against it. He could not consent to legislate in this manner. No person, he believed, had yet computed that the compensation hereafter to be given to the members of Congress would be less than ten | dollars per day, while Mr. C. computed that it would amount at a fair average estimate to seventeen dollars and a half per day, for each day they attended. This Government had been for any man who was fit to represent the people and State whom he had the honor, in part, to represent; and, however delicate the inquiry, he would not enter into a contest with his constituents about the correctness of their selection in sending him here. Mr. ROBERTS rose to defend his vote from the arguments of those opposed to the bill. He was duly sensible, he hoped, of the situation in which members of this House stood in relation to public opinion; but he knew not, on this subject, what public opinion was. This question was presented to him for decision without that light. There had been a feeling generally prevalent, as far as his information extended, that the present compensation of the members was not sufficient. It had been his conviction that it was better not to agitate this question at the present time; but the proposition had originated in the other House, which was at least as responsible to public opinion as this; and believing it not objectionable in principle, he felt it his duty to vote for it. If it were an un SENATE.] Increase of Salaries. [MARCH, 1816. The further consideration of the subject was postponed to Monday. FRIDAY, March 22. popular act, he said, its weight would fall on | Mr. FROMENTIN also strongly protested against the shoulders of those who voted for it-it interfering with the Judiciary, forcibly remarkmight occasion their removal from the public ing that blood followed from every the slightcouncils, by which it might be that the public est wound inflicted on that valuable instituinterest might be promoted; if so, he was will- tion, &c. ing to make the sacrifice. The proposed amount of compensation was perhaps too large; with the ideas of this subject arising from his humble situation in life, had he had the direction of this question, he should not perhaps have fixed it so high; but, he considered the two Houses, on this question, like a jury much divided on the subject before them, but obliged to decide upon something. On the ground of abstract right, however, without regard to the House of Representatives, he considered it expedient to pass the bill: it might be improved perhaps in detail, ing company in the District of Columbia shall [This bill provides that if any bank or bankbut the principle he considered as correct. refuse, after the first day of January next, to The question was then taken on postpone-pay its notes or checks with specie, by summary ment, and negatived. The question was then taken on the passage of the bill, and decided in the affirmative-yeas 21, nays 11, as follows: YEAS.-Messrs. Barry, Bibb, Brown, Campbell, Condit, Daggett, Dana, Gaillard, Harper, Horsey, Howell, Hunter, Lacock, Morrow, Roberts, Talbot, Tait, Thompson, Turner, Wells, and Williams. NAYS.-Messrs. Chace, King, Macon, Mason of New Hampshire, Mason of Virginia, Ruggles, Sanford, Taylor, Tichenor, Varnum, and Wilson. The question being then on the title of the bill, to change the mode of compensation of the members, &c., Mr. Varnum suggested that the title of the bill would be advantageously amended by making it "a bill to double the compensation," &c. MONDAY, March 18. The Judiciary. The Senate resumed the consideration of the resolve proposed by Mr. SANFORD, embracing an amendment to the constitution, to make the judges removable from office on the vote of twothirds of both Houses of Congress, with the consent of the President, &c. Mr. SANFORD proposed to refer the resolve to a select committee; but, subsequently, Mr. DAGGETT moved to postpone it to Wednesday. In the conversation respecting the mode of disposing of this business, some general remarks were made, of a decided character, by Mr. KING, against the object of the resolve, on the ground of its proposing to invade the independence of the Judiciary, so all-important and sacred a part of our constitution, that the Legislature ought not even to propose to disturb it. Mr. ROBERTS and Mr. SANFORD, in reply, took ground against Mr. KING's doctrine, which they argued placed the judges on an eminence more exalted than was consistent with the genius of our Government or the extent of our constitution, &c. This debate incidentally arose, and may be considered as merely breaking ground preliminary to the discussion which may take place on this question, if it is discussed at all. Banks to pay Specie. ed a bill to provide more effectually for the Mr. HORSEY, from a select committee, reportpayment of specie by the several banks within the District of Columbia. tained against them by the holder, with twelve process, judgment and execution may be obper cent. interest from the time of such failure or refusal, to pay such notes in specie, &c. But this remedy shall not be used by any bank, or bank agent, as a remedy against another bank.] Increase of Salaries. Mr. FROMENTIN, from the committee to whom the subject was referred, reported a bill providing for the increase of the salaries of the officers of Government therein mentioned, and the bill was read, and passed to the second reading. The report and the bill are as follows: The committee appointed to inquire into the expediency of increasing the salaries of all the officers of Government, beg leave to report That, from the most thorough investigation by them bestowed on the subject referred to them, they can have no hesitation in recommending an increase of salary to all the officers of Government mentioned in the bill which accompanies, and which they pray may be considered as part of this their report. By con tasting the prices of all the necessaries of life at the time at which the salaries of the officers of Government were fixed with the prices now to be given for the same necessary articles, your committee are satisfied that the expenses of living have been increased in a proportion much greater than the increase contemplated in the bill now submitted to the Senate. At the same time, therefore, that they were persuaded an addition was to be made to the salaries of the officers of Government, they entertained doubts as to the amount of augmentation which it might be proper for them to recommend, having a due regard both to the necessities of the officers to be provided for, and to the principles of a wise and prudent economy. From these doubts your committee feel themselves relieved by the principle of augmentation established in the act lately passed to change the mode of compensating the members of Congress. From the year 1790, when the Government first went into operation, to the end of the thirteenth Congress, it appears, by a reference to the journals, that Congress have been in session four thousand one hundred and forty-eight days; which number of days, divided by twenty-six, the whole number of |