but he thought, nevertheless, that their principles were, in their tendency, hostile to agrculture. As to the compliments of the honorable Speaker, the agricultural interest would have been much more indebted to him, if he had taken a few more members of the committee from South of the Potomac. Mr. CLAY again explained, as to the structure of the committee. The members were all either farmers, or persons decidedly attached to the farming interest. It was not always possible to observe latitudes, especially where the number of a committee consisted but of seven. Not one Western man had been put on it. The Committee on Manufactures, too, consisted almost entirely of farmers. Surely the gentleman from Virginia ought rather to suspect the soundness of his own views, than to set himself up as a standard, and arraign all who differed from him in sentiment. For himself, Mr. C. believed that the interests of agriculture would be prostrated, not if the bill did, but if it did not pass. Mr. Top, of Pennsylvania, (chairman of the Committee of Manufactures,) observed, that he had lived long enough to know, that not much was ever got by complaining-yet he thought he had some ground of complaint in what had fallen from the gentleman from Virginia. He had certainly attributed to the committee who reported the bill more sagacity than belonged to them-he seemed to think that they had laid this duty as a lure to attract folks-and he seemed determined to show that he understood trap, and would reject the bait as far as Virginia was concerned. If Virginia were only a wheat-raising State, this might be very magnanimous-but it happened that she exports double the value in tobacco, of all the flour and wheat not only exported from within her own bounds, but from all the rest of the Union beside. The amount of tobacco exported, (he spoke without book,) amounted to about six millions of dollars in a year. The gentleman, to show his contempt for the protection of this duty, says, take it away altogether-Virginia don't want it. But, if he wants to show his magnanimity and his contempt for protection, let him bring forward a proposition to allow tobacco, something that his constituents can understand, to be imported duty free. This bill only proposes to change the ad valorem to a specific duty, and what a bustle is created-what a trap is laid. Yet this is the only country in the civilized world that has not a specific duty on wheat. The amount imported, even seaward, is not so very small-three cargoes will probably amount to 20,000 bushels; so much of the market was lost to our farmers and those that brought it made money by the importation. Now the gentleman contends that it is a rule of trade to buy where we can get cheapest-let him bring this principle home to the farmer. Let that gentleman ask the yeomanry of this country, whether we shall bring wheat from Dantzic because we can get it cheaper they will soon answer him. Yet this would but fairly bring up and test the general principle of the bill with respect to manufactures—lead, wool, iron, are as plenty in FEBRUARY, 1824. this country, and as necessary in their place, as wheat, and why not as deserving of protection? The gentleman says, that the Committee on Agriculture should all be anti-manufacture menand because they are not, he says they are enemies to agriculture; if so, it was certainly good generalship, to put them down in a dark place where they can do it no harm. Mr. P. P. BARBOUR, of Virginia, rose to reply. He said he had not the least pretension to any thing like wit-it did not belong to him. Still less could he lay any claim to skill in trapping. Whether as trapper, or trappee, he desired to enter his protest against having any thing to do with it. He knew nothing about either trapping or tricking, but pursued a straightforward course as nearly as he could by a mathematical line of strict propriety. The honorable chairman of the Committee of Manufactures must have imagined for himself the idea which he had attributed to him, as he had never thought of imputing it to that committee. I said, and I still say, that this duty will not benefit the country. The gentleman has said that Virginia is a tobacco-growing country, and he has undertaken to give us a statement of the amount to which she exports that article, in which it is quite palpable that he spoke (as he said) without book. [Here Mr. Top explained, that he meant the six millions as the value of the whole export of that article in the Union.] Sir, said Mr. B., it happens that that my native State is richer in almost every thing than in money. The great embarrassment under which she labors is the want of capital, from whence it happens that many of the merchants of Virginia are mere factors for the merchants of New York. The tobacco, which swells the nominal amount of the exports of Virginia, belongs, in fact, to the exports of North Carolina-because that State, as was very truly and very handsomely said the other day, is "iron bound," as respects her coast. I also am without book, yet I think I can come nearer, within two or three millions, at least, than the gentleman from Pennsylvania did. The finest tobacco raised in Virginia, (I speak of that grown on the South mountain, where it is said the soil is peculiarly adapted to the culture of that plant,) may bring $10, and possibly $12 per cwt.; other samples sell at $2 to $3. The fair average is about $5 the hundred, which is about five cents a pound. This, according to the gentleman's first statement, would require Virginia to produce one hundred and twenty millions of pounds of tobacco annually. But whatever it amount to, I have not introduced any proposition respecting it, and simply for this reason I wish to pursue the subject before us, in other words to stick to the text. Now, tobacco has nothing to do with our present discussion. Besides, the chief part of the tobacco raised in Virginia, is raised south of James river, and I reside north of that river. In my district the great staple is wheat; and in whatever affects that article, my constituents are immediately concerned. I rose with the purpose of showing that the proposed duty is inefficient as an encourage FEBRUARY, 1824. The Tariff Bill. H. of R. ment to agriculture, and gives to it the form of agricultural staples, and this while the country is protection without the reality. suffering for a market? Surely it is the duty of the Government to protect the country against such an intrusion. Mr. TRACY, of New York, said, that although the duty now proposed might not, in the opinion of the honorable gentleman from Virginia, be of Mr. MARVIN, of New York, (a member of the any service to that State, there were gentlemen Committee on Manufactures) said, that since there I on this floor who represented other districts of had been some speculation as to the motives of the the Union, which grew far greater quantities of committee in putting this item in the bill, he wheat than the district from which that gentle- would state the circumstances under which it was man came, and whose opinions were worthy of done. A meeting of highly respectable agriculrespect. He thought that no duty could be more turists was held in Queen's county, on Long reasonable than that now under discussion, (un- Island, and resolutions were passed by them, reless the bill had been intended for revenue.) He commending an increase of duty on several artiknew that the amount of wheat imported from cles of agricultural production, and among others, the north and the south of Europe, from the Bal- the present article of wheat. And since the duty tic and the Black sea, was not inconsiderable; would, in the opinion of the committee, produce but, had the gentleman from Virginia reflected a no injury, they thought it due to the citizens of moment, he might have found one of the finest that very respectable meeting, to comply thus far wheat countries in the world, immediately adja- with their recommendation. Much wheat was cent to the State of New York-a country from imported last year-much more will be imported which wheat can be brought in abundance to next. Before the great canal was begun, wheat compete in the same market with that of the gen- was of the same value on both sides of Lake Ontleman's own district, and undersell him. To his tario. When wheat was worth one dollar and personal knowledge, 5,000 bushels were imported twelve cents at Albany, at Rochester it was worth by a single miller at Rochester the last year. It only fifty cents. The opening of the canal had sold in Canada at from 38 to 45 cents the bushel- raised it at once fifty cents. The price in Canada its transportation to Rochester cost from 15 to 20 experienced an equal rise. Was it good policy to cents, and it sold there at 70 and 75 cents a bushel, give this advantage to strangers and rivals, who while that raised in the State of New York was had contributed nothing to the expense of the selling at a dollar. It was floured at Rochester, canal? If we lay this duty, while the wheat of and sent to New York to compete with the wheat our own citizens feels a rise of fifty cents, that of from Virginia and Maryland. As soon as the their competitors will get only twenty-five cents great canal shall be finished to Lake Erie, another rise. And if they still prefer to use our canal, they large district of Upper Canada will be brought will come into our market under that difference in into the field of competition, and its wheat will our favor, and our revenue will at the same time go to that city without a single rod of land trans- be augmented. portation. For himself, he felt so entirely satisfied that the policy on which the present duty was founded was a correct policy, that he intended to move the adoption of a duty on imported flour. Of this article large quantities came in from Canada, and it was sold at Rochester at $2 a barrel, and he believed had, at one time, brought but $1 75, and this with a duty of 15 per cent. ad valorem. A single merchant, in Upper Canada, had sent to Oswego, last year, 3,000 barrels, and it went to New York for exportation. Was it sound policy thus to give away to strangers the benefit of those invaluable facilities which our own citizens had attained at so great a cost? Mr. MALLARY, of Vermont, thought that if this duty was perfectly nugatory because of no use to Virginia, the distinguished gentleman from that State only wasted his great talents in an attempt to abolish it. Why not indulge the friends of the bill in an item that he owned could do no harm, and which they believed might be of essential benefit in other parts of the country? Must Virginia be the sole standard according to which every measure is to be tested? It had been shown that great quantities of the Canada wheat came down the New York canal. Now the people of New York made that canal for themselves and the citizens of their sister States, and not for the subjects of His Majesty-shall we let in foreigners to compete with our own citizens in our own Mr. HAYDEN, of New York, replied to Mr. BARBOUR, and stated that the quantity of flour imported was greater than that gentleman seemed to imagine. Nor was it brought over the lake, as he had suggested for milling merely. It was within his knowledge that a single individual, an enterprising merchant miller at Rochester, had imported the last season 4,697 bushels, the cost of which, including freight and storage, averaged sixty-three cents a bushel. The duties came to over ten cents, the cartage cost him two cents, making the total price to him seventy-five cents per bushel, while, at the same time, the American farmer was getting from a dollar to one dollar and fifteen cents the bushel. He stated these facts from a demi-official paper furnished him by the collector of the port of Genesee. He did not doubt that, in ten years from this time, there would not be less imported into the single town of Rochester than 250,000 bushels. He then went into the following calculation to show the result: 250,000 bu. at $1, would pay for grinding $25,000 barrels, 50,000, at thirty cents - 15,000 25,000 25,000 $90,000 So that, looking merely at the manufacturing interest of his own district, he should view the proposed duty as injurious; but, regarding the agricultural interest, he believed it would be very beneficial. He, therefore, felt some hesitation in determining how to vote, but rather thought he should consent to the duty for the general good. It must be remembered that this wheat, when secured, went to compete with that of the Southern States. To give some idea of this trade upon the frontier, he stated that the exports from Rochester, alone, during the last year, had amounted to upwards of a million of dollars. Mr. Ross supported the propriety of the duty, and showed its operation in Ohio. He stated the embarrassments of the farmer in the interior, and the injury he would suffer, if foreign competition were superadded to his present want of a market; wheat had been sold in Ohio at eighteen cents a bushel; and he had known flour in Cincinnati to bring no more than $175. Mr. WEBSTER, of Massachusetts, said that it was necessary, on this subject, to legislate with great deliberation, and examine the probable effect of measures proposed for adoption. Imported wheat now pays fifteen per cent., ad valorem. New York exports great quantities of the article; to facilitate its transportation, she has, at vast expense, constructed a general canal. The inhabitants of Canada, finding this the most direct route to the ocean, come the same way. To meet the expense of that great public work, a large amount of tolls is required. The Canadians are glad to pay these, in addition to the fifteen per cent. duty. Now, he should certainly conceive that a transit trade of this description would be highly beneficial to the State of New York, while the duty paid upon it would, at the same time, aid the Treasury of the United States. The wheat is brought into the State, not for consumption, but for exportation. The consumption is in a foreign market. The New York wheat growers would not have that market, by denying their canal to the Canadian wheat grower. The Canadian wheat would still reach the same market, by way of the St. Lawrence, at perhaps a small addition of expense on the transportation. By admitting it, the State of New York not only gains the toll and storage, but the manufacturing of it into flour, and the shipping of it to a foreign market. The United States Treasury, the State Treasury, and the manufacturing and commercial interests, were all gainers by its transit. Mr. INGHAM, of Pennsylvania, said that the argument of the gentleman from Massachusetts had put the question on a new ground. The question now presented to us, was, whether the United States will promote the cultivation of its own territory, or of the territory of Upper Canada? He proposes to admit the citizens of Canada to an equal participation with ourselves in all our facilities for trade, while our citizens are kept out of Canada by laws that meet and prohibit them at every step. The natural advantages of the two banks of the St. Lawrence are nearly the same; the inducement for settlement on the one in pre FEBRUARY, 1824. ference to the other, will depend chiefly on the regulations of the respective Governments; and, important as are the interests of manufactures, the improvement of our land is still more important. The honorable gentleman from Virginia disre gards this duty, and is willing at once to give it up. If there were no existing duty, this might seem very magnanimous; but what does the gentleman give up? A duty of 2 cents, in addition to 22 already laid. This is all that he would give up, supposing ever so much wheat to be imported; but he tells us there is none imported, or next to none; he therefore gives up nothing, or next to nothing. The gentleman refuses a proposal to take off the duty on tobaeco, because other States, besides Virginia, are interested in raising it; but, are not other States concerned in raising wheat, too? Virginia has not the exclu sive dominion over the growing of wheat; and could she look beyond her own boundary for any thing else than political power, she might have discovered that her neighbors have some interest in such a duty, if she has none. The gentleman from Massachusetts speaks of transit tolls, and of mercantile commissions; but these are trifling compensations for facilitating to our own market abroad the access of our agricultural rivals. Will you, by facilities like these, encourage the seulement of the territories of a (hostile I must not say, but of at least a) foreign Power? Mr. VANCE, of Ohio, said that he was, unhappily, able to speak from personal experience on this subject. He knew, for he had felt the exist ence and operation of Canadian rivalry. He had shipped large quantities of flour and pork, and when he got to a market, had been there put down by the competition of Canadian shippers. The whole of the military posts of the United States, on the northwest of the Ohio, had been supplied almost exclusively by the people of Upper Canada. The gentleman from Massachusetts says that this flour is not for American consumption; and he is therefore willing to strike out the duty. But it is a fact that the British Government have for years past supplied the American Army with all its flour. When I took flour to the posts, hoping to find for it an American market, I found that the contractor uniformly drew his supplies from my neighbors on the other side of the lines. Upper Canada is in this respect a much more formidable rival to the United States than gentlemen seem to conceive. It is now, and will be more and more so, one of the greatest wheat growing countries in the world. Mr. BUCHANAN, of Pennsylvania, spoke in favor of the duty. Let the Canadian grain growers go down their own river. While our own farmers are struggling for a market, shall we bring stran gers into that market on a cheaper footing than they could otherwise get there, by the use of our facilities? Europe is now in profound peace; she can grow wheat enough for her own consumption, and that of her dependencies; she may soon go farther, and seek to get the supplying of us. Let us anticipate such an idea, and meet them with a duty at our threshold. INDEX TO THE PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE FIRST SESSION OF Accommodations for Congress, Mr. Dickerson agreed to, and the committee appointed Accountability of Public Officers. (See Public Accounts, Committee on, appointed message with a report from the Secretary a bill to regulate survey, &c., of lands in, read the second time laid on the table ordered to the third reading read the third time, and passed Mr. Kelly presented a resolution of the 132 132 78 81 95 102 102 Mr. Kelly submitted a memorial of the Le- reported without amendment laid on the table 133 593 616 656 746 Alexandria, Mr. Lloyd, of Maryland, presented a bill to amend the act for the establishment ordered to the third reading read the third time, and passed amendments received 151 209 234 318 323 448 |