SENATE.]

Indian Annuity.

[FEB. 3, 1831.

tween the Indians and the United States, in passing the the President of the Unitad States, to settle the disposibill in its original shape, as it came from the House, inas- tion of it. The same authority that constituted him a much as it would be giving an annuity of $6,000 without trustee, and enabled him to invest or transfer that stock, any equivalent for it. He had, therefore, introduced the would also authorize him to sell it, and make such disamendment to transfer the stock, which was now held posal of it as might be deemed expedient. for the use of the Indians, to the United States, inasmuch But there is another view of this subject, said Mr. F. as they required nothing more than the annuity, and the The letter from the War Department, just now submitted United States would be justly entitled to the stock for to us by the gentleman from Maryland, [Mr. SMITH,] guarantying it to them. Upon the tribe's becoming ex- informs us that the Holland Land Company, looking fortinct, the stock would, of course, revert to the United ward to the extinguishment of this tribe, contemplated, States; and it would therefore be better to transfer it at on the consummation of that event, setting up a claim to once than pursue the course originally pointed out in the this $100,000 of stock. They say it then belongs to bill. It would be simplifying what was complex; the them. Suppose, after our making this compulsory consubject would be put an end to; and the Indians and tract with the Senecas to pay them $6,000 annually, the the Government would be relieved from any further diffi- Holland Land Company should establish their claim to culties in relation to it. the reversion of this $100,000; in what light would the proposed measure be viewed, if adopted?

Mr. FORSYTH said he could not perceive the necessity of any legislation upon this subject. It is now, said Mr. F. concluded by repeating, he saw no sort of neMr. F., well understood that the Government of the cessity for further legislation upon this subject. If the United States has never received any benefit from the Indians were willing to take the product of their stock, Seneca tribe of Indians, for which this claim is made. as it is, in the three per cents., let them, in Heaven's The President of the United States has been made their name, have it. The matter, according to his views, laid trustee has assumed a guardianship, in which the Con- just where it should lay, and he hoped it might remain gress of the United States has no concern; and all he so. He, therefore, moved an indefinite postponement of has to do with it is to see that the stock entrusted to him the bill.

Is it

is vested in the best possible manner, and that they duly Mr. SANFORD said the gentleman from Georgia supreceive the amount accruing from it. There was a time posed that there was no obligation on the part of the Gowhen these Indians received more than six thousand dol-vernment of the United States to do justice to the Senelars per annum for their hundred thousand dollars worth ca Indians; that the fund belonging to them had been of stock; that is, when their fund was invested in Bank placed in the hands of the President, as trustee, in his of the United States' stock, when they received seven per individual, and not in his official, capacity. Pray, sir, cent. When their stock produced more than six thou- said Mr. S., how comes it, then, that this subject has sand dollars, the whole amount was paid to them; but, been brought before us by the President himself? since that stock had been less productive, since it had not to be found in his message of the last session, in been invested in three per cents, all that had been done had which he says he cannot do justice to these Indians withtended to impose on the United States a pecuniary bur-out the intervention of Congress? If the gentleman then. The terms of the contract were not, that the Pre- would please to refer to the message of the President, sident of the United States should see that the fund al-and the report of the Secretary of war, he would find ways yielded six per cent. per annum; but that he should that those officers of the Government deemed it a matmake the best disposition of it in his power; and this, it ter in which the United States was concerned. was admitted, had been done. There was then no further obligation on him, or on the Government. But it seemed the United States were considered as bound to these Indians, because the President of the United States had become the trustee of funds paid by the Holland Land Company for lands sold by the Indians to that Company.

The

The gentleman was mistaken in supposing that the trusteeship of the President imposed no obligation on the Government. The President, as the official organ of the Government, became the voluntary trustee. Indians sold their lands to Robert Morris, with the consent and approbation of the Government, and the Government voluntarily assumed the office of trustee for This matter had already cost the Government a very the safe investment of the purchase money. It was well considerable amount over and above the product of the known that it never was the practice of the Government stock, and now the question arises, are we bound to do to suffer any treaty to be held with the Indians without more, after doing all we have already gratuitously per- becoming a party to it; and, in the treaty held for the formed? But it is said the Indians have been given to sale of these lands, the agent of the Government attendunderstand that the full amount of six thousand dollars ed and sanctioned the whole proceedings. The gentleshould be paid to them. Who gave them to understand man from Georgia remarked, that the President might this? Who had a right to do so? And yet it was on sell the stock, pay the Indians their $100,000, and get such loose declarations that the whole merits of this claim rid of the business. Mr. S. did not know, but he be. seemed to rest. It is contended that the Government is lieved the Indians would be as glad to get their bound to realize to these Indians any expectations they $100,000, and get rid of the business, as the gentleman may have been induced to entertain. It is true, it is said from Georgia; that is, if they were to have no income. that the late President of the United States, when the they would rather have their money. But this could not subject was before him, had given them these assurances. be done without legislation. The President had preThis, however, did not establish the justice of the de- sented the subject to the consideration of Congress; and, mand. He could see no sort of obligation on the part of even if the Indians were to be paid back their money, the Government to pay them more than the amount pro- the action of Congress would be necessary. But it had duced by their stock. The original arrangement (which, been urged that various changes had been made; the by the way, he considered a very foolish one, though it money had first been invested in stock of the Bank of was made by the authority of Congress,) was to create the United States, then in six per cents., and lastly in three the President of the United States a trustee or guardian for the safe keeping of this fund of one hundred thousand dollars, which they had undoubted right to-it was theirs; and it remained between them and their trustee,

per cents. Suppose we refuse to pay the Indians, because of these changes; would that be just? Who made those changes? Not the Indians, but ourselves. investments were made by the trustee, according to his

The

FEB. 3, 1831.]

Indian Annuity.

[SENATE.

best judgment, without the knowledge or consent of the ment of the Indian title to these lands. A treaty was enIndians; and they were always contented as long as they tered into, and the lands were sold to Robert Morris for received what they considered a sufficient interest on one hundred thousand dollars, which was invested in the their money. Mr. S. then urged that the amendment stock of the old Bank of the United States. The whole was unnecessary; he hoped it would not be persisted in, matter was reported to Congress, and approved of by that inasmuch as it would again change the relations between body. By the terms of the treaty itself, the guardianship the United States and the Indians without their consent. of this money was invested in the political personage deAfter some further arguments in favor of the bill, and nominated by the constitution, the President of the United against the amendment, Mr. S. concluded, by expressing States. The arrangement did not contemplate entrusting his hope that the Senate would do full justice to the Sen- the money to a Washington and Adams, or to any other cca Indians, and not leave them in a situation to receive individual. It was, therefore, an act of the Government, only two or three thousand dollars interest on their capital, and an officer of that Government was made, cx officio, the when they had always been taught to believe themselves repository of the fund in question. And are we, the Gofairly entitled to an interest of six thousand dollars. vernment of the United States, to lead these poor savages Mr. FORSYTII said, perhaps he did not understand astray? Shall we take advantage of their ignorance, simthis subject so well as the gentleman from New York, ply because we have them in our power? Now, if there [Mr. SANFORD;] but he must repeat, that he did not yet is a principle on earth, said Mr. B., that I hold more sasee a necessity for any legislation on this subject. The cred than another, it is that the Government should act stock is invested at the discretion of the President, as the with magnanimity, justice, and equity, towards these savatrustee of the Indians. He is bound to render them an ges. The Government make treaties with them, in their account of it, and is ready to do so. He has the power to own form; they write them down, in their own way; and sell out the stock, and return them their money, if they shall we write articles of agreement with them in our own wish it. This would, probably, be the most simple and language, and interpret them to suit our own purposes? equitable method that could be adopted. At all events, God forbid! This stock, to be sure, was first invested in said Mr. F., we have nothing to do with it. He con- the stock of the Bank of the United States; but what did demned the foolish plan by which the President was in- they know of the nature of the Bank of the United States? volved in such guardianships. It was imposing upon him They supposed that, by the terms of their treaty, they had duties and responsibilities which did not rightfully pertain secured to themselves, and their tribe, a permanent fund to his station. The gentleman from New York supposes of six thousand dollars per annum. But how are their exthat there was an obligation on the part of the United pectations realized? I call it an act of the Government, States to guaranty that the stock yield perpetually the said Mr. B., as it undoubtedly is. The President is the annual sum of six thousand dollars. Where did the gen- agent, ex officio, and the fund is vested, in good faith, in tleman get that idea? He, Mr. F., could find nothing of the hands of the Government. Inasmuch as they have it in the documents belonging to the case. If the original done all this, shall we not preserve our faith towards them? contract was that the Indians should receive six per cent., What do they know of five or six per cent. stocks? It is why did they for so many years get seven per cent.? On utterly beyond their comprehension. Mr. B. said he the reasoning of the gentleman, the Government was as looked upon it as a mere matter of equity, that the Gomuch bound to give seven as six per cent. But the honor-vernment should be willing to abide by the rules which able gentleman says the subject has been brought to the she metes out to others. It was no more than just that notice of Congress by the President himself! Well, sir, she should allow the same rate of interest for debts due in so doing, the President has but done his duty. He from her, as she demands from those indebted to her. found, on coming into office, that his predecessor had From public debtors she exacts an interest of six per cent., been paying out of the coffers of the treasury $6,000, in- and I know of no better rule to be applied to the present stead of $3,190, without the shadow of authority; and case. Mr. B. also disapproved of the attempt on the part finding that the Indians expected a continuance of a prac- of the gentleman from Maryland, [Mr. SMITH,] to detice he could not sanction, he very properly brought the crease the amount to be paid to the Indians, as this seemaffair before Congress. Does any one, said Mr. F., ques-ed to be the purport of his amendment. He contended tion the correctness of the course pursued by the Presi- that the Government had already received this money. It dent in this matter? No one did. It had been admitted was already paid into the treasury, and he trusted that a on all hands to be perfectly correct. Well, sir, shall we, majority of the Senate would come to the just conclusion by legislation, sanction a proceeding which the President of guarantying to the Senecas a permanent annuity of six condemns? It is not pretended that the Government is in per cent. on their stock, or six thousand dollars per anany way bound, except by the guardianship of the fund so num, and thus preserve that justice, good faith, and scruthoughtlessly undertaken. But, at that time, these Indians pulous integrity towards them, which it was so essential were the wards of the United States; that wardship has to the national honor should be preserved. ceased, and they are now, with the exception of those Mr. WHITE observed, that he did not think it made going to Green Bay, under the guardianship of the State much difference to the parties, whether the bill passed as Mr. F. was for leaving the matter as it it came from the House of Representatives, or as amended stood. If the Indians were dissatisfied, it was not the fault by the gentleman from Maryland, [Mr. SMITH.] He, for of the Government. The same authority that vested the his part, would prefer the original bill, inasmuch as it stock in the President's hands, could authorize him to sell would, if it passed here with the amendment, be embar it. It would now bring one hundred and four thousand rassed, by having to undergo the revision of the other dollars. If they preferred the money to the stock, let House. It had been stated that, when the treaty was them have it. He did not know whether this would be held with the Seneca Indians for the sale of their lands, proper, but, for his own part, he would willingly vote for the agent of the United States was present, and sanctioned an appropriation for the purchase of the stock. If they the agreement by which the President became the trustee wish to sell, the Government has as much a right to buy for the disposition of the purchase money. This, he beas any other individual. lieved, was correct. The Indians being about to sell, and Mr. BIBB said, he conceived this to be a most just and wishing to make some permanent arrangement by which equitable claim. It accrued under the superintendence of the sum to be paid them should be safely invested, agreed the Government, by its agents, in the purchase of the In- that the President of the United States, not as an indidan lands. Massachusetts, New York, and the General vidual, but describing him in his official character, should, Government, were severally anxious for the extinguish- as their trustee, invest this money in stock of the Donk of

of New York.

VOL. VII.--6

SENATE.]

Indian Annuity.

[FEB. 3, 1831.

the amount produced by their stock? No, sir, such a claim would not be sustained for a moment.

the United States, to be held for their use, the interest on which to be annually paid them. This was done; and as long as the bank continued in operation, there was no If any gentleman here, said Mr. F., can show the slightdifficulty whatever. The Indians annually received their est obligation on the part of the Government to pay the interest, and were perfectly satisfied. But when the Senecas one extra dollar, he would be content. But it is charter of the bank expired, the President, without con- contended that they should receive the produce of their sulting them, but believing he was doing that which was fund. So they should, but no more. But we are bound the most conducive to their interests, vested their funds to pay them an interest of six per cent., says one. If we in United States' six per cents. This investment created were debtors, the argument might hold good; but the no difficulty, for the Indians still annually received an in- Government are represented, from the same source, in the terest which they conceived equivalent to the value of light of trustees. If the stock does not produce as much their capital. On the paying off, however, of the six per as they wish, the remedy must be found elsewhere than cents, the President, with the like good motives, again supplying the deficiency from the public coffers. One invested this Indian fund in United States' three per cents, President has gone on thus to fulfil their expectations, which not yielding the six thousand dollars per annum and shall we continue to do so against all law, and every they had been accustomed to receive, they became dis- color of law? The amount of money was surely of no satisfied. Then it was that they were assured by the Pre-consequence whatever; he could heartily wish these poor sident that they should lose nothing by this last invest- creatures had it; but he could not vote it to them at the ment; but that the difference between the interest on the expense of principle, and violation of the constitution. three per cents, and the six thousand dollars, would be The question was then taken on indefinitely postponing made up to them by the Government. On this assurance the bill, and lost without a division. the Indians were satisfied; and they continued to receive The question then recurred on the motion of Mr. SMITH, their six thousand dollars until the present administration of Maryland, to amend the bill by inserting a provision came into office, when the President not conceiving him- that the stock held for the benefit of the Indians be transself authorized to pay more than the bare interest on the ferred to the United States. stock, and the Indians refusing to receive that sum, the Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said that the effect of the subject was presented to the consideration of Congress. amendment was simply this: that the three per cent. stock, Under these circumstances, Mr. W. thought it would be now held for the benefit of the Indians, should become the expedient, as well as just, to grant the Indians' demands. property of the United States; while we bind ourselves, It would be hard, he said, by refusing to pass the bill, to said he, to pay to them, in perpetuity, the annual sum of disturb the understanding they had so long held of the six thousand dollars. It was precisely on the principle of matter. They had always looked upon the transaction, a tontine. The stock would be transferred to the United by which the trusteeship was created, to be the transac- States, and the Indians would receive annually their six tion of the United States, and would feel themselves hard- thousand dollars. They never could get more. The Prely dealt with if the Government, at this late period, took sident, Mr. S. thought, had done right in laying the suba different view of the subject. Whether the arrange-ject before Congress. Mr. S. could not conceive how the ment, when made, had been right or wrong, Mr. W. con- former President of the United States could feel himself ceived that the United States were now placed in such a authorized to give six thousand dollars per annum in lieu situation, that it became a moral obligation on them to of three thousand one hundred and eighty dollars, the infulfil the expectations of the Indians. As to any ultimate terest on the stock; but he did not care about the money; claim which the New Holland Company might make upon he believed it had been done with a benevolent motive, this fund, after the tribe became extinct, Mr. W. knew and he was glad that the Indians got the money. He wishnothing of it. If this company should be found to be just-ed to get rid of the business at once; and he believed that, ly entitled to the money, they would receive it; if not, it if his amendment prevailed, it would be the most advanwould, of course, remain the property of the United States. tageous arrangement, both for the United States and the After some further remarks, Mr. W. concluded, by ex- Indians. pressing himself highly in favor of the objects of the bill, which he hoped would pass without the amendment.

1

Mr. WHITE said, from documents which he had examined, it appeared that, when this tribe of Indians beMr. FORSYTH said he had already consumed more of came extinct, a claim would be set up by the Holland the time of the Senate on this subject, than he meant to Land Company to this sum of one hundred thousand dolhave devoted to it. But, after what had been said, parti- lars; and the disposal which we are now about to make of cularly by the gentleman from Kentucky, [Mr. BIBB,] in that stock, as contemplated by the amendment of the genrelation to a violation of the public faith, he felt bound to tleman from Maryland, [Mr. SMITH,] might not prove acreply. It seemed to him that gentlemen took an incorrect ceptable to that company, should their claim prove a valid view of the whole transaction. He could see no hardships one. Mr. W. thought the amendment would only emin the matter. It was a mere question, whether we were barrass the subject. Should the Seneca nation become to go on paying to these Indians an annuity, for which we extinct, we then have the stock in our hands, ready for receive no equivalent. We have received no bonds from such disposal as justice may demand. He conceived the them. The Government, if you please, acted as guardian Government to be placed somewhat in the situation of a for them, to prevent their being defrauded in their con- trustee who had violated his trust, and was compelled to tract with Robert Morris. This was the simple state of render an account, with legal interest. He thought it was the case, and it was impossible to read the original con- far better that we should pay the Indians much more than tract without so understanding it. The Government had their actual due, than that we should wrong them out of not only paid to them all that it was bound to pay, but it one cent. From these considerations, he preferred the had paid thirteen thousand dollars more than it was bound bill in its present shape.

to pay. The only question, then, now is, shall we con- Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said he certainly could not tinue thus to pay them, and overpay them? Because a vote for the bill in its original shape, though, if the amendPresident of the United States had chosen to create a ment prevailed, it would meet with his hearty concurrence. hope in the breasts of the Indians, that they should con- With respect to any claim the Holland Company might tinue to receive a certain sum, was that a reason for the hereafter make, it made not one doit of difference as to appropriation? Mr. F. said, suppose such a claim as this the present legislation of Congress. If that company came were set up by white people, instead of red ones, would forward with any claim after the extinction of the tribe, any one contend that they should receive one cent over its validity must be decided on by the Supreme Court;

FEB. 4, 1831.]

Pay of Members of Congress.--Post Office Department.

[SENATE.

and, if decided in their favor, it mattered not whether derly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, they were paid in stock or money.

Mr. SANFORD said, he believed the proposition of the gentleman from Maryland [Mr. SMITH] did not essentially vary the nature of the bill; but, as it had passed the other House in its present shape, he did not wish to see it retarded or embarrassed. He asked, what is this three per cent. stock? A debt that we owe. To whom? To ourselves. It is created with one hand, and paid with the other. He considered the amendment of no manner of importance; and he repeated the hope that it would not be made to embarrass the bill in its progress through the necessary stages of legislation.

Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, replied, that it was a matter of great importance. It was important, if the United States granted these Indians a perpetual annuity, that they should get something for it. If we give them, said he, the perpetuity of six thousand dollars, and the stock is transferred to us, we get something for it; otherwise, we get nothing.

The question was then taken on the first amendment, and it was rejected without a division.

The question was then taken on the second, a verbal amendment, "that the annuity shall be paid out of any moneys in the treasury not otherwise appropriated," and carried.

The bill was then ordered to be read a third time, by the following vote:

YEAS.--Messrs. Barnard, Barton, Bell, Benton, Bibb, Burnet, Chase, Clayton, Dickerson, Dudley, Ellis, Foot, Hendricks, Holmes, Johnston, Kane, Knight, Livingston, McKinley, Marks, Naudain, Noble, Robbins, Robinson, Ruggles, Sanford, Seymour, Silsbee, Sprague, Troup, White, Willey, and Woodbury-33.

NAYS. Messrs. Brown, Forsyth, Iredell, King, Poindexter, Smith, of Md., Smith, of S. C., Tazewell, and Tyler-9.

The remainder of this day's sitting was consumed in Executive business.

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 4.

expel a member. Whenever, therefore, it shall be deemed necessary by either House to exert the extraordinary power proposed in the resolution, it is under no necessity to resort to the other for aid to carry it into effect; and it is proper that it should be so: for it may be necessary and proper for one House to exercise this power, when it is wholly unnecessary in the other. The committee, not being informed of any necessity for its exercise by the Senate at present, and believing that when that necessity shall arise, it ought not to be exercised jointly with the other House, recommend that the resolution be rejected." The report was ordered to be printed.

POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT.

Mr. GRUNDY called up the resolution which he had submitted the day before yesterday, declaring the sense of the Senate, that the committee appointed to examine the present condition of the Post Office Department, were not authorized to call before them as witnesses the persons who had been removed from office by that Department, for the purpose of testifying as to the causes of their removal.

Mr. G. said he should not have troubled the Senate on this subject, if a real difficulty and serious difference of opinion had not arisen in the committee. He quoted the journal of the proceedings of the committee, from which it appeared that Mr. Abraham Bradley had been called before them; that Mr. HOLMES had proposed to interrogate him as to the causes of his removal from the office of Assistant Postmaster General; that, Mr. GRUNDY had objected to the question; and that on taking the vote of the committee, whether it should be answered or not, Mr. CLAYTON and Mr. HOLMES Voted in the affirmative, and Mr. GRUNDY and Mr. WOODBURY in the negative: Mr. HENDRICKS, wishing further time for consideration, did not vote; and the committee adjourned. Mr. G. remarked, that, upon being informed by the Senator who had not voted in the committee, that he should vote differently from him, [Mr. GRUNDY, he felt it his duty to appeal to the Senate for its decision. He had stated to the committee that he would not submit to the course proPAY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS. posed by the gentleman from Maine, should a majority of Mr. McKINLEY, from the Judiciary Committee, to the committee so determine, without first having the diwhom was referred the joint resolution relative to the pay rection of the Senate. Therefore, having the opinion of of members of Congress, passed by the House of Repre- the gentleman from Indiana, [Mr. HENDRICKS,] he had no sentatives, reported: "That the resolution does not ap- alternative but either to submit to what he considered a pear to be designed to regulate the compensation of very incorrect and unprecedented course of proceeding, members of Congress, but to create such penalties for or to offer the resolution under consideration. neglect of duty as will ensure their attendance in the re- Senate should decide against him, he could not say he spective Houses, and to compel an amendment of the would proceed cheerfully in discharge of the duty enrules of each House so as to effect this object. All legis- joined, but he would perform it diligently and faithfully. lative powers granted by the constitution, are vested in a He also quoted from the journal of the committee other Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a debated questions, which, from the votes on them, showed Senate and House of Representatives; and each House is a great want of harmony in their proceedings. He conseparately clothed with ample power to preserve its dig-sidered the inquiry now under discussion as beyond the nity and integrity, and to regulate its own conduct. By province of the Senate or the committee. This body had, the fifth section of the constitution, it is declared that each at the last session, expressed its opinion on the power of House shall be the judge of the elections, returns, and the Executive to make removals, without assigning to the qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each Senate the causes of them. He supposed the question shall constitute a quorum to do business, but a smaller had been settled. The cases then presented, were of a number may adjourn from day to day, and may be autho- character more plausibly requiring the causes to be asrized to compel the attendance of absent members, in such signed. The right to demand the causes was alleged to manner, and under such penalties, as each House may be, that as the Senate was united with the Executive in provide. Thus is the power of compelling the attendance the exercise of the appointing power, it should inquire of absent members conferred separately and exclusively into the reasons why an officer, whose appointment it had on each House, and ought not, as the committee believe, to be exercised jointly by both. Nor is it believed to be necessary to resort to the joint power of the two Houses, to make or amend the rules by which this object is to be attained: because, in the same section of the constitution, power is given to each House to determine the rules of its own proceedings, punish its own members for disor

If the

confirmed, had been displaced, in favor of the person whose nomination was then under consideration. This argument was overruled by the Senate's decision. And even this pretext, however plausible, does not exist in favor of the present inquiry.

If an examination is to be made into causes of removal, he conceived that more accurate information could be ob

SENATE.]

Post Office Department.

[FEB. 4, 1831.

tained from the person removing, than from the individual out the causes of such removals. But nothing of this removed. Cases might exist, in which delicacy towards kind had ever been contemplated by the committee. He the individual removed would prevent his acquiring a would take the opportunity, though he regretted to find knowledge of the causes that produced his removal. He himself compelled to do so at this time, to give a brief did not believe this mode of proceeding calculated to sc- statement of the facts as they had really occurred in the cure justice in the result. The committee is to call be- committee, in justice to those who were entrusted with fore it the very men who have been exasperated at the the inquiry. He should do this with reluctance, because head of this department on account of their dismissal, and, it would have been far better to have suffered them to in the absence of that officer, they are to make their ex have spoken for themselves through a report, as to all parte statements; and, without the advantage of a cross-examination, the committee is to make a report, decisive of the conduct and character of the Postmaster General; and the depositions thus taken are to furnish materials for partisan newspapers. He did not wish, as a Senator, to be thus employed.

their proceedings; but as the gentleman who had taken on himself to introduce the matter, had voluntarily disclosed a partial history of these transactions, and had reprobated the course pursued by some of his colleagues in strong language, he should feel it his duty, in the course of his remarks, to place those transactions before the It is true, the committee had sent an inquiry to the Post-Senate in a proper light, to illustrate the true state of the master General on this subject; this was contrary to his question pending before the committee, and to show judgment. His opinion was, that the Senate possessed whose conduct, in the language of that gentleman, was no constitutional power to make such inquiry. The Chief" either becoming," or "calculated to make improper Magistrate and the heads of departments, by the constitu- impressions."

tion and laws, have the power conferred on them to ap- In his opinion, the proposition contained in the resolupoint and remove the subordinate officers of the Execution was to repeal the power delegated to the committee tive branch of the Government. It is a matter confided by the former resolution, under which they were organizto their discretion. If this discretionary power should be ed. But the gentleman who offered it, from some of corruptly exercised, it would be the duty of the House his remarks, seemed to contend that its object was only of Representatives, the grand inquest of the nation, to to explain and construe that power. In its terms, thre institute an inquiry, collect the evidence, and bring the resolution was only declaratory--in substance, its design offender, by impeachment, before the Senate, in its judi- was, and its effects would be, to repeal an existing power, cial capacity. It would be unbecoming this body to be to smother inquiry, and baffle investigation. If it declared searching after impeachable matter, which, when obtained, what was erroneous in this respect, as he should attempt could not be acted on until the House of Representatives to show before he sat down, the Senate could not adopt it. should take up the subject, and prefer articles of impeach- It would seem, from this proposition, that great stress ment. Besides, this kind of investigation would disquali-had been laid by the committee on the causes of the refy Senators from acting impartially, should a case be pre-movals, to which it referred. The resolution seemed to sented for a judicial trial. It would be impossible to pre-carry with it the idea that this had been a principal, if not vent the minds of Senators from being influenced by the sole object of the investigation. Insinuations of this these previous investigations. He also considered it un-character had been dropped elsewhere, by those who dignified for this body, or its committee, to call on the knew best, and felt most deeply, how much a scrutiny Executive for the causes of removal, because, if obedience into the causes of these removals was to be dreaded. But to the call should be refused, there is no constitutional this was not the only important object which he had in power in this body to enforce it; and he viewed it un-view, when he introduced the original resolution to apbecoming in the Senate to make a demand without the point the committee. In explanation of his own object in power to coerce a compliance. submitting that resolution, he observed, that its aim and He had said thus much on the general principle, with-end were to inquire into the fiscal concerns of the departout any special reference to this particular case. He had ment, and to ascertain, if possible, the true cause of their no apprehension that any portion of the conduct of the decline. He had seen that, under the administration of Postmaster General, if the whole were examined, would the predecessor of the present Postmaster General, the be found to merit censure. He considered this whole finances of the department were in a most flourishing concourse of proceeding highly improper, and therefore dition; that by the report of the Committee on Retrenchasked the Senate to arrest it by the adoption of the reso- ment, in the other House, in 1828, it appeared that, under lution. his able superintendence, its funds had been brought up Mr. CLAYTON, (another member of the committee,) from an annual deficit of 58,000 dollars, to yield a clear observed, he was not aware, until the resolution was sub-revenue of 100,312 dollars, after defraying all the exmitted, that such a course as it proposed was contem-penses of mail transportation, and all the incidental explated; and he could not but express his surprise that it penses of the department. The department produced, at should have been resorted to without the knowledge of the period of that report, an excess of revenue more than the committee, especially as they had not yet come to any sufficient to defray all the burdens arising from clerk hire, decision on the subject-matter of the resolution. He con- the salaries of its officers, and its contingent expenses; sidered the proposition objectionable, because it had the although, according to established usage, appropriations effect to elicit a partial history of the proceedings of the for those purposes were annually made from the treasury. committee, before any regular report of those proceed- The department then bore its own weight, paid its own ings could be submitted to the Senate. But he was most way, and never made a demand on the treasury, to enable surprised by it, because it was calculated to give the pub-it to establish new post routes, when the exigencies of the lic very erroneous impressions respecting the conduct and country demanded them. This was what the people exgreat object of the inquiry. This resolution declared that pected, and had a right to demand from it; and, until the the committee were not authorized to call before them the present administration came into power, they had never persons who have been dismissed from office, for the pur-been disappointed in their expectations under any Postpose of ascertaining the causes of their removal. From master General. its tenor any gentleman would infer, that no member of the committee would have offered it, unless a disposition had been evinced by them to call before them a great number, if not all, of the persons who had been removed from office by Mr. Barry, numerous as the cases were, to sift

Indeed, the predecessors of the present incumbent had actually paid into the treasury of this nation upwards of one million one hundred thousand dollars; and, in reply to an interrogatory put to him by the Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads, in the other House, at the last