INVESTMENT IN ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT

Mr. NORRELL. How much do we have invested, if you know, in mechanical equipment of the electrical type?

Mr. ROBERTS. Well over $2 million, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. NORRELL. How much do we have invested in electric typewriters?

Mr. ROBERTS. That would be included in the previous figure, Mr. Chairman. That is what I was speaking of-electrical, mechanical equipment.

Mr. NORRELL. Is the table on page 13 limited solely and exclusively to electrical equipment?

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir, it is.

WORKLOAD OF REPAIR TECHNICIAN

Mr. NORRELL. How many jobs did the one man you now have on repairs perform last year, if you know?

Mr. ROBERTS. I have the exact record of that, but I do not have it with me now.

Mr. NORRELL. You do not know?

Mr. ROBERTS. I have the record and I could give it to you in a few minutes, but I will furnish it for the record.

Mr. NORRELL. You will furnish it for the record?

Mr. ROBERTS. I will be glad to supply it to the committee.

(The matter referred to follows:)

During the past 6 months the repair technician made an average of 75 calls per month which were actually recorded, however, unless substantial work was done on a machine the call was not recorded. It should also be pointed out that in some instances a complete overhaul job is done on a Robotyper machine and it is listed only as one call.

NUMBER OF ELECTRIC TYPEWRITERS

Mr. NORRELL. On page 13 you say we now own 1,938 electric typewriters. How many did we own a year ago?

Mr. ROBERTS. It has increased very rapidly.

Mr. NORRELL. Why has that happened?

Mr. ROBERTS. Some of them are replacements and there is no limit on the committees outside of the House Administration Committee which controls that. A great many and, in fact, nearly all of the Members' offices are gradually changing over from manual machines to electric typewriters.

Mr. NORRELL. Do you keep a record of the typewriters that you send out to Congressmen?

Mr. ROBERTS. An exact record.

Mr. NORRELL. And you know exactly where they are?

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.

Mr. NORRELL. Have any been lost so far as you know?

Mr. ROBERTS. I think there was one electric typewriter lost.
Mr. NORRELL. How many?

Mr. ROBERTS. One.

COST OF PROPOSED SERVICE CONTRACT

Mr. NORRELL. If the House should adopt the service contract procedure that you have suggested, do you have an idea of the annual cost? Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.

Mr. NORRELL. Would you give us that information?

Mr. ROBERTS. Let me give you this information [indicating], Mr. Chairman. An IBM electric typewriter would cost $35 per year; the Standard typewriter, automatic, $35, and the Robotyper, $25, or $60 per year per unit; that is, with the typewriter and Robotyper.

If the machine is in the same location, the following discounts would be in effect: If you put 10 to 49 typewriters under a service contract, you get a 5 percent discount; from 50 to 99, you get a 10 percent discount; from 100 to 199 you get a 15 percent discount; 200 or more, you get a 20 percent discount.

Mr. NORRELL. If we adopted this service contract procedure, would you still need the second repairman you asked for?

Mr. ROBERTS. Not if we went into it 100 percent, but we intend, if we go into the service contract, to do that gradually and, for illustration, we would probably put in the older machines under service contract first and then the ones that are used on Robotypers, which receive the greatest wear and tear. But, I do not think we would ever go into it 100 percent. Therefore, we would need a technician to take care of the ones that were not under a service contract.

Mr. NORRELL. What percent do you think we would go into it? Mr. ROBERTS. At one time I thought I would consider putting all machines that are on Robotypers under contract and all machines that are from 3 to 5 years of age under contract.

COST OF SERVICING ENTIRELY BY HOUSE EMPLOYEES

Mr. NORRELL. If the House should decide to do its own repair work, how many people do you think you would need and what would the annual cost be?

Mr. ROBERTS. Well, I can only compare it with the Senate. They have about six or seven technicians. But, Mr. Chairman, in the first place we do not have the space to do the work and, it takes a large inventory of parts. We would have to carry a tremendous inventory of parts.

Mr. NORRELL. Well, of course, we are trying to determine which method would be cheaper.

Mr. ROBERTS. We have considered going into the service contracts gradually and see how they work and see whether we are getting value received. Once you set up your own shops, you cannot stop. You are in that business forever, but in a service contract you can always cancel that contract. You can go into it for 6 months or for even 3 months or a year and then you can drop it. But, if we set up our own shops, we are in that business forever.

Mr. NORRELL. All right. Proceed.

ANNUAL AUDITS OF THE GAO

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. Chairman, before leaving the Clerk's Office I would like to advise the committee that every office under the Clerk

which is involved in the expenditure of funds has been audited annually by the General Accounting Office. I have for the scrutiny of the committee the latest reports covering each office, if you desire to look them over. They have found no serious deficiency in any of the offices, and I assure you that any suggestions made by the Comptroller General have received very prompt attention by me.

Mr. NORRELL. I wish you would give us this report the latest report of the GAO.

Mr. ROBERTS. On which department, Mr. Chairman? On all of them?

Mr. NORRELL. I think we should have all of them.

Mr. ROBERTS. Well, here [indicating] is the recording studio report. Here [indicating] is the stationery room and here [indicating] is the disbursing office report.

Mr. NORRELL. Let the committee clerk have the reports.

Mr. ROBERTS. Here [indicating] is also an inventory of the stationery room.

Mr. NORRELL. All right.

Mr. ROBERTS. I might add, Mr. Chairman, that they found no serious deficiency in any of the offices, and I assure you that any suggestions made by the Comptroller General have received my very prompt attention.

Mr. NORRELL. At that point, you say no serious deficiencies have been found?

Mr. ROBERTS. That is right. I do not think you should use that word "serious" deficiencies. I do not think that is a good word.

Mr. NORRELL. It is your word. You used it. I merely repeated. it in a question. Can you tell us what they did find?

Mr. ROBERTS. They have made a few administrative recommendations, Mr. Chairman. They are very excellent reports.

Mr. Bow. The prepared statement also says: "No serious deficiency."

Mr. ROBERTS. Well, I do not think

Mr. Bow. This expression "serious deficiency"-I had underscored myself, because when you refer to deficiencies, it means that there are some deficiencies but you do not consider them serious.

Mr. HARPER. Well, that is a bad choice of words. There are no deficiencies in connection with money. In each report they comment on the operation but they found no deficiency of funds.

Mr. ROBERTS. There were no shortages and no deficiencies.

Mr. Bow. Do you have reports on the folding room?

Mr. ROBERTS. That is under the operations of the Doorkeeper of the House, Mr. Bow.

Mr. Bow. I thought you were testifying for all of these people today. Is the Doorkeeper coming in?

Mr. ROBERTS. I said in my opening statement, Mr. Bow, that any specific questions relating to other departments, that that individual would be called in.

Mr. Bow. I thought you were appearing for all of them.

Mr. ROBERTS. I am appearing for the overall presentation.

Mr. NORRELL. You have several lump-sum items in the appropriation request and the payrolls are shown in the committee print.

Are you using all the amounts provided for 1960, and are the sums set out in the committee print your best judgment as to how you will use these amounts next year?

Mr. ROBERTS. It is my best judgment that we will need this money. Mr. NORRELL. The answer is "Yes"?

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.

Mr. NORRELL. Are there any further questions, gentlemen, on the Office of the Clerk?

USE OF CLERK'S AUTOMOBILE

Mr. HORAN. Mr. Chairman, there was an item that appeared in the press which I think we should have the Clerk explain before we leave this item, and that is regarding the use of the car out of town.

Mr. ROBERTS. Well, I think that article was written by a man who sued the Clerk and the House of Representatives, to make all records public to him, and I think there was a lot of spite work in the article. When he was thrown out of court, on his suit and failed to coerce me to make all the records public in the stationery room, he wrote that article, as he said he would do. The committee, and the House of Representatives as well, will be happy to know that the Clerk, with the capable assistance of the Department of Justice, successfully defended, in court, the constitutional right of the House of Representatives to control its own papers. The court ruled out his complaint, dismissing his action, and he failed to make an appeal as is indicated by the following letter:

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, Washington, D.C., January 12, 1960.

Re Vance Trimble v. Roberts et al., civil action 920-59.

Mr. RALPH R. ROBERTS,

U.S. House of Representatives,
Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Trimble has not filed a notice of appeal from Judge Matthews' ruling of October 19, 1959, dismissing the complaint. Since his time to appeal has now expired, there can be no further litigation in this matter, and we are closing our file.

Yours very truly,

GEORGE COCHRAN DOUB,

Assistant Attorney General, Civil Division.
By (S) D. B. MACGUINEAS,
Chief, General Litigation Section.

Mr. HORAN. You were in Indiana, though, according to the report?
Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.

Mr. HORAN. Do you regard that as your personal car or as part of the furnishings of the Clerk's Office?

Mr. ROBERTS. A part of the Clerk's Office. The Rules of the House Say that the Clerk shall make or approve all contracts, bargains, or agreements relative to furnishing any matter or thing or for the performance of any labor for the House of Representatives. Therefore, I am the purchasing agent for the House of Representatives. I buy everything and make all contracts and sometimes my duties require me to be outside the city of Washington.

Mr. HORAN. I assume, then, you were on your way to Indiana to make a purchase?

Mr. ROBERTS. Well, I called on several vendors while I was out of the city.

Mr. HORAN. Did you have clearance from the House of Representatives when you went out of town?

Mr. ROBERTS. Why should I?

Mr. HORAN. Well, I assumed that your duties are here and if you saw fit to make an out-of-town trip in order to fulfill your duties, as you say, as a purchasing agent that you would at least clear it with the House Administration Committee or the Speaker or someone.

Mr. ROBERTS. I do that when the House is in session, but when the House is in adjournment, it isn't necessary.

Mr. HORAN. It should be done some way, but I assume that the duties of the Clerk of the House are in Washington, D.C., and activities by the Clerk of the House, other than in the District of Columbia, should be appropriately cleared. Certainly it can be done. You know where they live and you can reach them.

Mr. ROBERTS. I explained that that was during the recess of Congress and I do not know of any rule, interpretation, or law, that says the Clerk has to be here every day in the year.

Mr. HORAN. Well, you are not looking for an interpretation. You are doing the interpreting. I think it is a matter that ought to be cleared up because the car is not furnished to you as Ralph Roberts. It is furnished to the Clerk of the House of Representatives. Mr. ROBERTS. That is right.

Mr. HORAN. And, as an exact fact, I think the duties of the Clerk are here in Washington.

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Bow. Mr. Chairman, before you go on, I do not think this is a satisfactory explanation which has been given by Mr. Roberts.

I was not going to get into this, but why do you not tell us why you went to Indiana and who you saw and something about this trip? It seems to me we are entitled to know.

Mr. ROBERTS. Well, I went home. My home is in southern Indiana. Mr. Bow. You say you called on vendors who do business with the House of Representatives? Who were they?

Mr. ROBERTS. The Indiana Desk Co. at Jasper, Ind.

Mr. Bow. Were we buying desks at that time from them?

Mr. ROBERTS. We do. We buy them occasionally.

Mr. Bow. When did we buy the last desk from them?

Mr. ROBERTS. I would have to look it up, but I think it was in January or February.

Mr. Bow. Can you tell us anything more about this trip that was made and what it cost and the justification for it? I think the House is entitled to know and we do not have much information from what you have told us now except that it is probably none of our business. Mr. NORRELL. All right, gentlemen, now we commence on page 17, the first part of the page. We will proceed.

Mr. ROBERTS. I paid all the expenses of the car, if that would mean anything. The car would have been standing in the garage if I had not taken it. I furnished all the gas and oil for it.

Mr. Bow. That fact alone proves it was not an official trip.

Mr. NORRELL. You may proceed, Mr. Roberts.