The Examination of Dr. Benjamin Franklin, [before the English House of Commons,

in February, 1766,] relative to the Repeal of the American Stamp Act.

[Referred to, page 169 of Memoirs.]

Q. What is your name, and place of abode?

A. Franklin, of Philadelphia.

Q. Do the Americans pay any considerable taxes among themselves?

A. Certainly many, and very heavy taxes.

Q. What are the present taxes in Pennsylvania, laid by the laws of the colony?

A. There are taxes on all estates, real and personal: a poll tax; a tax on all offices, professions, trades, and businesses, according to their profits; an excise on all wine, rum, and other spirits; and a duty of ten pounds per head on all negroes imported; with some other duties. Q. For what purposes are those taxes laid?

A. For the support of the civil and military establishments of the country, and to discharge the heavy debt contracted in the last war.

Q. How long are those taxes to continue ?

A. Those for discharging the debt are to continue till 1772, and longer, if the debt should not be then all discharged. The others must always continue.

Q. Was it not expected that the debt would have been sooner discharged?

A. It was, when the peace was made with France and Spain. But a fresh war breaking out with the Indians, a fresh load of debt was incurred; and the taxes, of course, continued longer by a new law.

Q. Are not all the people very able to pay those taxes?

A. No. The frontier counties, all along the continent, having been frequently ravaged by the enemy, and greatly impoverished, are able to pay very little tax. And therefore, in consideration of their distresses, our late tax-laws do expressly favour those counties, excusing the sufferers; and I suppose the same is done in other governments.

Q. Are not you concerned in the management of the post-office in America?

A. Yes. I am Deputy Post-Master General of North America.

'Erroneously numbered 7, in Memoirs.

Q. Don't you think the distribution of stamps, by post, to all the inhabitants, very practicable, if there was no opposition?

A. The posts only go along the sea-coasts; they do not, except in a few instances, go back into the country; and if they did, sending for stamps by post would occasion an expence of postage, amounting, in many cases, to much more than that of the stamps themselves.

Q. Are you acquainted with Newfoundland?

A. I never was there.

Q. Do you know whether there are any post-roads on that island?

A. I have heard there are no roads at all; but that the communication between one settlement and another is by sea only.

Q. Can you disperse the stamps by post in Canada ?

A. There is only a post between Montreal and Quebec. The inhabitants live so scattered and remote from each other, in that vast country, that posts cannot be supported among them, and therefore they cannot get stamps per post. The English colonies too, along the frontiers, are very thinly settled.

Q. From the thinness of the back settlements, would not the Stamp Act be extremely inconvenient to the inhabitants if executed?

A. To be sure it would; as many of the inhabitants could not get stamps when they had occasion for them, without taking long journeys, and spending perhaps three or four pounds, that the crown might get sixpence.

Q. Are not the colonies, from their circumstances, very able to pay the stamp duty.

A. In my opinion, there is not gold and silver enough in the colonies to pay the stamp duty for one year.

Q. Don't you know that the money arising from the stamps was all to be laid out in America?

A. I know it is appropriated by the act to the American service; but it will be spent in the conquered colonies, where the soldiers are, not in the colonies that pay it.

Q. Is there not a balance of trade due from the colonies where the troops are posted, that will bring back the money to the old colonies?

A. I think not. I believe very little would come back. I know of no trade likely to bring

'The Stamp Act says, 'that the Americans shall have no commerce, make no exchange of property with each other; neither purchase, nor grant, nor recover debts; they shall neither marry nor make their wills, unless they pay such and such sums in specie for the stamps which must give validity to the proceedings. The operation of such a tax, had it obtained the consent of the people, appeared inevitable; and its annual productiveness was estimated by its proposer in the House of Commons, at the committee for supplies, at 100,000l. sterling. The colonies being already reduced to the necessity of having papermoney, by sending to Britain the specie they collected in foreign trade, in order to make up for the deficiency of their other returns for Britain's manufactures, there were doubts where could remain the specie sufficient to answer the tax.

it back. I think it would come from the colonies where it was spent, directly to England; for I have always observed, that in every colony the more plenty the means of remittance to England, the more goods are sent for, and the more trade with England carried on.

Q. What number of white inhabitants do you think there are in Pennsylvania?

A. I suppose there may be about one hundred and sixty thousand.

Q. What number of them are Quakers?

A. Perhaps a third.

Q. What number of Germans ?

A. Perhaps another third; but I cannot speak with certainty.

Q. Have any number of the Germans seen service, as soldiers, in Europe?

A. Yes, many of them, both in Europe and America.

Q. Are they as much dissatisfied with the stamp duty as the English?

A. Yes, and more; and with reason, as their stamps are, in inany cases, to be double?1

Q. How many white men do you suppose there are in North America?

A. About three hundred thousand, from sixteen to sixty years of age.2

Q. What may be the amount of one year's imports into Pennsylvania from Britain?

A. I have been informed that our merchants compute the imports from Britain to be above 500,000l.

Q. What may be the amount of the produce of your province exported to Britain?

A. It must be small, as we produce little that is wanted in Britain. I suppose it cannot exceed 40,000l.

Q. How then do you pay the balance?

A. The balance is paid by our produce carried to the West Indies, (and sold in our own islands, or to the French, Spaniards, Danes, and Dutch;) by the same being carried to other colonies in North America, (as to New England, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Carolina, and Georgia; and by the same, carried to different parts of Europe, (as Spain, Portugal, and Italy.) In all which places we receive either money, bills of exchange, or commodities that suit for remittance to Britain; which, together with all the profits on the industry of our merchants and

[The Stamp Act provides, that a double duty should be laid where the instrument, proceedings, &c. shall be engrossed, written, or printed, within the said colonies and plantations, in any other than the English language. This measure appeared to be suggested by motives of convenience, and the policy of assimilating persons of foreign to those of British descent, and preventing their interference in the conduct of law business till this change should be effected. It seems, however, to have been deemed too precipitate, immediately to extend this clause to newly-conquered countries. An exemption, therefore, was granted, in this particular, with respect to Canada and Grenada, for the space of five years, to be reckoned from the commencement of the duty. (See the Stamp Act.)]

2 [Strangers excluded, some parts of the northern colonies double their numbers in fifteen or sixteen years; to the southward they are longer; but, taking one with another, they have doubled, by natural generation only, once in twenty-five years. Pennsylvania, it is said, including strangers, has doubled in about sixteen years.]

mariners, arising in those circuitous voyages, and the freights made by their ships, center finally in Britain to discharge the balance, and pay for British manufactures continually used in the province, or sold to foreigners by our traders.

Q. Have you heard of any difficulties lately laid on the Spanish trade?

A. Yes, I have heard that it has been greatly obstructed by some new regulations, and by the English men of war and cutters stationed all along the coast in America.

Q. Do you think it right that America should be protected by this country, and pay no part of the expence ?

A. That is not the case. The colonies raised, clothed, and paid, during the last war, near twenty-five thousand men, and spent many millions.

Q. Were you not reimbursed by Parliament?

A. We were only reimbursed what, in your opinion, we had advanced beyond our proportion, or beyond what might reasonably be expected from us; and it was a very small part of what we spent. Pennsylvania, in particular, disbursed about 500,000l.; and the reimbursements, in the whole, did not exceed 60,000l.

Q. You have said that you pay heavy taxes in Pennsylvania; what do they amount to in the pound?

A. The tax on all estates, real and personal, is eighteen-pence in the pound, fully rated; and the tax on the profits of trades and professions, with other taxes, do, I suppose, make full half-a-crown in the pound.

Q. Do you know any thing of the rate of exchange in Pennsylvania, and whether it has fallen lately?

A. It is commonly from one hundred and seventy to one hundred and seventy-five. I have heard that it has fallen lately from one hundred and seventy-five to one hundred sixty-two and a half; owing, I suppose, to their lessening their orders for goods; and, when their debts to this country are paid, I think the exchange will probably be at par.

Q. Do not you think the people of America would submit to pay the stamp duty if it was moderated?

A. No, never, unless compelled by force of arms.

Q. Are not the taxes in Pennsylvania laid on unequally, in order to burthen the English trade; particularly the tax on professions and business?

A. It is not more burthensome in proportion than the tax on lands: it is intended, and supposed, to take an equal proportion of profits.

Q. How is the assembly composed? Of what kinds of people are the members; landholders or traders?

A. It is composed of landholders, merchants, and artificers.

Q. Are not the majority landholders ?

A. I believe they are.

Q. Do not they, as much as possible, shift the tax off from the land, to ease that, and lay the burthen heavier on trade?

VOL. 1.

A. I have never understood it so: I never heard such a thing suggested: and indeed an attempt of that kind could answer no purpose. The merchant or trader is always skilled in figures, and ready with his pen and ink. If unequal burthens are laid on his trade, he puts an additional price on his goods; and the consumers, who are chiefly landholders, finally pay the greatest part, if not the whole.

Q. What was the temper of America towards Great Britain before the year 1763? 1

A. The best in the world. They submitted willingly to the government of the crown, and paid, in all their courts, obedience to acts of parliament. Numerous as the people are in the several old provinces, they cost you nothing in forts, citadels, garrisons, or armies, to keep them in subjection. They were governed by this country at the expence only of a little pen, ink, and paper they were led by a thread. They had not only a respect, but an affection for Great Britain; for its laws, its customs, and manners; and even a fondness for its fashions, that greatly increased the commerce. Natives of Britain were always treated with particular regard; to be an Old England-man was, of itself, a character of some respect, and gave a kind of rank among us.

Q. And what is their temper now?

A. Oh, very much altered.

Q. Did you ever hear the authority of Parliament, to make laws for America, questioned till lately?

A. The authority of Parliament was allowed to be valid in all laws, except such as should lay internal taxes. It never was disputed in laying duties to regulate commerce.

1. [In the year 1733, 'for the welfare and prosperity of the British sugar colonies in America,' and 'for remedying discouragements of planters,' duties were given and granted' to George the Second, upon all rum, spirits, molasses, syrups, sugar, and panels, of foreign growth, produce, and manufacture, imported into our colonies. This regulation of trade, for the benefit of the general empire, was acquiesced in, notwithstanding the introduction of the novel terms give and grant.' But the act, which was made only for the term of five years, and had been several times renewed in the reign of George the Second, and once in the reign of George the Third, was renewed again in the year 1763, in the reign of George the Third, and extended to other articles, upon new and altered grounds. It was stated in the preamble to this act, that it was expedient that new provisions and regulations should be established for improving the revenue of this kingdom ;' 'that it was just and necessary that a revenue should be raised in America for defending, protecting, and securing the same;' and that the Commons of Great Britain, . . . . . desirous of making some provision ..... towards raising the said revenue in America, have resolved to give and grant to his Majesty the several rates and duties, &c.'—Mr. Mauduit, agent for Massachusetts Bay, said that he was instructed, in the following terms, to oppose Mr. Grenville's taxing system:—'You are to remonstrate against these measures, and if possible to obtain a repeal of the Sugar Act, and prevent the imposition of any further duties or taxes on the colonies. Measures will be taken that you may be joined by all the other agents.- Boston, June 14, 1764.'

The question proposed to Dr. Franklin, alludes to this Sugar Act in 1763. Dr. Franklin's answer particularly merits the attention of the Historian and the Politician.