and ample compensation made to them for the same, by the respective colonies in which such injuries or damages were sustained. America, towards farther defraying the expences of defending, protecting, and securing the same, and for amending such parts of the several acts of parliament relating to the trade and revenues of the said colonies and plantations, as direct the manner of determining and recovering the penalties and forfeitures therein mentioned.' It was afterwards proposed to leave out the word 'repeal,' and insert explain and amend.' Upon which there ensued a debate. The question was put, whether the word repeal' should stand. Ayes 275; Noes 167. Then the question was put and agreed to. Proceedings in the Commons on the Bill to repeal the American Stamp Act.] February 24. The Committee of the whole House, to whom it was referred to consider of the several Papers presented to the House, relative to the Disturbances in America, on account of the Stamp Act, reported the following Resolutions to the House: 1. "That the King's Majesty, by and with the consent of the Lords spiritual and temporal, and Commons of Great Britain, in parliament assembled, had, hath, and of right ought to have, full power and authority to make laws and statutes of sufficient force and validity to bind the colonies and people of America, subjects of the crown of Great Britain, in all cases whatsoever. 2. "That tumults and insurrections of the most dangerous nature have been raised, and carried on, in several of the North American colonies, in open defiance of the powers and dignity of his Majesty's government, and in manifest violation of the laws and legislative authority of this kingdom. 3. "That the said tumults and insurrections have been greatly countenanced and inflamed by votes and resolutions, passed in several of the assemblies in the said provinces, highly injurious to the honour of his Majesty's government, and tending to destroy the legal and constitutional dependency of the said colonies on the imperial crown and parliament of Great Bri tain. 4. "That such persons, who, on account of the desire which they have manifested to comply with, or to assist in carrying into execution, any acts of the legislature of Great Britain, relating to the British colonies in North America, have suffered any injury or damage, ought to have full [VOL. XVI.] 5. "That the House be moved to resolve and declare, that all his Majesty's subjects, residing in the said colonies, who have manifested their desire to comply with, or to assist in carrying into execution, any acts of the legislature of Great Britain, relating to the British colonies in North America, have acted as dutiful and loyal subjects, and are therefore intitled to, and will assuredly have the protection of the House of Commons of Great Britain. 6. "That all persons, who by reason of the tumults and outrages in North America, have not been able to procure stamped paper, since the passing of the Act for laying certain duties of stamps in the colonies, ought to be indemnified from all penalties and forfeitures, which they may have incurred, by writing, ingrossing, or printing on paper, vellum, or parchment, not duly stamped, as required by the said act, under proper restrictions. 7. "That the House be moved, that leave be given to bring in a Bill to repeal an Act passed in the last session of parliament, entitled, An Act for granting and applying certain stamp duties, and other duties in the British colonies and plantations in America, towards further defraying the expences of defending, protecting, and securing the same; and for amending such parts of the several acts of parliament, relating to the trade and revenues of the said colonies and plantations, as direct the manner of determining and recovering the penalties and forfeitures therein mentioned.” The first of these Resolutions being read a second time, a motion was made for its being postponed; but, after a debate, the question being put, it was carried in the negative, after which the Resolution was agreed to; as were the 2d, 3d, and 4th, after being read a second time, without any opposition; and, after the 5th was read a second time, a motion being made accordingly, the House did resolve and declare in the terms thereby proposed; after which the 6th was read a second time, and agreed to; then the 7th and last, which had occasioned a debate in the Committee, but was therein agreed to by 275 to 167; and now upon the report, as soon as it was read a second time, a motion was made for its being recommitted; whereupon some part of the Act of the 5th [M] of queen Anne, chap. 8, for an union of the two kingdoms of England and Scotland, particularly the 18th article of that famous treaty, was, upon motion, read, and a debate ensued, but upon the question being put, it was carried in the negative; consequently a motion was in course made, pursuant to the said Resolution, and it was ordered, that leave be given to bring in a Bill to repeal an Act passed in the last session, for granting and applying certain stamp duties, &c. A motion was made, that the persons appointed to bring in the Bill do make effectual provision, in the said Bill, for preserving the just rights and authority of the British legislature, by directing all votes and resolutions of the assemblies of any of the American colonies, repugnant to the Baid rights and authority, to be erased and expunged, before the said repeal shall take place in such respective colonies. This brought on a new debate; but upon the question being put, it was carried in the negative by 210 to 133, chiefly on account of the next motion: which was, that a Bill or Bills be brought in upon the first and sixth of the aforesaid Resolutions. Then it was ordered that the 2d, 3d, 4th, and 5th, of the aforesaid Resolutions be laid before his Majesty; and it was resolved to address his Majesty, to desire, that he would be graciously pleased to give directions, that the said Resolutions be transmitted to the governors of his Majesty's colonies and plantations in America, to be by them communicated to the assemblies of their respective governments. The House having now continued sitting till after one o'clock in the morning of the 25th, they adjourned till next morning the 26th, on which day Mr. Fuller presented to the House according to order, a Bill for the better securing the dependency of his Majesty's dominions in America, upon the crown and parliament of Great Britain, which Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time the next morning and presently afterwards Mr. Secretary Conway presented to the House, according to order, a Bill to repeal an Act made in the last session of parliament, entitled, An Act for granting and applying certain stamp duties, and other,' &c. which Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time, also the next morning. Both Bills passed, and were carried up to the Lords. in America in consequence of the Stamp Act.*] February 10. The Lord Botetourt, according to order, reported from the Committee of the whole House, appointed to consider of the several Papers laid before this House, by his Majesty's command, relating to the late Riots and Tumults in America: "That, the Committee had considered the matters to them referred, and had come to the following Resolutions; viz. 1. "That the King's Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords spiritual and temporal and Commons of Great Britain in parliament assembled, had, hath, and of right ought to have, full power and authority to make laws and statutes of sufficient force and validity to bind the colonies and people of America, subjects of the crown of Great Britain, in all cases whatsoever. 2. "That it appears to this Committee, that tumults and insurrections of the most dangerous nature have been raised and carried on, in several of the North American colonies, in open defiance of the power and dignity of his Majesty's government, and in manifest violation of the laws and legislative authority of this kingdom. 3. "That it appears to this Committee, that the said tumults and insurrections have been encouraged and enflamed by sundry votes and resolutions passed in several of the assemblies of the said provinces, derogatory to the honour of his Majesty's government, and destructive of the legal and constitutional dependency of the said colonies on the imperial crown and parliament of Great Britain. 4. That it is the opinion of this Committee, that an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, to desire that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to give instructions to the governors of the several provinces where the above-mentioned tumults and insurrections have happened, that they should, in his Majesty's name, require of the assemblies of the said provinces to make proper recompense to those who have suffered in their persons or properties in consequence of the aforesaid tumults and insurrections: and to assure his Majesty, that this House will, upon this and all occasions, support the lawfu! authority of his crown, and the rights of parliament. * This important Debate is now first printed from a Manuscript in the Hardwicke Collection, obligingly communicated to the Editor by Debate in the Lords on the Disturbances the present earl of Hardwicke [▲. D. 1813.] | 5. "That it is the opinion of this Committee, that all his Majesty's subjects residing in the said colonies, who have manifested their desire to comply with, or to assist in carrying into execution, the act for laying a duty on Stamps, or any other act of parliament in the British colonies in North America, have acted as dutiful and loyal subjects, and are therefore entitled to, and will assuredly have the favour and protection of this House." The Debate arose upon the first of the above Resolutions, namely, "That the King's Majesty, by and with "the advice and consent of the Lords spiri"tual and temporal and Commons of Great "tain in parliament assembled, had, hath, "and of right ought to have, full power and "authority to make laws and statutes, of "sufficient force and validity to bind the "colonies and people of America, subjects "of the crown of Great Britain, in all "cases whatsoever." The Duke of Grafton, after lamenting the contrariety of opinion, on the first proposition, and observing that, in questions of this interesting nature, we ought to divest ourselves of all prejudice or attachment to one man or another, declared his opinion to be, that the Americans were as liable to be taxed as any man in Great Britain. And that therefore he should not have offered the first Resolution, but that the right had been questioned, not only by the Americans, but by persons here, some of whom were eminent, and possibly the highest in the line they tread. His grace then recommended lenient measures, as thinking the Americans deluded into an opinion that England had given them up. Lord Shelburne spoke next, who did not give any direct opinion on the right of parliament to tax America, though he seemed, from what I could gather of what he said, to insinuate that he was of that opinion. His lordship said, he thought it was highly necessary never to bring constitutional points into debate but in matters of the highest consequence. That the object of the present question seemed to him to be, whether we should, and how we should, restore tranquillity to America. Act, and by that means open commerce and restore tranquillity to America; or, 2dly, Whether they should enforce it, and throw every thing into confusion. His lordship mentioned his having been lately at Antwerp, where he learnt from some of the principal persons there, that this town had refused a tax 109 times, and upon speaking on this subject afterwards in Brussels, he was informed, that it had been agitated at Vienna whether they ought to lay a tax on the Netherlands, and it had been determined it was not expedient to do it. He applied this to the laying taxes on North America, and said, he did not choose in this situation of things to give a direct opinion on the point, but hinted at a protest if his lordship should differ in opinion with other lords. Lord Lyttelton begun with observing, that he agreed with the noble lord in opinion, that this question should never have been agitated, but why? because it has been already determined by the laws of this country. It was however first agitated in America, where the right was denied. In treating this question, I must tire your lordships with repeating many self-evident truths, but when persons of eminent knowledge and abilities dispute this point, I even doubt of my own reason. I shall therefore take the liberty of laying before your lordships a few general maxims, not of party, but such as no statesman, no lawyer, has ever denied. The first foundation of civil government is, that a civil society was formed by men entering into society on what may properly be called an original compact, and entrusting government with a power over their persons, liberties, and estates, for the safety of the whole. In what form or manner this power is to be exercised depends on the laws and constitutions of different countries. There cannot be two rights existing in government at the same time, which would destroy each other; a right in government to make laws, and a right in the people, or any part, to oppose or disobey such laws. Another great principle of policy is, that in all states, democratical, aristocratical, or monarchical, or in mixed states, as Great Britain, the government must rest someThat his opinion was, that when America where, and that must be fixed, or otherwas acquainted of what had past in Eng-wise there is an end of all government. land the first day of the session, there only remained two questions for the consideration of parliament. 1st. Whether they should repeal the Imperium in imperio.' But these great maxims which imply a subjection to the supreme government or legislature, do not exclude the existence of inferior legislatures with restrained thousands who have no vote in electing powers, subject to the superior legislature. representatives, will follow their brethren That the colonies are of this kind the in America, in refusing submission to any many statutes made here to bind them taxes. The commons of this metropolis since their first settlement plainly evince. will with pleasure hear a doctrine propa They went out subjects of Great Bri-gated last week, of equality being the natain, and unless they can shew a new com- tural right of all. pact made between them and the parliament of Great Britain (for the king alone could not make a new compact with them) they still are subjects to all intents and purposes whatsoever. If they are subjects, they are liable to the laws of the country. Indeed, they complain that the laying internal taxes on them takes away the right of laying such taxes: this I deny; they certainly may lay such internal taxes for local purposes, and the parliament here may lay such taxes on particular occasions. But it is said they will not submit to the Stamp Act as it lays an internal tax: if this be admitted, the same reasoning ex ́tends to all acts of parliament. The Americans will find themselves crampt by the Act of Navigation, and oppose that too. The Americans themselves make no distinction between external and internal taxes. M. Otis, their champion, scouts such a distinction, and the assembly shewed they were not displeased with him, by making him their representative at the congress of the states general of America. The only question before your lordships is, whether the American colonies are a part of the dominions of the crown of Great Britain? If not, the parliament has no jurisdiction, if they are, as many statutes have declared them to be, they must be proper objects of our legislature: and by declaring them exempt from one sta. tute or law, you declare them no longer subjects of Great Britain, and make them small independent communities not entitled to your protection. If opinions of this weight are to be taken up, and argued upon through mistake or timidity, we shall have many legislators; we shall have Lycurguses, and Solons, in every coffee-house, tavern, and gin-shop in London. The weight of taxes in England are heavy, and admit but this doctrine, many We have a constitution which, with all its faults, is a good one, but the doctrine of equality may be carried to the destruction of this monarchy. Cromwell himself did not attempt to say that taxes were to be raised without the consent of the legislature. Lord Camden.-I am very unhappy the first time of speaking in this House to differ from a lord of such superior abilities and learning, but the question before your lordships concerns the common rights of mankind; it is an abstract question, and will be judged of by your lordships gravely and deliberately, without any regard to the authority of any lord who speaks on either side of the question. My lords; he who disputes the authority of any supreme legislature treads upon very tender ground. It is therefore necessary for me in setting out to lay in my claim to your lordships, and to desire that no inference may be drawn from any thing I shall advance. I disclaim that the consequence of my reasoning will be that the colonies can claim an independence on this country, or that they have a right to oppose acts of legislature in a rebellious manner, even though the legislature has no right to make such acts. In my own opi nion, my lords, the legislature had no right to make this law. The sovereign authority, the omnipotence of the legislature, my lords, is a favourite doctrine, but there are some things they cannot do. They cannot enact any thing against the divine law, and may forfeit their right. They cannot take away any man's private property without making him a compensation. A proof of which is the many private bills, as well as public, passed every session. They have no right to condemn any man by bill of attainder without hearing him. But though the parliament cannot take any man's private property, yet every subject must make contribution. And this he consents to do by his representatives; when the people consented to be taxed they reserved to themselves a power of giving and granting by their representatives. The Resolution now proposed is in my opinion too general, as it gives the legislature an absolute power of laying any tax upon America. Notwithstanding the King, Lords, and Commons could in ancient times tax other persons, they never could tax the clergy. I have seen a record, 17 R. 2, of the Commons offering an aid to his majesty so as the clergy, who were possessed of a third part of the lands of the kingdom, would contribute a third part of the sum wanted. The clergy on that occasion said, that the parliament had no right to tax them, they might lay any part of the money wanted on the laity, and that they, the clergy, would | then do what they saw just. And so late as in the year 1674 the clergy in convocation insisted on a right to tax themselves, and this right was recognized by the Com mons. At present the clergy have dropt that right; when, I cannot pretend to say, but when they did drop it they were melted down into the body of the country, and are now electors of their own representatives. The counties palatine were little feudal governments exercising regal authority. The method was, for the crown to require them by writ to tax themselves. Tyrrel mentions some records of writs of that kind directed to Chester. It appears, however, that afterwards the legislature took to itself the power of taxation over these counties palatine, but then when they petitioned to be represented the parliament readily granted them representatives. It is observable, that at the close of the charter erecting Lancaster into a county palatine there is a salvo of the right to the parliament at large. And the great lord Hale, in a MS. never printed, which treats of the prerogative of the crown, observes, that this was a county palatine, without the requisites of Chester and Durham, particularly as to the power of taxing and pardoning. in the before-mentioned MS. where he says, that he thinks no acts here can bind the Irish in point of subsidies. But, my lords, even supposing the Americans have no exclusive right to tax themselves, I maintain it would be good policy to give it them.-America feels she can do better without us, than we without her. He spoke then to the expediency, and concluded that his opinion was, that the colonies had a right to tax themselves, and the parliament not. Lord Chancellor Northington. I did not think I should have troubled your lordships on the subject of this 1st Resolution, but, upon doctrines being laid down so new, so unmaintainable, and so unconstitutional, I cannot sit silent. I have, my lords, this day heard a paradox in every law that I know of. I thought indeed, when I came into the House, that the proposition endeavoured to be supported by the noble lord, would have been rather more modified than it has been by a heated imagination, accompanied by a facility of expression and readiness of language. The noble lord lays it down that the Ame. ricans have an exclusive right to lay taxes on themselves, and thinks that we are not to meddle with them. What, shall it be said that one man alone could subdue all North America, and that his authority not overruling, the parliament of Great Britain cannot retain it? My lords, it is impossible to endeavour to prove a self evident truth. Every government can arbitrarily inpose laws on all its subjects; there must be a supreme dominion in every state; whether monarchical, aristocratical, democratical, or mixed. And all the subjects of each state are bound by the laws made by government. But the noble lord has endeavoured to distinguish between the civil power of government, and its casuistical power. Now, Wales, my lords, was not taxed till it my lords, there is no writer on general was united to England, when it was forth-law but what agrees in this principle, that with represented. Calais and Berwick, when they were conquered, sent members to parliament. Guernsey, Jersey, and the Isle of Man are not yet a part of the realm of England, and have never yet been taxed. Ireland was conquered originally, but was settled by the English. They tax themselves, and the parliament here has no right to tax them; lord Hale affirms this every legislature should make laws for the benefit and safety of the whole; but suppose they make a law contrary to this principle, a resistance to such law is at the risk of life and fortune. As to what the noble lord says, of the clergy not having been taxed, the instruments he alludes to are commissions from the king to the laity and the clergy to tax themselves. |