Mr. STUART. I have yielded the floor a good many times to-day, and am willing to yield it a good many times more; but I should have got through long ago with what I had to say if Senators had allowed me the privilege. I have not the slightest disposition to raise any controversy here in the Senate; on the contrary, I intend to exert every power that I have to prevent it. Upon this point I wish to suggest to the Chair, in obedience to his own request, that every question of The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair has de- taken from the Chair on an appeal to the Senate, order, either put by the Chair to the Senate, cided that question.

Mr. GWIN. I desire to ask whether, when there is a quorum present-and the last vote showed thirty-nine Senators to be here-it is in order to move to send for absent Senators? Mr. JONES. It is not.

is debatable in the very nature of the question. There is a provision in one of our rules that a question of order is to be decided, without debate, judge of the elections, returns, and qualifications by the Chair, but that means a question whether of its own members, and a majority of each shall a Senator is in order in debate; it does not mean constitute & quorum to do business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may called to order the Chair is to decide the question any other question of order. When a Senator is be authorized to compel the attendance of absent whether he is in order or not. It is also provided members, in such manner and under such penal-in the same rule that the Chair may submit the

from the at there s 3, 15.-8825 wheste ith rule. ne, and

question of order to the Senate. Does not the
Chair see that the moment a question of order is
submitted to the Senate each Senator is at liberty
to give his reasons for his vote upon it? The Chair
has that right. When the Chair is called upon to
decide a question of order, there is no human power
that can prevent him from stating the grounds on
which he decides it. You would stultify him if
it were otherwise. So, when an appeal is taken
to the Senate each Senator is called upon to vote,
and he is not to vote sub silentio. He has a right||
to state the grounds on which he bases his opin-hardly be able to keep ourselves within that rule.
ion; and, therefore, the Chair will see at a glance
that, without restriction, every appeal from the
President to the Senate is debatable.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair will suggest to the Senator that he has not decided that it is not debatable.

Mr. STUART. So I understood; but I also understood the Chair to say that he desired the opinion of some Senators on that question, and it was in obedience to that suggestion that I was giving my opinion.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator desire to debate the appeal?

Mr. STUART. Yes, sir.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair will hear the Senator.

Mr. STUART. I do not desire to detain the Senate on this topic. I am satisfied that the ground assumed by the Senator from Virginia is correct; that the motion made by the Senator from New Hampshire itself is not in order; that it is not a power which attaches to any portion of the Senate, unless there is not a quorum present. The Chair will allow me to say further, with great respect, that I do not think he had any power to cause the roll to be called. The Chair can do what the rules authorize him to do. The eighth rule, read by the Senator from Virginia, authorizes the Senate, when less than a quorum is convened, to take measures to bring in the absentees at their own expense. That is the extent of their authority. Now, sir, upon this question

The VICE PRESIDENT. Will the Senator allow the Chair to interrupt him with a suggestion?

Mr. STUART. Certainly. The VICE PRESIDENT. The motion of the Senator from New Hampshire, in the language in which it is now put, is simply that the Sergeant-at-Arms be directed to request the attendance of absent Senators. Does the Senator from Michigan think there is any objection to the mo

tion in that form?

Mr. STUART. I do not. The VICE PRESIDENT. That is the motion before the Senate.

Mr. STUART. Now, sir, the Senator from Missouri moves to lay that motion on the table. The Senate may refuse to agree to the motion of the Senator from New Hampshire, but I submit to the consideration of the Chair, that a motion which connects with it no papers, no substance, no subject, cannot be laid on the table, any more

than a motion to adjourn can. I know there is another reason connecting itself with the motion to adjourn; but it is a mere motion. A motion to adjourn over to a particular day, or anything that rests on a mere motion, connecting itself with no bill, no papers, nothing that is substantial, cannot be laid upon the table. I was about to say-and it is really all the desire I had on this subject-that I made an effort to-day, and I should like to make it again, to have the Senate come to some understanding by which we shall progress In some mode that will correspond with the dig

ity of the Senate.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Will the Senator suspend for a moment? The Chair must request Senators on all sides to preserve order. The buzz the Chamber is so great that the Chair cannot tear the Senator from Michigan. Senators will good enough to come to order. Mr. STUART. I was about to say that I dethat there shall be some arrangement made, understanding in the body, by which we hall proceed with this discussion in a manner corresponding with the dignity of the Senate and be importance of the question; and so long as the

permitted to proceed, so that each Senator may
be heard, and heard at a proper time. I should
be glad to have that done; I should be glad to
make any arrangements to perfect it; but, sir, I
have no purpose-and I beg to say to the Chair
and to the Senate, that whatever may result from
this controversy, I hope to be able to maintain a
proper feeling myself, and a proper respect for
everybody. It is obvious, however, that if this
course of proceeding is to go on, a mere question
of endurance at this stage of the debate, we shall
Hence it was that I desired that no decision
should be made either by the Chair or the Senate
in the haste or under the excitement of the occa-
sion, which might be deemed improper hereafter;
and it was for that reason, and that alone, that I
took the appeal at this time, and with great reluc-
tance, for it would give me vastly more pleasure
to sustain the Chair, than to overrule him on any
occasion; but I insist that it is not in order to
move to lay a mere motion on the table.

Mr. MASON. I wish only to add a word to
what has fallen from the Senator from Michigan.
My impressions strongly are that he is right in his
suggestion that it is not in order, in the Senate at
least, to move to lay a motion on the table. I think
there is such a practice in the House of Repre-
sentatives. How it arose there, I do not know:
whether it is under rule or under usage; but I do
not recollect of any proposition in the Senate to
lay a motion on the table. I have been confirmed
in that impression by a recurrence to the Manual,
which is a part of our rules; which, with the per-
mission of the Senate, I will read, as it is very
brief:

"When the House has something else which claims its present attention, but would be willing to reserve in their power to take up a proposition whenever it shall suit them, they order it to lie on their table. It may then be called for at any time."

That refers altogether to propositions; it cannot refer to a motion. In my recollection of the usage of the Senate, I have never known a motion made, or to prevail if it were made, to lay a mere motion on the table.

Mr. GREEN. Mr. President

SENATE.

motion is a proposition. Every resolution is a motion; every motion is a resolution; and there is no distinction between them. If any member of the Senate chooses to require that that proposition be reduced to writing, it must be put in the shape of a motion. There is, therefore, no distinction, no question between the Senator from Michigan and myself. The Senator from New Hampshire moved a certain proposition, I moved to lay that proposition on the table. He says that a motion to lay another motion on the table cannot be entertained because that may be reconsidered and taken up at any time.

Mr. STUART. No, sir.

Mr. GREEN. What then? So of the motion to reconsider; and I have heard him move to reconsider a vote that has been taken; and when that motion to reconsider has been made, I have also heard him move to lay that motion on the table. Here is a motion laid on the table, and it has been the uniform practice of the Senate.

On the other question of order I shall not take one moment of time, for the reason that I esteem the decision of the Chair to be right, correct, and proper. With reference to the idea of the Senator from Michigan, that the Chair could not entertain the appeal because a motion to lay it on the table was out of order, that seems to me so in conflict with the ordinary practice of the Senate, so in conflict with the principles of parliamentary law, that there can be no difficulty on that subject. Any proposition, any motion, any order, anything pending before the Senate, may be laid on the table. You may present it in the shape of a motion, proposition, bill, petition, or anything else, and you may then move to lay it on the table. There is now a motion pending; and if I had chosen to exact it of the Senator from New Hampshire, he would be compelled to reduce it to writing in this from: "Ordered, That the Sergeant-at-Arms be directed to send for the absentees." That would be his resolution; that is his motion. The fact that I have not chosen to require him to reduce it to writing does not lessen my rights on the question pending before the Senate. When that resolution, proposition, or motion, is pending, I may choose to move to lay it on the table, and the Senate has the right so to order, there being a quorum present author

time of the Senate. I know the Senator from Michigan is mistaken in his point of order. I know that a motion and a resolution are really the same; that the one is reduced to writing, and the other may be reduced to writing, if any Senator so requires. They are the same; there is no distinction between them. I shall not consume time, but ask for a vote on the point now pending before the Senate.

Mr. HALE. What is the question before the Senate?

The VICE PRESIDENT. Shall the decision of the Chair stand as the judgment of the Senate?

The VICE PRESIDENT. With the leave of the Senate the Chair will very briefly state the grounds of his decision. The Senator from Newized to transact business. I will not consume the Hampshire moved that the Sergeant-at-Arms be directed to request the attendance of absent Senators. The Senator from Missouri moved to lay that motion on the table. The Chair decided the motion of the Senator from Missouri to be in order. From this decision the Senator from Michigan appeals. The question is, whether the motion of the Senator from New Hampshire was of a character which could be laid on the table. The Chair considers the word "proposition" in the clause read by the Senator from Virginia to be of very broad significance and covering a motion. A motion is a form of proposition. It is a question. It was under debate. The question was, shall the Sergeant-at-Arms be directed to request the attendance of absent members? It is not for the Chair to say that it is not in the power of the Senate to declare that they will lay aside, for laying on the table is nothing more than laying aside the consideration of that question, proposition, or motion, to wit: directing the Sergeant-at-Arms to request the attendance of absent Senators. There is a rule of the Senate which the Chair supposes to bear somewhat on this point. "When a question is under debate"-the word is very broad-"no motion shall be received but to adjourn, to lie on the table, to postpone indefinitely," &c. The Chair thinks that the effect of voting to lay this motion on the table is nothing more than the expression of the purpose of the Senate not to consider at

this time the motion or proposition of the Senator
from New Hampshire to direct the Sergeant-at-
Arms to request the attendance of absent mem-
bers. This is the ground of the decision. The
Chair will put the appeal.

Mr. GREEN. I merely wish to remark that
all I had to say has already been said by the Chair,
and said in a manner more clear and explicit than
I could possibly say it myself. I made a motion
to lay a proposition on the table. The Chair
entertained it. A question of order was raised

Mr. SEWARD. I understood that the Chair had invited the opinion of Senators on the question whether the appeal from the Chair was debatable.

The VICE PRESIDENT. There seems to be a general understanding in the Senate, several Senators, without contradiction, stating that it had been the custom of the body to debate appeals, and the Chair therefore listened to debate.

Mr. HALE. I was going to say a word or two, because I do not wish to see a bad precedent set

now.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair has heard debate on the appeal, and he will hear the Senator from New Hampshire.

Mr. HALE. I wish to thank the Senator from Missouri for not compelling me to reduce my motion to writing. [Laughter.] That is a little favor.

Mr. GREEN. I know the Senator is not a good scrivener, and therefore I excuse him.

Mr. HALE. If he had insisted on it I should have asked the clerk to write it for me. [Laughter.] But, sir, I want to be serious. I do not want a bad example set here at this time. I think a decision or an intimation sustained by grave Senators that an appeal from the decision of the Chair is not debatable would be

whether a motion could be laid on the table. A and very alarming to the liberties of the Senate.
very dangerous,

The VICE PRESIDENT. Did the Senator suggestion or two to the Senate, if one so humble from Michigan vote in the affirmative?

moved to reconsider the vote by which the prop-in point of time by this attempt. It will engender

osition was ordered to lie on the table. That bad feeling; we make a bad exhibition of ourselves motion will be entered on the Journal and can be before the country. In any point of view in which called up hereafter. The question now before the I can look at this matter, I can only see evil to Senate is the motion of the Senator from Massa- grow out of it, and no possible good. Now we chusetts, that the further consideration of this have consumed nearly six hours since the usual twelve o'clock. On that question the yeas and through. If we had adjourned at the ordinary subject be postponed until to-morrow at half past time of adjournment, and but one speech is partly nays were called for, but have not yet been or- time, I doubt not that the Senator from New Hampdered. The Chair will take the sense of the Sen-shire (Mr. CLARK] would make his speech, probate as to whether the question shall be taken by ably, in a couple of hours to-morrow; and now his remarks have been interfered with, and thereby prolonged. We have first one motion and then

selves to the other great interests of the Republic, to have a vote on this bill to-day. This notice was given in the usual form, according to the expressed will of the majority, the Democratic party, who are responsible to the country for the conduct of business here. That announcement was publicly made a week ago to-day, by the Senator who has the bill in charge. Notwithstanding that, we have been going on listening to a speech for an hour or an hour and a half a day, and then adjourning. This side of the House has always, without exception, at all times, voted for adjournments at the earliest hour.

We came here this morning with a view of carrying out the notice which was given a week ago; but we were willing to allow three more days, until Thursday next, if that would be accepted. The gentleman who has charge of the bill made that proposition to the Senators who oppose it; and some of them said it would take a month longer, and some said two or three weeks, and some jeered at what they pleased to term this interference with their rights. Sir, the country has rights. The majority have rights, and they have duties; and one of those duties is that the business of this country shall be done decently, and in order, and in due time; and I trust there is fidelity enough to themselves, and to their principles, and to their country yet in the majority of the Senate, to stand at all hazards, and crush this faction. [Applause in the galleries.]

The VICE PRESIDENT. Disorder cannot be tolerated in the galleries or upon the floor. Mr. FESSENDEN. I do not know that it will be quite so easy a matter to crush us.

Mr. TOOMBS. I did not say it was easy. Mr. FESSENDEN. I do not think it can be done. The Senator talks about new eras in the Senate. Sir, I think it is a new era when a Senator rises here and talks about crushing the minority in the Senate as a faction. I have had occasion to say before, and I repeat now, that,|| although a minority in this body, we have our rights; we understand that every individual member of this body has his rights. When the Senator talks about undertaking to crush us, I want to know by what process he intends to do it. We understand perfectly, sir, that we may be brought to a contest of physical endurance; and very likely if we are the Senator from Georgia may be able to endure more and longer than I can; but if we are brought to that, so long as we are able to stand here within the rules of the Senate, and so long as the Presiding Officer administers those rules firmly-and from what we have seen I have no doubt he will do so to the end-I want the Senator from Georgia, and every Senator, to understand that we shall not hesitate to do what we please, under the rules of the Senate, with reference to protracting this matter, until we see that we are to be treated fairly and honestly on this floor. Now, sir, what the Senator has said with reference to the course of the debate on this bill, I do not undertake to say, or to intimate that he does not understand to be so, but I will say that it is very contrary to my understanding, and to the understanding of the minority on this floor. have given notice to Senators, over and over again, that there was no disposition on the part of the minority here to talk for the sake of talking, that we had no disposition or wish to protract the time one hour or one moment beyond the period when we had an opportunity fully and fairly to express our opinions, and that we should have that oportunity unless the crushing process was underaken, and if it is, I am perfectly willing to go to he country with it, and that the country shall understand precisely how this matter stands; and t will be for the country finally to settle, and to ettle by votes, with reference to the question whether or not it will sustain men. The Senator from Georgia says that there have een arguments made on the Lecompton constiation ever since the 9th of December last-ever ince the commencement of the session. Why, r, I believe this subject was not acted upon in e Territory of Kansas until after that period. did not come here until the month of February. What were the questions which agitated the Sene? The first questions that agitated the Senate, ere questions that arose on the annual message the President. We debated that; we debated

I

the sentiments of that message; we debated the
recommendations of that message. I say "we,'
but it was not debated on our side of the Senate.
The debate arose on the other side, between Sen-
ators hitherto of the same political party and the
same political faith, though now differing. We
abstained day after day, week after week, I had
almost said month after month, but not quite so
long as that. We abstained until our constituents
complained of us for not expressing our sentiments
to the country on the questions thus presented.
We left the debate to the other side, and it was
kept there. Senators on the other side of the
Chamber exclusively debated that matter, day
after day. We hardly opened our mouths upon
it. We certainly took no time in regard to it. It
was the understanding that we should take that
course, and leave the question to be debated there,
until Senators on the other side satisfied them-
selves of their own position.

Then what was the next question that came up?
The President sent in his special message, and
upon that debate arose. In the mean time other
questions intervened. The Army bill was under
consideration for some weeks. That was debated
in the Senate day after day; and because occa-
sionally the question of Kansas was mentioned,
because, on the Army bill, we chose to debate the
effect of the measure upon Kansas, was that de-
bate on the Lecompton constitution? Sir, this
question of the Lecompton constitution has been
before the Senate but a fortnight, and I say, as a
matter of fact, that most gentlemen on this side
held back their speeches on the main question for
the single reason that they wished to debate it as
my friend from New Hampshire [Mr. CLARK]
has said he did, when a practical issue was be-
fore the Senate. I was not one of that number. I
said what I desired to say upon the President's
special message; but I was only one, and hardly
any one on this side followed my example. The
Senator from Connecticut [Mr. DIXON] delivered
a portion, I hope it was only a portion, of what
he had to say on another question, because he
was ready to debate it; but the main body of the
Senators on this side withheld the delivery of
their views until the question should come prac-
tically before the Senate, and they took no part
whatever in the debate before it did come here.

It has now really been before the Senate only two weeks. What have we done since? There has been only a single occasion when we adjourned over from Thursday to Monday; and there have been only two occasions, according to my recollection, when we carried an adjournment. One of them was a week day, long after four o'clock, the hour at which the Senate usually adjourns. The other was on Saturday afternoon last, when we had been debating the whole week, and when the Senator from Ohio, [Mr. WADE,] who had been out of health for a week or ten days past, his own strength being exhausted, requested the Senate to adjourn, and give him until to-day to finish his speech. This is the head and front of our offending. What have we been ready to say now? What I have said, privately and publicly on this floor, that all we demanded was, that every Senator on this side should have a fair opportunity, within reasonable hours of the day, to say what he had to say on this great question which has agitated the country; and that we had no disposition to debate for the purpose of consuming time. When we came into the Senate this morning, we were not notified that the question was to be taken to-night. We did not go on upon that supposition; but, between four and five o'clock in the afternoon, when many Senators on this side had left, it was demanded of us that we should decide at once when this question should be taken, or we should be compelled to sit here antil the vote was finally taken.

Do you call that treating us well? I have made no complaints about it; it is not my habit to complain. I have appealed to gentlemen on the other side of the House to give us an opportunity to be heard, to give us an opportunity to consult fairly, and then, after they have given us fair notice of what their terms were, we were ready, if we could not make terms, to agree that they might sit us out if they had the physical endurance to do it. I do not object to that; but I want Senators to understand that we are not to be crushed out.

SENATE.

We know what the rules of the Senate are; and if Senators will compel us to resort to them in order to get time, very well, we must meet it as we can. We have some degree of physical strength, and what we have we are ready to exert, and we will do it, let me tell the Senator from Georgia, without being particularly alarmed about his crushing process.

I wish now to repeat what has been said by my friend from Illinois. I have proposed to the Senate to adjourn until to-morrow morning, and give us an opportunity to ascertain when the debate can be finished with reference to what we on this side of the Chamber have to say, and not with any desire to misspend time; and I have said that if then, having this notice from Senators in the majority, we could not agree on a time, they might resort to their power as a majority in the Senate and accomplish what they desire to accomplish, and we should not complain. We know what the rights of a majority are; we know what the powers of a majority are, but we know quite as well that the minority has rights, and that the minority has a certain degree of power, and we can exert it if Senators drive us to it. I hope, however, that a better spirit and a better feeling will prevail. I do not believe that the great bulk of the majority entertain the harsh sentiments-I must call them so-which seem to be entertained by the Senator from Georgia; and, that yet we may have some conciliation on this matter. What we ask seems to us to be reasonable. I hope Senators will accede to it after the assurance we give them, as honorable men, that we do not mean to talk here or to make motions for the purpose of expending the time of the Senate uselessly. When we say that to them we have a right to expect that they will believe us, and act upon it understandingly with reference to what we do say; but if we are to be met in this manner by gentlemen on the other side saying, "we are the majority: we have decided to do a certain thing, and we mean to crush you;" then it only remains to be seen whether they can do it; or, at any rate, how long it will take to do it.

Mr. GREEN. The motion now, I believe, is to postpone. I do not appreciate the spirit in which the Senator from Maine has spoken to me and to the Senate, for this very plain and palpable reason: if I have seen any disposition to coerce and press this question without a fair opportunity for debate, I cannot name when it occurred. He says it occurred to-day for the first time. The question has been long pending. It has been fully considered. More time has been allowed for its consideration than was allowed for the KansasNebraska bill, when the honorable Senator from Illinois, [Mr. DOUGLAS,] came in and said you shall have three days and no more. Now, because we desire to come to some fair and honorable understanding, we are charged with undertaking to coerce this measure. Minorities have rights; majorities have responsibilities. The people and the States of the Union have a right to hold a majority responsible for the action of the Senate. The minority have rights, but they have no responsibility. They cannot be held responsible before the country except so far as by a factious course they interfere with the majority (Laughter.] Let gentlemen laugh. I have heard of the devil laughing at the destruction of his own victims. Let them laugh. I say the minority is not responsible before this country. The majority are. Minorities have rights of discussion, of voting; and majorities have no right to destroy these rights of the minority, but in a conflict of opinion between the majority and the minority, who are to give way? If they cannot agree to compromise and come to terms, who are to give way? The majority?

Mr. SEWARD. Yes, if wrong.

Mr. GREEN. Who ought to decide the question of wrong? The majority or the minority? Answer, popular sovereignty, what do you say? Sir, the majority must take the responsibility, and stand before the country with that responsibility in their hands, conscious that they will be held up to public gaze for the manner in which they exercise it. We intend to do it; we are resolved to do it. The peace of the country, the good of the Union, the good of the North, the good of the South, of the East, and of the West, all combined, require us to take that responsibility, and exer

cise it as we believe to be right; and hence we are opposed to postponement. We want no delay. Mr. HALE, Mr. SEWARD, and Mr. WILSON, rose.

Mr. GREEN. I am not through. I should like to give way, but three States jumping up at once rather discomposes me. Maine has been heard. New Hampshire, New York, and Massachusetts, are ready to be heard. All I desire to say is, that a postponement of this question does more harm than good. It subserves no public good; it advances no public benefit; it does not tend to the public understanding of this question. It is as well understood to-night as it will be when the Senator from New Hampshire, the Senator from New York, and the Senator from Massachusetts, shall have spoken. They have all spoken once. If there is to be no limit to debate, there can be no decision of any question whatever. When shall we say that decision shall take place, that termination of debate be had? The public responsibility hanging over the heads of a majority is a corrective for their position, if they fail to exercise their power. Their responsibility to the country is enough to stimulate them to do their duty; and hence I must say it is their duty, even if the minority think it to be harsh, to demand an expression of the opinion of the Senate on this question. It has been debated; it has been discussed; it has been investigated; and even to-night we have consumed more than two hours on immaterial matters, which time could have been very properly appropriated to the Senator from New Hampshire, [Mr. CLARK,] in the delivery of his legal argument to spread before the country, rather than thus consume time upon these immaterial points.

Are we responsible, am I responsible, is any other one man responsible, for this consumption of time?

Mr. WADE. You talk more than anybody else.

is the most important domestic question that has
been presented to the Senate during this century.
I take it that nearly every Senator desires to ex-
press his views upon it; and he has a right to ex-
press his views and to express them in proper

hours.

We had from the Senator from Missouri, as the organ of the committee, the pledge which I have stated. During the week before last, the Senate engaged in the discussion of the question four days. It has been the practice of the body, since the Christmas holidays, until last week, to adjourn from Thursday to Monday. Last Thursday week, that motion was made and prevailed, and Senators may claim that two days were lost by that vote. Last week we met day after day, steadily, and for five or six hours each day the time of the Senate was occupied in the discussion of this question. On Saturday last, about four and a half o'clock

Mr. GREEN. Three and a half o'clock.

Mr. WILSON. Well, sir, at half past three o'clock on Saturday, on the request of the Senator from Ohio, [Mr. WADE,] who has recently been confined to a sick bed for days, the bill was postponed until to-day, to allow him time to finish his speech. That speech has been finished. I know that fourteen members of the Senate opposed to this Lecompton fraud and this Lecompton swindle, desire to express their views upon the question. I understand that some four or five Senators on the other side intend to speak in support of the measure. Be that as it may, I think those gentlemen who had the pledge of the Senator from Missouri, to which I have already adverted, have a right to express their opinions within proper time and at proper hours. I believe that by meeting daily at twelve o'clock and sitting until six or seven, this question can be settled during the present week; I have not a doubt of it; at furthest, it can be settled a week from this day. Some amendments will be offered to the bill, and they may occasion a brief debate; but if the Senators who claim to have all the responsibilities and all the duties will adjourn, we will consult together to-morrow, and will tell them what we desire. If it be reasonable, they ought to grant it. If it be Mr. KENNEDY. Irise merely to ask a question. Will the gentlemen on the other side agree to the settlement of the whole matter on any day this week?

Mr. GREEN. If I had ever made as long a song as the Senator from Ohio, about Moses in his exit from the land of the Egyptians to Canaan, I hope I should be held responsible for the consumption of time; but I trust I have never done it. My object has been to talk to the question pend-unreasonable, they ought to reject it. ing before the Senate; and every argument I have made, every point I have presented as he will admit, if he admits the truth-was pertinent to the question pending; and what I am now saying is as to the propriety of a postponement of the subject now under consideration. Now, sir, as my friend from Ohio [Mr. PUGH] suggests to me, let them talk; let them vote,

Mr. WILSON. When the Senator from Missouri made his report on the 18th day of February, he pledged himself to the Senate and the country that Senators should have a fair opportunity for the full and free discussion of this question. The records of the Senate bear evidence that he, as the organ of the committee reporting this bill, gave that pledge to this body and to every member of the body. On the 1st day of March, upon his own motion, under his own lead, the Senate entered upon the discussion of the bill now before us. Two weeks ago the debate commenced. Eight members have spoken in support of the bill. When the Senator from New Hampshire shall have closed his speech, eight members will have spoken against the bill. Here are sixteen members of the Senate who have addressed the body upon this question. I take it that each member who has not spoken has as clear a right to speak as the Senator from Missouri or any of those gentlemen who have spoken, and who now stand before the Senate and the country to compel us to speak now or abandon our rights, thus violating the pledges they have given.

Senators know that this is a question which interests every man, woman, and child in the Republic. No such domestic question has been presented to the Senate of the United States during this century. It is not only of itself one of transcendent magnitude and importance, in which the people are deeply interested, but it towers above all other questions. In it are involved matters concerning fraud, violence, and outrage of unparalelled atrocity, that have been perpetrated in one of the Territories of this Union. I say that this

Mr. WILSON. What we have asked is-
Mr. KENNEDY. I do not inquire what you
have asked, but will you do it?

Mr. WILSON. We will settle it to-morrow
morning.

Mr. GREEN. What will you do?

Mr. WILSON. We will settle that point tomorrow, and give you an answer in good faith.

Mr. GREEN. We must have an answer tonight, or sit it out.

Mr. WILSON. I tell you there is no disposition here to be factious. Everybody knows that this is a question on which there is a deep feeling in the Senate and the country.

Mr. KENNEDY. What am I to understand as the answer of the gentleman?

Mr. WILSON. I cannot answer certainly what we shall do. All we ask is, that we shall have an opportunity to meet and consult to-mor

row.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Do you believe your friends will fix some day this week?

Mr. WILSON. I am asked by the Senator from Louisiana to say what I believe about it? Well, sir, I believe that, by sitting here five or six hours a day, Senators who desire to be heard can all express their views, and the question can be settled this week, or at any rate I think it can be settled within a week from this day. That is my opinion.

Mr. BENJAMIN. If the Senator will permit me, I will state the question I intended to put to him. The Democratic party announced last week that it desired to take the final vote on this bill to-night. In the course of to-day, it was suggested by gentlemen on the other side that they had not had a full and fair opportunity for debate; and, as I understand, a suggestion was made to them to name a time which would be sufficient to give them an opportunity of expressing their views

SENATE.

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on the question, but they have uniformly declined to suggest any time. I understand further, that the gentlemen on the Democratic side of the House have suggested to them, that if they would point any day this week, and any hour of any day this week, at which the vote was finally to be taken, they might have their adjournments and their recesses, and arrange the business to suit themselves; but we cannot get it said by anybody that even that will be done. I now repeat that I understand the Democratic party would be entirely willing, if the gentlemen of the Opposition would say, let us consult to-morrow morning what we will do; we expect to accept your proposition; but if we do not, we shall have no further complaint to make; we think if you will give us an opportunity of consulting together in the morning, we shall consent to take the vote this week"-the Democratic party will agree to do it.

Mr. KING. We cannot say so. Mr. FESSENDEN (to Mr. BENJAMIN.) If not, you can push it through.

Mr. BENJAMIN. If not, there will be a continuous night session until the vote can be taken. Mr. FESSENDEN. That is what I said.

Mr. HAMLIN. I desire to say a word in reply to what has fallen from the Senator from Louisiana. I think he charges us on this side of the Senate-I speak of my own political friendsunjustly in saying that we have failed to indicate any time when we thought the vote could be taken on this question.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Any time this week, I said. Mr. HAMLIN. Well, any time this week. I desire to say that I had an interview with Senators on the other side of the Chamber-the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. BROWN] was one of them-in the ante-room, and that Senator made the suggestion to me, and my friend from Michigan, [Mr. CHANDLER] that the debate should be closed this week, and the vote taken one week from this day; and the Senator from Missouri [Mr. GREEN] was also present. I told them very frankly that I had no authority to conclude any arrangement for any persons; but this I would do: if they on their part would make an effort upon that side of the Chamber to allow the debate to proceed in its regular order during this week, I would interest myself with my friends upon this side of the Chamber to get them to agree to it. I came here and I found a general disposition on this side to accede to these terms; but we had no man who could speak authoritatively. It was instantly suggested that we should meet and confer with each other to-morrow morning. Immedi ately following came the word from the other side of the Chamber that it was to be a question of physical endurance here.

Now, I am willing to carry out in good faith the suggestions that I made on that occasion; and I think the reason which I gave why the vote should not be taken on Saturday was a very good and a very satisfactory one. After the legitimate debate shall have closed, every one knows there will be amendments offered. The Senator from Ohio [Mr. PUGH] has already offered an amendment; and the Senator from New Hampshire [Mr. CLARK] has indicated amendments which he will propose. There is always on a question of this importance, after the general discussion is closed, a discursive debate, which would undoubtedly run into Monday night if we agreed to take the vote on Monday. With that knowledge before us, and knowing the history of all our legislation, I thought Saturday night an inappropriate time on which to agree to take the vote-much less appropriate than Monday. I did not see that one day made much difference; I do not see it now; and I think I gave a very good reason for fixing upon Monday, instead of Saturday, for taking

the vote.

I have no authority to speak for anybody on this side of the Chamber; but I think I can say that if the majority are disposed to give us the opportunity, we will come together to-morrow morning and confer with each other, and then we will tell them what, in our opinion, under all the circumstances, we ought to do, and then, if our terms be not satisfactory, or if they do not come up to the propositions that have been submitted, if it becomes a question of physical endurance, so be it. I insist that we, on this side of the Cham