Dr. MILLER. May I suggest your election has just been held in November, the same as ours, and you have time between now and the convening of your legislature in which that might well be done. Mr. LAWAETZ. I agree with you.

Mr. O'BRIEN. You think the time is ripe then for the olive branch, that in the light of the recent election this would be a good time for the olive branch on both sides?

Mr. LAWAETZ. I think so.

Mr. O'BRIEN. May I say sincerely-and I mean without any reflection on anyone-from listening for several days now I can see that any Governor who comes down here has two strikes on him. In the first place, he is required by his oath of office to carry out certain things a system, if you will, which is not of his creation.

He has the strike that perhaps he comes from the mainland. He incurs resentment from people who prefer an elective governor. None of those things, it seems to me, are his responsibility; he is a victim. I think if people were a little more understanding of the situation into which he is forced by act of Congress, by the system under which he is appointed, that we would have better government here.

I think cooperation is a two-way street whether it is in the Virgin Islands or in Congress.

Mr. HODGE. I want to be very brief on this because I went on record already.

I believe that the people of the Virgin Islands are just as ready now to elect their own governor as they would be in 1960. I believe, as I said, it is a question of the function in government.

We should be taken outside of the Federal income-tax laws. We should have the right to write our own income-tax laws, and we should be given internal revenues without strings.

Mr. ABBOTT. Senator Hodge, you were saying you should be taken outside the Federal income-tax laws, but you should be given your Federal internal revenues?

Mr. HODGE. Yes.

Mr. ABBOTT. You mean rum exports, for example?

Mr. HODGE. That is right.

Mr. ABBOTT. Are you recommending that rum imported into the United States originating in the Virgin Islands be imported tax free? Mr. HODGE. Oh, no. I am recommending that those internal revenues, that the full internal revenues be returned to us without strings, not on a matching basis; that whatever is collected be sent back to the islands treasury to help us to build industries and to help us to build businesses, so we will make ourselves self-supporting.

In other words, you have given us one for one, a matching-fund basis, dollar for dollar, what is collected. Give us the entire amount of revenues from year to year that is collected in the United States for the running of the Virgin Islands government, the same as is done in Puerto Rico.

Dr. MILLER. Would you like to do the same as Hawaii and Alaska? Mr. HODGE. No, sir; I would like to do the same as in Puerto Rico. Dr. MILLER. We have examples of Alaska and

Mr. HODGE. I would like to take Puerto Rico. It is closer to us. Mr. Chairman, just on that point. Congressman Aspinall put into the record the document of the Library of Congress comparing the

privileges that were granted the people, the rights that were granted the people from the mother Government.

I would like to say that just recently some of the neighboring islands had the privilege of having a federation of the islands and writing their own constitution, sir. I would like to have your committee take that into consideration.

Mr. ASPINALL. Senator Hodge, I invited Mr. Bough, with his bold approach, to send to me his scheme. You folks talk about Puerto Rico. It did not originate in Congress, it originated in Puerto Rico. Mr. HODGE. That is right.

Mr. ASPINALL. I suggest to you-I challenge you, all of you, to send to Congress your idea of a bold, fair approach and see what we will do with it.

Mr. HODGE. Yes, sir. Give us the right to call a constitutional convention.

sir.

Mr. ASPINALL. I do not care what you propose; you propose it. Mr. HODGE. And we write our own constitution and send it to you,

Mr. ABBOTT. Senator Hodge, in view of the conversation had with the State Department gentlemen who sit at the British Caribbean desk, you would be well advised perhaps to examine closely the ultimate operation of the British Federation. It is a sovereignty, independence complete from the United Kingdom under the dominion status but for the Governor General, the crown representative. Are you asking now for sovereignty for the Virgin Islands?

Mr. HODGE. No, Mr. Abbott. I am just saying the comparisons were made, and they made the step of giving those people the right to write their own constitution.

What I am saying now, we must remember when we are talking we are American citizens in the Virgin Islands, and we look to these things as American citizens. They are British citizens. Their situation is entirely different from ours.

That is all I have to say on the question.

On the question of the Governor not being able to function properly here, I am in sympathy with the Governor 100 percent, because the organic act hamstrings Governor Gordon. It does not give the Governor the right to perform his duties properly.

Section 11 says he has all the authority as the Governor of the Virgin Islands. But you would find by the time you take section 28, where the Secretary of the Interior, the President's designee, and where some of the powers of the comptroller have crept into the functions of the Governor's office, that the Governor has all the responsibility and that he does not have all the authority.

What I am saying is that within the framework of the act, administratively it can be handled that the Governor be given back those authorities that have been dwindled away from him into the Secretary of Interior's office, and in other cases to the comptroller's office. I think it would function properly then.

Dr. MILLER. I notice in your prepared statement, Senator Hodge, you dwell considerably on that situation, that the government of the islands has been moved from the islands to the Department of the Interior, and you refer to the Governor being relegated "from an exalted position to that of a glorified clerkship."

Mr. HODGE. Yes, sir.

Dr. MILLER. Do you feel that is a good statement in view of the number of vetoes the Governor handed the legislature on legislation he did not think good?

Mr. HODGE. That is why I made the statement.

Dr. MILLER. That is quite a responsibility for a glorified clerkship. Mr. HODGE. That is why I made the statement, sir, that he has all the responsibility and not all the authority.

Dr. MILLER. He used the authority of a glorified clerk.

Mr. HODGE. All he has the authority to do is do the dirty work, the

vetoes.

Mr. O'BRIEN. That is a subjective statement, I take it.

Mr. HODGE. According to section 28, it says the President shall appoint a designee for the administration of these funds. There was some jockeying between the Bureau of the Budget and the Department of the Interior to be the President's designee.

I feel and the majority of our people feel that the Governor should be the President's designee, because now when the Secretary of the Interior is the President's designee on the allocation of these funds he must first get from the Interior a tentative program of what is to be done. Then it must come to the legislature for approval; then it must go to the Governor for approval or disapproval. If he approves it, he has got to go back to the Secretary of the Interior for final approval. Our contention is, if the Governor is named the President's designee, it comes to the legislature, and he can sit with us in the legislature and say, "Gentlemen, this is what we want. Here is my program. Here is the situation. Let's get this passed."

We can say what we do not like. We can make compromises right there with the Governor. We can work the legislation out for the benefit of the people. But as it stands now the situation is a cumbersome one. It is no fault of the Governor, it is just a question how the administration passes out those funds.

Mr. ABBOTT. A moment ago, Mr. Hodge, you said it was indeed the fault of the organic act, the hodgepodge

Mr. HODGE. I said

Mr. ABBOTT. May I finish please, Mr. Hodge?

Mr. HODGE. Yes, you may.

Mr. ABBOTT. The hodgepodge created by the organic act.

Mr. HODGE. I did not say that. I said that section 11 gives the Governor all the authority and section 28 assigned the President's designee, and instead of assigning the Governor as the President's designee, the Office of the Secretary of the Interior was assigned as designee. I said in my opening statement it was not the fault of the organic act, it was not the fault of the Governor, it was the administrative maneuvers of a few people in Washingon, and that is what causes the confusion here. Mr. ASPINALL. Mr. Chairman?

Mr. O'BRIEN. Mr. Aspinall.

Mr. ASPINALL. This hearing has taken a little bit different line than I thought that it would, but I cannot sit here, as a member of the majority in Congress and hear the representative of the President here on these islands put in a rather embarrassing position when he is present here in this committee this morning.

Governor Gordon answered Mr. Hodge's statement over on the Island of St. Thomas. These people on the Island of St. Croix have

not heard the Governor's statement, and I would like for the chairman to invite the Governor, if he cares to, to make a statement as to his understanding of his responsibilities, just the same as he made it over at the hearings on St. Thomas.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Governor Gordon, would you care to make a statement?

STATEMENT OF GOV. WALTER A. GORDON, OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS

Governor GORDON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would in the light of some of the things that have been said.

I have been working in government practically all of my adult years in one phase or another.

When I went to Washington prior to coming down to even consider the job, prior to coming down here I read the organic act through, then discussed it later with the then Assistant Secretary, Mr. Orme Lewis, and Mr. Lausi.

One of the main questions that I asked them was after knowing the history of the control of our Territories by the Congress of the United States, which is in our Constitution, and if you read the history books you know that administratively the Congress controls Territories and it delegates that authority to the executive branch of Government, which in turn delegates it to the Secretary of Interior rather than the Army or Navy, as it so happened in some instances.

But the question that I ask was, How much administrative control would the Interior Department exercise over me as Governor in view of the administrative line?

I was told by both in no uncertain terms that they would not interfere by telling me what to do or how to do it. All they wanted to know was that I had done certain things and be advised as to my reasons for it.

That I have done, and I think it is pursuant to good administration, because Congress is entitled to have the Territory of the Virgin Islands or any other Territory within the orbit of American control conform to the act that they have provided to govern that particular Territory.

I do not have to get in touch-I do not have to get in touch with Washington to get answers to questions. Under the law I send them bills most of the time, in fact all of the time, because I only have 10 day in which to make a determination on a bill after I receive it. The Interior Department has never told me what to do on a particular bill. Never.

Now as to section 28, which is the fiscal section. There you get into the controls that Mr. Aspinall and the chairman were speaking about, of finances or money that was sent down here to the Virgin Islands.

I make out the budget. The last time we made out a budget comparable, within the same style as the Federal budget represented. I submit those to Interior. Interior has never changed them, because those budgets are based on projected income as we find it down here. On essential projects, I do not consult Interior on cutting out_some of the essential projects that are passed by the legislature. I still have to stay within the range of the proposed financed for the ensuing

year.

I think there have been too many misstatements with respect to the control of Interior over the Governor of the Virgin Islands. I have never been a rubberstamp in my life. That is the reason why I asked the question that and at the outset, because I would not propose to be a rubberstamp anywhere.

I want to refu.e, and refute strongly, the statement made here that this was a political plum. I want to disillusion anybody's mind of any such thought, because it is not a political plum. I left a job where I received exactly the same money that I received upon coming to the Virgin Islands. I had just received a 4-year appointment, and I had pension rights.

Lastly I want to say this--and I made this statement in St. Thomas, and I never made it in public before except that time-that I would hate to think that the people of the Virgin Islands are so apathetic that they would not be interested in a greater measure of self-government. I have no other desire than to be of some service to the people of the Virgin Islands in regard to their welfare. I would be one of the happiest men in the world to contribute to their desires to get self-government. Whether they get self-government or not is a matter for Congress to determine, and only Congress to determine.

One other thing, about my appointments to heads of the departments: The four heads of my departments that were approved were incumbents. I named one head. He was turned down-a native, a Virgin Islander. I received no word as to why he was turned down. He was known to everybody on both islands; all three islands.

I named another head to the same department, and that person was not acted upon. I named one ou.sider to a department, and it is true no one knew him, and I doubt whether or not I could name somebody whom everybody would know on the island. I sent down his credentials and I knew his qualifications. That was for tourism and trade.

I have had difficulty getting a head of the department of education. Dr. Alonzo Moron, who is a native Virgin Islander, has been trying to assist me. I have been in contact with a number of men. Many of them asked me, "Will I be confirmed?" Obviously I cannot say "yes" and I cannot say "no." I do not know. Those are some of the things I have been confronted with.

As far as cooperation with the legislature, I have never refused to cooperate. It is a two-way street, let's not forget, as has been indicated. I have not had any desire to fight with the legislature, but as long as I am Governor of the Virgin Islands, as long as I am a human being with a conscience of my own that I have to live with, I am going to carry out the oath of my office as I see it, as designated under the organic act and the Constitution of the United States. Then in matters that are not necessarily in violation of the organic act, if it violates my conscience and I think it is a violation of the fundamental and basic concept of good government, I am going to veto it. I do not see any other way to carry out the responsibilities of my office and live with myself as a human being.

That is all I have to say, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Thank you, Governor Gordon.

Dr. MLLER. I hope at sometime, in executive session with the Governor and the proper people at our committee, that we may go into the question of how much authority he does delegate to the administrator at St. Croix or any administrator that he might appoint, whether the