FEBRUARY, 1792.]

Post Office Bill.

[H. OF R.

situation, by the prejudice and misrepresentation of those who wish to injure them, and that the amendment will not be agreed to.

Mr. LIVERMORE.-I shall agree to the amendment made by the Senate in this bill, to strike out Exeter, and to carry the mail by the accustomed route, through Hampton, which is the nearest way, as gentlemen have heretofore stated, by about five miles; and it is also the best road, more especially in winter, when the snow is deep, being

State, the Secretary's and Treasury offices are kept there; that the records and treasury of a large county, comprehending both Portsmouth and Exeter, and extending fifty or sixty miles into the country, are also kept there; and that the Judicial Courts of the County, the State, and the United States, sit there at appointed periods. It is there the Governor convenes his Council, to consult on public affairs; and it is from that place a communication should be kept up between the State and the General Government. From these circum-a road more used, and consequently the paths stances, it appears that it would be very conveni- better kept open. And as the bill provides that a ent not only for Exeter, but for a considerable mail shall be carried from Portsmouth, by Exeter, part of the State, to have an office established to the interior parts of the State, I think the town there; and as the necessary communication be- of Exeter will be well accommodated, without the tween that and other towns would afford frequent deviation of five miles before mentioned. As the opportunities to send and receive letters by private stage-carriages that carry the mail three times a conveyance, a doubt can hardly exist that such an week between Portsmouth and Boston, in the arrangement would be productive to the revenue. summer season, carry many passengers from PortsThis, I believe, to be the opinion of the Postmaster mouth and from Boston, and other places, a deviGeneral. Sir, the distance from Boston to Ports-ation of five miles, and in a worse road, would be mouth does not exceed seventy miles, and that a very great inconvenience to such passengers. perhaps the best road within the United States, of The distance from Boston to Portsmouth, by the equal extent. The objection, therefore, that the usual route, is about sixty-five miles. This is a stage cannot pass through in a day, can have no pretty long journey to be performed with a stageweight; it is too absurd to deserve a serious refu- wagon in one day, which is the case in the sumtation. The difference in the distance between mer season; but five miles added, may induce the the present route of the mail and the one proposed necessity of traveling sometimes after night, which through Exeter, is, passing through Kensington, would be attended with inconvenience to the pasabout three miles, or by Hampton Falls, about five sengers, besides hindering the mail from arriving miles. The road through Kensington is a good at the appointed hour. The inconvenience would carriage road; the stage ran that way about five also perhaps be greater in winter, in proportion to years ago, before the proprietors contracted for the number of passengers, and in respect to retardthe transportation of the mail; it was then a prettying the mail, as some part of the new proposed good road, since which it is much improved. It was, therefore, a false assertion to say that the road through Kensington or Hampton Falls is bad; and I am persuaded that the mail passing that way could not be injurious to Portsmouth. But, sir, the opposition to this measure arises from a rivalship between the two towns. Before the war, the courts and offices, just now mentioned, were held exclusively at Portsmouth; on the commencement of hostilities, it was found convenient to remove them to Exeter, where it has been thought expedient to continue them. But this has excited a degree of jealousy in the minds of some persons, in the interest of Portsmouth, who are perpetually on the watch to oppose any public measure calculated to promote the interest or convenience of Mr. THATCHER. I feel, myself, sir, as little inExeter. If this alteration takes place, letters go-terested in the present question as it is possible for ing to Exeter will be liable to a postage of twenty the gentleman just now up, from New Hampshire, or twenty-five per cent. more than by the present [Mr. LIVERMORE.] Indeed, I have no other interarrangement; and, as the cross-post will set off est in this matter than what arises from a desire but once a week, letters may lie six or seven days to accommodate the greatest number of people; in the office at Portsmouth: this will preclude the and so far, I confess, I feel interested; for any genpeople of Exeter from the benefit of a post, and eral measure that does not effect this, gives a certhey will be obliged to send their letters by private tain degree of pain. If the facts that have been conveyance, as they now do. By the original con- stated be true, and the arguments drawn from struction of the bill, the expense of transporting them in support of the amendment be conclusive, the mail would be less than by the proposed alter-I certainly should be interested in favor of it; beation; as, by extending the route of the principal mail about three miles further, the travel of the cross-post is shortened fourteen. I therefore hope the people in that part of the State will not be deprived of rights naturally arising from their

route is considerably more liable to be blocked up with snow, for want of traveling to keep it open, than the old route. Portsmouth being a place of considerable commerce and navigation, it is important that the mail should arrive at its proper times, and as early as possible. The letters for Exeter are few, compared with the number for Portsmouth. The postmaster has stated the amount of the postage of letters for Exeter, passing through his office at Portsmouth, to be about fifteen dollars and a half, in eleven months, from the first of January, 1791; a sum very inconsiderable indeed compared to the amount of postage received for letters delivered in Portsmouth during the same period.

cause it must immediately affect my constituents. But, sir, the facts are not true, nor the reasoning just. Sir, the real matter in dispute between Portsmouth and Exeter has not yet been understood; and I conceive it to be simply this: Shall the mail

FEBRUARY, 1792.]

Post Office Bill-Cod Fisheries.

[H. OF R.

Hence he would draw an argument that the busi- that the trade of Exeter, though within fifteen ness between Boston and Exeter is trifling, and miles of Portsmouth, was principally with Boston; not of consequence enough to justify so small a that, if the amendment proposed by the Senate deviation in the mail line of three or four, or, as should be adopted, they would be deprived of any the gentleman contends, of five miles. But this is benefit from the establishment of post roads; that strange logic, and a very different conclusion re- the route would be so circuitous, that the people sults in my mind from the contents of the letter. in the interior parts of the State would probably The letter may be evidence how little business is in future, as they had in times past, send their letcarried on between Portsmouth and Exeter, and ters to Boston, and to the Southward, by private that consequently there is no real need of a post conveyance rather than by post. It was easy to between these two places; but it does not contain see that the revenue, by this means, would be inthe shadow of evidence that there is no commer-jured; that this circumstance would serve to accial business between Boston and other places in count for the statement read from the postmaster Massachusetts and Exeter. If a gentleman in at Portsmouth, of the small number of letters sent those places wished to write to Exeter, he would from his office to Exeter. It was his opinion, that never think of putting his letter into the Ports- the revenue would be greatly increased by taking mouth mail. He must know that it is liable to Exeter into the main post road; and that a conlie six days in the post office at Portsmouth, and tract for carrying the mail from Portsmouth to perhaps longer, while various opportunities, by a Boston might, in that case, be obtained for as private conveyance, would present within that small a sum as by the road now used. He could not see how this would injure Portsmouth, though it might not prove advantageous to the postmaster at that place. How far the House might think it their duty to consult the particular interest of that officer, he would not pretend to say. He had reason to believe (though he could not speak altogether from his own knowledge) that the account given of the road by one of his colleagues, and the gentleman from Massachusetts, was a just one. Upon the whole, considering the amendments as not calculated to promote the advantage of the State he had the honor to represent, he should vote against it.

time.

I have hitherto admitted the additional distance, by going through Exeter, to be five miles; but, sir, since the mail stage passes Merrimack river, about four miles above the old ferry, (the gentlemen of the House acquainted with that part of the country know the places I refer to,) I cannot agree that this additional distance will be more than three miles, if so much. But, however this may be, I trust I have shown to the satisfaction of the House that, whether it be five or three, it cannot produce any inconvenience to Portsmouth, but must be highly beneficial to Exeter.

There is another consideration, sir, that ought to have some weight in deciding this question, which I will mention, and say no more. It is this: A letter that goes from Boston to Exeter, through Portsmouth, will stand charged twenty-five per cent. more than if the mail was carried directly from Boston to Exeter; while, on the other hand, the postage of a letter from Boston to Portsmouth is the same, whether the mail passes through Hampton or Exeter, because, in both of these routes, the distance from Boston to Portsmouth is more than sixty miles, and short of the next grade of postage. For these reasons, sir, I hope the House will disagree to the amendment.

Mr. SMITH (N. H.) observed, that he was sorry to find his colleagues differing in opinion on the subject under consideration. He had no prejudice in favor of one of the towns (Portsmouth and Exeter) above the other. He only wished the bill might establish that route which would best accommodate the State at large. He conceived, when the situation of New Hampshire was considered, it would be evident that the bill as passed by the House was better calculated to answer this purpose, than it would in case the amendment proposed by the Senate should be adopted. He remarked, that the trade of the greater part of that State had been, and probably would continue to be, with Boston; that, if the general line of the post road should be established through Exeter, it would be, to the people in the interior part of New Hampshire, a saving of at least twenty-five miles in the distance between them and Boston; 2d CoN.-13

The first section being read as follows:

"Be it enacted, &c., That the bounty, now allowed upon the exportation of dried fish of the fisheries of the United States, shall cease on all dried fish exported after the tenth day of June next; and in lieu thereof, and for the more immediate encouragement of the said fisheries, there shall be afterwards paid, on the last day of December annually, to the owner of every vessel, or his agent, by the collector of the district where such vessel may belong, that shall be qualified agreeably to law, for carrying on the Bank and other Cod-Fisheries, and that shall actually have been employed therein at sea, for the term of four months at least, of the fishing season next preceding (which season is accounted to be from the last day of February, to the last day of November in every year) for each and every ton of such vessel's burden, according to her admeasurement, as licensed or

enrolled; if of twenty tons and not exceeding thirty tons, one and a half dollars, and if above thirty tons, two and a half dollars, of which bounty three eighth parts shall accrue and belong to the owner of such fishing vessel, and the other five eighths thereof shall be divided by him, his agent or lawful representative, to and among the several fishermen who shall have been employed in such vessel, during the season aforesaid, or a part thereof, as the case may be, in such proportions as the fish they shall respectively have taken may bear to the whole quantity of fish taken on board such vessel during such season. Provided, That the bounty, to be allowed and paid on any vessel for one season, shall not exceed one hundred and seventy dollars."

[FEBRUARY, 1792.

ment of the whole product of his labor, except
such portion of it as is necessary to enable Govern-
ment to protect the rest; this is given only in con-
sideration of the protection offered.
In every
bounty, exclusive right, or monopoly, Government
violates the stipulation on her part; for, by such a
regulation, the product of one man's labor is trans-
ferred to the use and enjoyment of another. The
exercise of such a right on the part of Government
can be justified on no other principle, than that
the whole product of the labor of every individual
is the real property of Government, and may be
distributed among the several parts of the commu-
nity by governmental discretion; such a supposi-
tion would directly involve the idea, that every
individual in the community is merely a slave and
bondman to Government, who, although he may
labor, is not to expect protection in the product of
his labor. An authority given to any Government
to exercise such a principle, would lead to a com-
plete system of tyranny.

Mr. GILES, expressed some doubt respecting the principle of the bill; and for the purpose of collecting the sense of the Committee on the subject, he thought the most effectual means would be a motion to amend the bill, by striking out the whole section. He accordingly made the motion, observing at the same time, that he could not positively assert, whether the reasons which determined him He entertained fewer doubts, respecting the against the principle of the bill, were well found- principle, as it regards political economy. All oced or not; that, in matters where a local prefer-cupations that stand in need of bounties, instead ence is given, it is necessary to accommodate; and of increasing the real wealth of a country, rather he would be happy if his objections could be re- tend to lessen it; the real wealth of every country moved. The present section of the bill appears consisting in the active product of useful labor to contain a direct bounty on occupations; and if employed in it. It is therefore bad policy to encouthat be its object, it is the first attempt as yet made rage any occupation that would diminish, instead by this Government to exercise such authority; of increasing the aggregate wealth of the commuand its constitutionality struck him in a doubtful nity; and if an occupation is really productive, point of view; for in no part of the Constitution and augments the general wealth, bounties are could he, in express terms, find a power given to unnecessary for its support; for when it reimburses Congress to grant bounties on occupations: the the capital employed, and yields a profit besides, power is neither directly granted, nor (by any it may be said to support itself. When it fails in reasonable construction that he could give) an- these points, any forced advantage that is given to nexed to any other power specified in the Consti- it by the Government, only tends to decrease the tution. It might perhaps be brought in under a wealth of the country. The subject however mode of construction already adopted by the House, might be considered in a more favorable point of viz: that of "ways and ends" by which any power view: and that is, whether the provision be essenwhatever might be equally implied; but he wished tial to the defence of the United States, and wheever to see some connexion between a specified ther the bounties proposed in the bill were more power, and the means adopted for carrying it into than equivalent to the portion of defence that execution. There is a great difference between would be procured by them. The bill does not giving encouragement, and granting a direct boun- (in his opinion) contain that kind of encouragety. Congress have a right to regulate commerce; ment, which is essential to the national defence. and any advantage thereby resulting to a particu- Any man who takes a view of this country, must lar occupation connected with commerce, comes be convinced, that its real support rises from the within that authority; but when a bounty is pro- land, and not from the sea; and the opposite misposed to a particular employment or occupation, take must have arisen merely from a servile imithis is stepping beyond the circle of commerce; tation of the conduct of Great Britain: the inhabiand such a measure will affect the whole manu- tants of this country heretofore thought favorably facturing and agricultural system. In all cases, of her Government, and the Revolution has not yet the revenue, to be employed in this bounty, is altered their former ideas respecting it. But the drawn from all the sources of revenue in the Uni- circumstances of the two countries will, on examited States, and confined to a particular object. He nation, be found widely different; Britain, surwas averse to bounties in almost every shape, as rounded by the sea on every side, finds a navy derogations from the common right; and he thought necessary to support her commerce; whilst Amethere would be no great difficulty in proving, that rica, possessed of an immense territory, and hava Government is both unjust and oppressive in ing yet ample room to cultivate that territory, has establishing exclusive rights, monopolies, &c., no occasion to contend by sea with any European 'without some very substantial merit in the persons Power: her strength and her resources are all to to whom they are granted; although even in that be found within the United States; and if she but case, the propriety of such grants is still question-attends to her internal resources, the object of na"able. Under a just and equal Government, every tional defence will be much better answered. individual is entitled to protection in the enjoy-I Mr. G. next proceeded to consider whether that

FEBRUARY, 1792.]

Cod Fisheries.

[H. OF R.

portion of the national defence which might be As we are a part of the United States, the United derived from the fisheries, would not be purchased States in general are interested in the prosperity at too high a price. Although the apparent in- of that branch of business, so far at least as it contention of the bill is only to convert the present tributes to the national defence: it furnishes a existing drawbacks into a bounty; yet the draw- copious nursery of hardy seamen, and offers a backs being allowed only to the actual exportation never-failing source of protection to the commerce of the fish, and the bounty being granted on the of the United States. If we engage in a war with tonnage of the fishing vessels, there can be no com- any European Power, those seamen will be excluparative value between the drawback and the ded from their ordinary employment, and must bounty; they have no necessary relation to each have recourse to privateering. During the late other, and the latter may exceed the former, or the war with Great Britain, we annoyed the enemy former exceed the latter. He had made a calcu- more in that line than all others; and had it not lation, and upon the most favorable principles, been for privateering, it would often have been grounded on the Reports of the Secretary of the impossible to keep together our armies, who freTreasury and the Secretary of State. Here he quently, in the hour of need, were supplied by the produced a calculation, tending to show that the pro- privateers with ammunition and clothing, of which posed bounty on the tonnage of the fishing vessels, they were wholly destitute. All that we wish to would considerably exceed the amount of the pre- obtain by this bill is, that we may not be burdened sent drawbacks. From a comparison between the with duties. An opinion has been entertained, bounty, and the number of sailors employed in the that no drawbacks ought to be allowed on the refisheries, he showed what an expense each man exportation of articles imported from foreign counwould be to the United States; and, after other tries; but if this opinion were to obtain in pracremarks, observed, that even Great Britain, whose tice, and no drawbacks were to be admitted, we whole national support and defence depends on must confine our importation to articles for our her navy, had found, that the men employed in own consumption. The drawback, allowed by the fisheries, though so necessary for that defence, the existing law, on the exportation of salt fish, was cost her too much; that America, whose conse- calculated to be only equal to the duty beforehand quence, as a nation, does not depend on a navy, paid on the quantity of salt used in curing the fish; ought to take a lesson from the experience of Bri- but the fishermen complain that, as the act now tain: that he did not wish to enter into a compe- stands, they are wholly excluded from any particitition with Britain and France, in supplying the pation in the benefit, which centres entirely in the different markets with fish; that, as those nations coffers of the merchants. The object of the preare able to hold our greater encouragement to their sent bill is, only to repay the same money into the fishermen, than we can to ours, we would, by such hands of those persons who are immediately cona competition, only exhaust the Treasury of the cerned in catching the fish; and there can no reaUnited States to no purpose; and upon this princi-sonable objection be made to such a transfer of ple alone, he thought there was some reason to the drawback, as Government will not lose a sindoubt the policy of the measure proposed in the gle dollar by the change. The gentleman from section under consideration, which therefore he Virginia [Mr. GILES] talks of the unconstitutionalhoped the Committee would agree to strike out, ity of granting bounties; but no bounty is required. unless his objections could be obviated. We only ask, in another mode, the usual drawMr. MURRAY observed, that in order to demon- back for the salt used on the fish. If we can make strate the propriety of the measure, it would be it appear that the bill does not contemplate any incumbent on the friends of the bill, first, to prove greater sums to be drawn from the Treasury, than that the fishery trade is in a state of decay, that are already allowed, it is to be hoped that no furthe stock employed in it does not yield the ordi- ther opposition will be made to the measure: and nary profits, so as to justify the merchants in em- that this is really the case, can be proved by docubarking their capital in this branch of trade: that ments from the Treasury office. Here he read a there is a system of defence in contemplation, statement and calculation to prove his assertion; which the circumstances of the country call for, and to show that the United States will probably and which this trade is calculated to furnish; that pay one thousand dollars per annum less in the other branches of trade, which do not stand in need proposed bounties on the tonnage of the fishing of encouragement, are not equally capable of fur-vessels, than they would in the drawbacks on the nishing seamen for the purpose: that this particular object so peculiarly claims the attention and encouragement of the United States, as to leave far behind every consideration of the manufacturing interest, the agricultural, &c. All this he thought necessary for gentlemen to prove, and to show some very strong necessity for encouraging one particular class of men, in preference to all others.

Mr. GOODHUE.-It happens that the fisheries of the United States are almost entirely confined to the State of Massachusetts; and they furnish a considerable, a principal portion of our export trade.

exportation of the fish. The fishermen, he continued, are now under no control; and in consequence of this want of a proper restraint, they often take whims into their heads and quit the vessels during the fishing season. To prevent the inconveniences of this practice, the bill contemplates their exclusion from the bounty, unless they enter into such contracts and regulations, as may be found necessary for the proper and successful conducting of the business, which, from our advantageous situation would be entirely in our hands, if we did not meet with such opposition and discouragement from foreign nations, whose bounties