Mr. MURRAY replied, that he meant no reflection on the characters of the members, when he put them in competition with the public officers. If the privilege were withdrawn from the former, the door would be still open for any gentleman to introduce a mode of communication, between the constituents and their Representatives, that would be less liable to abuses. Memorials, petitions, &c., might come enclosed to the Speaker, or to the Clerk of the House; and every person forwarding such papers might, by an endorsement, designate the particular member whom he would wish to take charge of them.

[H. of R.

would justly alarm their constituents. Here he saw an exemption from a pecuniary obligationand the principle he considered as dangerous. On this ground, he wished the question might be taken on the privilege, merely as it respected the members; for, as to the Executive officers, he had not the same objection to their possessing it, since the mode in which they should use it is to be prescribed, not by themselves, but by the Legislature, who might safely be intrusted in conferring privileges on the officers of Government; but gentlemen were proceeding further, and going to determine what privileges they should themselves enjoy. The Representatives were not to be subject to the same duty that was imposed on their constituents, and this was what struck him as highly dangerous. He hoped other gentlemen would view the subject in the same point of light; and if it appeared equally serious to them, he trusted that no arguments of policy would be set up against the Constitution.

From the complexion of the debate, a stranger might have been tempted to imagine that the point in dispute was, whether or not the members should be permitted to hold correspondence with their friends and their constituents; whereas, in fact, the only question was, whether they would relin- The use of the privilege, during the time past, quish a privilege which they had unconstitution- had been given as an argument in favor of its fually assumed; since the Constitution, in enume-ture retention; but if the members had assumed rating the several privileges conferred on the Le- an unjustifiable privilege, and used it, could that gislative body, is totally silent on the subject of improper use furnish a sufficient reason for its franking. continuance? The privilege in question is a perThe nature of the Executive Department re-sonal advantage, not enjoyed by our constituents, quires secrecy and despatch; and this was one and involves the violation of a most important reason why he wished the public officers should principle. be allowed to retain the privilege of franking; but He concluded, by reminding the House that the the same argument could not be urged in favor of Constitution has conferred on the members every continuing it to the members of Congress, whose privilege which was thought necessary; and that operations are deliberate and open to the public if they swelled the catalogue, by the addition of eye; to diminish the number and bulk of their any new privilege, it would, in fact, be adding a communications, by depriving them of this uncon-new clause to the Constitution. He hoped, therestitutional and unnecessary privilege, so far from impeding the diffusion of intelligence, would, on the contrary, promote it, by increasing the revenue of the post office, and thus facilitating the more extensive circulation of newspapers.

fore, that gentlemen would proceed with caution, especially when they were treading on what might be considered as at least doubtful ground.

The question being now called for, and passing in the negative, the section was retained.

The amendment to the twenty-third section was also agreed to, subjecting newspapers conveyed in the mail, to a postage of one cent for one hundred miles, and a cent and a half for any great

Mr. GILES wished the motion so modified, as to meet the idea of the gentleman last up. The chief danger of the privilege appearing to result from its being vested in the members. In the course of the debate, he had observed, that when the tax-er distance. ation of members of Congress was mentioned, an apprehension had been expressed, lest they should be subjected to any new burdens; but that tender regard for their privileges, which made gentlemen so cautious of giving up any one of them, would, he believed, inspire them with an equal degree of caution, if ever there should be question of taxing members of Congress.

A gentleman had declared himself unwilling to relinquish this privilege; but, previous to such a declaration, the possession of it ought to be clearly proved. The Constitution, from which Congress derive all their rights, does no where mention such a privilege. The privilege of freedom from arrest, does not, it was said, give umbrage to the constituent body; but the reason is evident, and that is, that the Constitution expressly grants it. Suppose, however, the members of Congress had the further privilege of not being obliged to pay their debts; this, in addition to the other privileges, 2d CON.-11

Section twenty-five, as amended and agreed to, authorizes the postmasters of Portsmouth New Hampshire, Boston, Providence, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Annapolis, and Charleston South Carolina, to send the letters to the houses of the persons to whom addressed, and to charge, for such conveyance, one cent on each letter, in addition to the postage.

Having proceeded through all the amendments, the House adjourned.

THURSDAY, December 29.

Ordered, That the written Message, of yesterday, from the President of the United States, together with the Letter of the Attorney General, therein referred to, be referred to the committee to whom was committed the Report of the Attorney General, on the Judiciary system of the United States.

Northumberland, Pa. Petition-Receipts and Expenditures. [DECEMBER, 1791.

Election of President and Vice President.

Mr. WILLIAMSON, then renewed the motion to Mr. CLARK was in favor of adopting some mea-strike out of the ninth section the words "the Presures to obtain the information in question; but he thought the present House had no more right to bind a future House by a standing rule in this respect, than they have to say that the Speaker of the next House shall wear a tie-wig. He moved an amendment, by making the resolution to read, "that the return should be made on the fourth Monday of October next." This motion was seconded, but not agreed to.

YEAS. John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, John Brown, William Findley, Thomas Fizsimons, William B. Giles, Samuel Griffin, Israel Jacobs, Richard Bland Lee, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, John Page, Josiah Parker, Joshua Seney, Samuel Sterrett, Jonathan Sturges, Thomas Sumpter, George Thatcher, Abraham Venable, Anthony Wayne, Alexander White, Hugh Williamson, and

Francis Willis.

NAYS.-Fisher Ames, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Abraham Clark, Elbridge Gerry, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, William Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, Philip Key, Amasa Learned, Samuel Livermore, William Vans Murray, Nathaniel Niles, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, Peter Sylvester, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and Artemas Ward.

And then the question being put for striking out the words "and in case there shall be no President of the Senate, then the Speaker of the House of Representatives for the time being," it was resolved in the affirmative-yeas 26, nays 25, as fol

lows:

[JANUARY, 1792.

allow the proprietors of stages employed in conveying the mail, to carry passengers also, without being liable to molestation or impediment, on any of the post roads.

Against this motion it was urged, that the General Government has no right to make any such provision; and that even if it possessed the power, such an exertion of it would be unjust, as it would under the laws of some States, (Maryland and interfere with the private rights of individuals, who, Virginia, for instance) enjoy the exclusive privilege of driving stages for the conveyance of travelers. Under the faith of the State laws, which were in existence before the establishment of the present Government, and have not yet been abrogated, these citizens vested a considerable property in this business, in hopes of reaping an adequate advantage from their undertaking. In many instances, it was made a condition in the contract, that they should make and repair the roads at their own private expense: the terms they complied with; but they would not have thus expended their money, or established the stages at all, if they had not obtained a monopoly to secure them in the exclusive enjoyment of the benefits; and to this mo

YEAS.-Messrs. John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, John Brown, William Findley, Thomas Fitzsim-nopoly the public are indebted for the cheap and ons, Elbridge Gerry, William B. Giles, Samuel Griffin, Israel Jacobs, Richard Bland Lee, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, John Page, Josiah Parker, Joshua Seney, Samuel Sterrett, Jonathan Sturges, Thomas Sumpter, George Thatcher, Thomas Tredwell, Abraham Venable, Anthony Wayne, Alexander White, Hugh Williamson, and Francis

Willis.

NAYS. Messrs. Fisher Ames, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Abraham Clark, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, William Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, Philip Key, Aaron Kitchell, Amasa Learned, Samuel Livermore, William Vans Murray, Nathaniel Niles, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, Peter Sylvester, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and Artemas Ward.

easy conveyance which those stages at present afford for private passengers and the mail of the United States. Many of the original proprietors have made transfers of their right, for considerable sums of money; nor can the right, thus acquired by the present proprietors, be impaired, without an open violation of private contracts, and the invasion of a property lawfully purchased, and guaranteed by the State Legislatures, a property, which Congress have no right to take for the public use, without making an adequate compensation.

That clause of the Constitution which empowers the Federal Government to establish post offices and post roads, cannot, it was said, be understood to extend farther than the conveyance of intelligence, which is the proper object of the A clause was added to the bill, on motion of Post Office establishment. It gives no power to Mr. TUCKER, providing for the choice of a Presi- send men and baggage by post. The State Governdent of the Senate pro tempore, in case of vacan-ments have always possessed the power of stopping cies in the offices of President and Vice President.

The bill was then laid on the table, and the House adjourned.

TUESDAY, January 3.

THE POST OFFICE BILL.

or taxing passengers; that power they have never given up; and the proposition now made to wrest it from them, might be viewed as an attempt to lay the State Legislatures prostrate at the feet of the General Government, and will give a shock to every State in the Union.

If, by the construction of that clause of the Constitution, which authorizes Congress to make all Mr. SMITH, of New Hampshire, from the com- laws necessary for carrying into execution the mittee to whom were re-committed the seven- several powers vested in them, they should estateenth and eighteenth sections of the bill for establish the proposed regulations for the conveyance blishing the Post Office and Post Roads within the United States, made a report: Whereupon, the amendments reported by the said committee, in lieu of the seventeenth and eighteenth sections, were, on the question put thereupon, agreed to by the House.

Several other amendments being proposed to the

bill

A motion was made by Mr. FITZSIMONS to

of the mail, they may proceed farther, and so regulate the post roads, as to prevent passengers from traveling on them; they may say what weights shall be carried on those roads, and at what seasons of the year; they may remove every thing that stands in their way-they may level buildings to the ground, under pretence of making more convenient roads; they may abolish tolls and turnpikes; they may, where an established

JANUARY, 1792.]

Post Office Bill,

[H. OF R.

der consideration. If not, the Postmaster General may be obliged to adopt the less convenient mode of having the mail carried every where on horseback; even in this case, the State Legislatures may subject the post-horses to a tax, upon the same principle as the post-carriages.

ferry has been kept for a hundred years past in the most convenient place for crossing a river, give the post-rider authority to set up a new one beside it, and ruin the old establishment; they may say, that the person who carries the mail shall participate in every privilege that is now exclusively enjoyed by any man or body of men, and allege, as a reason for these encroachments, that they are only necessary encouragements to carry the mail of the United States. In short, the ingenuity of man can not devise any new proposition so strange and in-a State has a right to grant and support such a consistent, as not to be reducible within the pale of the Constitution, by such a mode of construction. If this were once admitted, the Constitution would be an useless and dead letter; and it would be to no purpose, that the States, in Convention assembled, had framed that instrument to guide the steps of Congress: as well might they at once have said, "There shall be a Congress, who shall have full power and authority to make all laws, which to their wisdom shall seem meet and proper."

The question, it was said, could not involve any controversy between the United States and the individual States. It was merely a judicial question, and determinable in a Court of Law, whether monopoly. Other monopolies had existed before the establishment of the General Government, but had been since done away; the duty of tonnage, for instance, which had been granted in some States for the improvement of navigation. As to the infringement of contracts made before the adoption of the Constitution, if the different Conventions had agreed upon that ground, the Constitution itself would never have been adopted, as it abrogated not only several private contracts, but even certain parts of the State Constitutions themselves. But the evil, in the present case, would be great indeed, if the States were allowed a power of repealing or annulling the principles of the Constitution, under cover of acts that existed previous to its formation.

But the States will never submit to this new regulation; nor will the individuals concerned tamely suffer an invasion of those rights, which they enjoy under the State laws. A contest will undoubtedly ensue; and the present proprietors of the stages will not fail to stop any new stage-wagons that carry passengers along their roads, whe- The laws of the United States must be general: ther they carry the mail or not. It would be un- they must operate equally throughout the Union, wise in Congress to enter into a contest where the nor be clogged with any incumbrances or restricadvantage is but trifling, and the risk much greater tions in any one State more than another. The perhaps than they are aware of. It is easy to blow power of barely establishing post roads would a small spark into an extensive flame; and pru- prove a mere nullity, unless accompanied with a dence ought to caution them against raising a fer-power of making them useful. The stages are a ment, which may be productive of the most serious

consequences.

public convenience to the citizens of the United States traveling along those roads; and if the In favor of the motion it was urged that the State Legislatures exercise the power of stopping Constitution, in authorizing Congress to establish and taxing those carriages at their pleasure, the post offices and post roads, and to make all laws utility of this mode of conveyance, together with necessary for carrying into execution the several that of the roads themselves, will be in a great powers intrusted to them, has conferred on them measure destroyed. If, to prevent this evil, and ample powers respecting the point in question. If the better to accommodate the citizens of the Unithe post roads belong to the United States, then ted States, and to facilitate the conveyance of the every citizen of the United States has as good a public mail, Congress found it necessary to estaright to use them, under the regulations of Con-blish turnpike-roads from one end of the Continent gress, as the citizens of any particular State, through to the other, the Constitution gave them full power which they happen to run. If they belong to the to make such regulations and it hoped they would individual States, and are subject to their regu- soon adopt the measure. lation, the same authority that limits the use of them to particular wagons, may also say that those wagons shall carry nothing else but passengers, and thus even the mail itself may be prevented from passing.

Without coming to a decision, the House adjourned..

WEDNESDAY, January 4.

It was thought hard that a citizen of the United Mr. LAURANCE, from the committee to whom States should be prevented from traveling through was referred the memorial of Brigadier General an individual State in a stage-wagon, unless the Joseph Harmer, in behalf of the commissioned wagon belonged to that State. If a right exists in officers of the army, made a report; which was the State Legislature to impose a tax in this in-read, and ordered to lie on the table. stance, they may farm it out at a high rate, and make it amount to what they please: they may proceed further, and oblige every citizen of the United States who travels within their boundaries, to purchase a certificate to entitle him to pass. If the House meant to establish the post office at all, and to have the roads free, it was thought necessary to make such a provision as the one un

A memorial of the Legislature of the State of Rhode Island was presented to the House and read, representing the injuries they are subject to from the operation of an act of Congress relative to the assumption of the State debts, and praying a farther assumption of the debt of that State. Referred to the Secretary of the Treasury.

The Speaker laid before the House a Letter