take it, but it really raises my indignation to find such a barefaced attempt made upon your understandings: I am sure, every one of your lordships that views this Bill in the light I do, will look upon the argu high duty upon the still-head cannot, because the retailer must pay that duty, let him retail in never so clandestine a manner. If it be once paid by the distiller, it inust be paid again to him by the clandestine as well as by the licensed retailer.ments made use of in its favour with equal There can therefore no reason be given, indignation; and I am persuaded, the for, I am sure, the true reason will not be noble lords who have appeared as advoavowed: I say, there can be no reason cates for this Bill, have, by their nongiven for not laying a high duty at once attention, been imposed on, otherwise upon the still-head, unless it could be said, they would not have made use of such that this would occasion a clandestine arguments. We know by whom the Bill distilling, which every one that knows was introduced; by whom it was patroany thing of the distilling trade, must nized in the other House; and this ought know to be impossible; for even a little to be an additional argument for convincconcealment is much more difficult in the ing us, that it is solely a job for raising distilling, than in the brewing business; money. If we consider it in this light, let and I never yet heard any complaints made us see, my lords, what prospect we can of frauds or concealments in the brewing have of ever being able to put a stop to business. the growing evil of gin-drinking, by increasing the duty by degrees, as the noble lord who spoke last has suggested we may do. Upon this head, my lords, let us consider, that we are but one of the three branches of our legislature, and that a Bill for laying a duty or an additional duty, upon any consumption, can never take its rise in this House. How then can we promise ourselves, that if we pass this Bill, we shall ever have it in our power to increase the duty by any future Bill? Future ministers will I am afraid, be as unwilling to do any thing that may diminish the public revenue as the present, or any past have been; and from the Pension and Place Bills that have been sent up to us from the other House, we must suppose, that ministers are suspected of having too great an influence in that House: can we then suppose, that any Bill, for increasing the duty upon home-made spirits, and thereby diminishing the revenue, will ever be sent up to us from the other House, as long as ministers have a prevailing influence there? Can we suppose, that such a Bill would receive the royal assent, as long as ministers have a greater influence upon the councils of our sovereign, than the joint advice of both his Houses of Parliament? For this reason, I shall look upon this Bill, when passed, as a law for establishing drunkenness, which is never to be repealed; and if I should countenance it in the least, I should look upon myself as accessary to the murder of every infant that may hereafter be overlaid or poisoned by the drunkenness of the mother. Thus your lordships may see, that by this Eill you are going to do the direct contrary of what you ought to do: you are going to lay at once as high a duty as, I think, can be proposed to be laid upon licences; and you are going to lay such a small duty upon the still-head, as, I am sure, will not be in the least felt by the consumer. Can any one mistake the meaning of this heterodox way of proceed, ing? My lords, the meaning is plain: it is nothing but a money job, and a job to be carried on at the expence of the health, the morals, and the quiet of the people. This is the true reason for laying such a small duty upon the still-head, and such a high duty all at once upon licences, which will certainly encourage a smug. gling retail, almost next to a prohibition. If a high duty had been laid upon the stillhead, it would not only have diminished the consumption, but it would have rendered it not worth the while of any alehouse keeper, who had none but low people for his customers, to take out a licence, so that it would have both ways diminished the expected revenue; but by laying such a small duty upon the still-head, as cannot in the least diminish the consumption, but rather increase it, you will make it worth the while of every ale-house keeper in the kingdom, to take out a licence, so that both ways you will increase the revenue. To consider this Bill therefore as a money job, I cannot but applaud the ingenuity of the projectors; but I cannot bear to hear it imposed upon this House as a Bill designed to put a stop to the consumption, or the excessive use of gin. I do not know how your lordships may By consenting to this Bill, we shall put it out of our power ever to apply a remedy to the growing evil; but if we refuse our | consent, or if we amend the Bill, by lay- beer for two-pence than he can have now ing a high duty upon the still-head, we for three-pence: he could have half a pint may put an immediate stop to this evil; for of it for a half-penny, and from that half pint the other House will thereby see what we he found a fresh flow of spirits; but he intend, which will prevail with some of them must now pay three farthings for half a pint, to move for a new Bill, and our ministers, without finding any such effect; therefore not being yet in the possession of the reve- he has recourse to gin, because from a nue, nor in hopes of being able to possess half-penny worth he finds that effect which themselves of it, will readily consent to a he expected in vain from three farthings Bill, which must necessarily produce a worth of strong beer. Thus he is led in great deal of public good, without dimi- to taste the liquor, and as the spirits got nishing in the least any revenue they are this way soon evaporate, he in a short time now possessed of. But if you once give finds a call for another dram, by which he them possession; if you once let them comes to get a habit of dram-drinking, taste the sweets of such a considerable re- and is often by company, and the agreevenue, as will, I fear, arise from this grow-ableness of the liquor, tempted to take too ing evil, I shall despair of our being ever great a dose. able to put a stop to it; and that it has been a growing evil, especially of late years, is manifest both from experience, and from the increase of the produce of the duty. My lords, as our distillery has been subject to a duty ever since it began to be considerable, I have been at the pains to examine the accounts yearly, because from them we may see pretty exactly how much has been consumed annually, and how the consumption has gradually increased. In the year 1684, as appears from these accounts, there were but 700,000 gallons of home-made spirits consumed in this kingdom: in the year 1694, there were 1,100,000 gallons consumed; and thus the consumption increased gradually every ten years, so that in 1734, there were 4,500,000 gallons consumed; but since that time the increase has been much greater than it ever was in any former period, for the consumption is now above 7,000,000 of gallons yearly; and if you spread the practice into the country, as you will certainly do by this Bill, God knows what it may arise to; for most of the poor, I believe, in a little time will drink nothing else beside water; because they find they have more comfort, as they call it, from a half-penny worth of gin, than from a pint of strong beer, which costs them thrice as much, by reason of the heavy excise it is subject to. This, my lords, is the true cause of the great consumption of gin among the poorer sort of people: we have loaded our malt liquors with so many excises, that the poor are not able to purchase such as have any strength or spirits in them, and this makes them have recourse to gin, when they find their spirits wasted by labour and fatigue. In former times, a poor man could have a pot of much better strong [VOL. XII.] I have no hopes, my lords, of seeing our excises upon malt liquors, or indeed any of our duties, diminished, much less abolished; and therefore, I am afraid, we shall never, or not at least in this age, be able to cure the evil of dram-drinking, by restoring our malt liquors to their former goodness and cheapness. But as beer is much more wholesome than drams: as the latter is a mere cheat upon the drinker, by giving only a short and transient flush, we ought to force our poor to return to the use of malt liquors, by doing what we can, since we cannot do what we ought. We cannot lower the price of our strong beer, but we may raise the price of gin by additional duties, and these ought to be such as will raise it to a higher price in proportion than our strong beer; for if a poor man could not have a moderate dram of gin under a penny, he would rather chuse half a pint of strong beer, because of the farthing saved. What additional duties may be proper for producing this effect, I shall not pretend, my lords, to determine, nor is it proper, in the usual course, to consider of it at present, such a consideration being proper only for a committee; but as, I hope, this Bill will not go the length of a committee, I shall just mention that, in my opinion, we ought to raise the duty upon the still-head to three shillings, or at least half a crown, with some difference between spirits drawn from British and those drawn from foreign materials, and between spirits drawn from malt or corn, brewers wash or tilts, and those drawn from any other kind of British materials. By such a duty as this, the price of gin would be raised so high, that people would generally chuse a draught of strong beer, rather than a dram of gin, for recruiting [4K] their spirits, when nature seemed to require it; and the poor would seldom be able to furnish money enough for committing a debauch. On the other hand, as the duty upon home-made spirits would still be lower than those duties payable upon brandy and rum, the former would continue sold a good deal cheaper than the latter, and consequently this duty upon gin would no way increase the consumption either of brandy or rum. We should still have large quantities of homemade spirits consumed, which would furnish our farmers with a market for most of their coarse or spoilt corn; and as the duty would, as usual, be drawn back upon exportation, it could no way prejudice our foreign commerce. Nay, this duty would, I believe, be as beneficial to the government, and for some years, that is, till our present set of gin-tipplers be worn out, it would be more beneficial than what is now proposed; for suppose the consumption should be diminished, suppose the whole late increase within these last eight years should be annihilated, and that the annual consumption should be again reduced to four millions of gallons, this would bring in above 500,000l. a year, which is more than can be proposed to be made of the small duties, which are now to be laid on, even though the vice should become more frequent and more general than it is at present; but whatever may be the consequence in this respect, surely the public revenue is not to be put in competition with the health, the morals, and the quiet of the people in general. If we do this, we may perhaps increase the public revenue for a few years, but at last we shall have little or no public revenue left, either of this or any other kind. For these reasons, I think, you can neither in honour nor conscience agree to have this Bill passed into a law as it stands at present, and if it is to be thrown out, the best way will be to throw it out upon the second reading, that the other House may have the more time to consider how to provide otherwise for the supply; therefore I shall be against its being referred to a committee. The Bishop of Salisbury:* My lords; I do not rise up because I think the arguments against this Bill stand in need of any farther illustration they have already been set in so : *Dr. Thomas Sherlock. clear and so strong a light by the noble lords who have spoke before me in this debate, that if the Bill be passed into a law, it is not reason but necessity that must be looked on as the cause of it. But I rise up, because I think religion deeply concerned in the fate of this Bill: it is the most unchristian Bill that was ever thought of by any government; and therefore I think it incumbent upon me as a christian bishop, to give my testimony against it in the most open and express manner I can. I am extremely sorry, my lords, at being thus obliged to give my negative to a Bill proposed as a fund for furnishing his majesty with a part of the necessary supplies: no man can be more ready than I shall always be to comply with his majesty's demands in this respect, because, I am sure, his majesty will never demand any greater supply than is necessary for the public service; but I cannot agree to furnish his majesty even with the necessary supplies in such a way as I think inconsistent both with religion and morality; and I must think, it was very unkind in the projectors of this Bill, to contrive such a scheme as should lay the members of both Houses under a necessity of opposing his majesty's supply, or of agreeing to a Bill which they could not but in their consciences condemn. To pretend, my lords, that a SupplyBill is a Bill designed for discouraging the consumption of that very commodity by the duties upon which the supply is to be raised, is such a juggle as cannot be expected to pass upon the judgment of the weakest man in the kingdom. But it is said, we are not to discourage the moderate use, but the excessive use of this liquor, and a double duty will bring in as much from the moderate use, as the single duty did before from both. My lords, the chief part of the consumption of gin consists in the excessive use, consequently, if you destroy the excessive use, even your double duty will bring in little or nothing, which would render this Bill a most ridiculous sort of Supply-Bill. This the projectors were aware of, therefore they have taken care to make the additional duty so low, that it will not in the least affect or diminish the excessive use; and in order to increase it, they are going to set up 50,000 house-keepers in this kingdom, whose chief business it will be to promote the excessive use of this liquor among all their neighbours and acquaintance. I say 50,000, for according to all with this difference only, that they will now put on the mask of a coffee-house or ale-house, whereas formerly they appeared openly as gin-shops, which, in my opinion, is a dangerous improvement; for by this means a man may innocently step in to drink a pint of beer, for quenching his thirst, and when he finds himself unwarily in a gin-shop, may be tempted to lay his money out in gin, and may by company be inticed to drink too much. the computations I have heard of, that will be the least number of houses that will take out licences for the retailing of spirituous liquors: I am afraid, the number will in a few years be much larger; for by the Report of the justices of peace in the year 1736, the number of gin retailers in Westminster, Holborn, the Tower, and Finsbury division, exclusive of London and Southwark, was 7044, besides 3209 ale-houses that did not then sell spirituous liquors, and besides a great number of persons who retailed gin privately in garrets, cellars, and back rooms, or places not exposed to public view; and if the humour of gin-drinking and ginselling should prevail as much in the country as it has lately done in London, we must suppose, that the number of gin retailers in this kingdom, will in a few years vastly exceed 50,000, every one of whom will certainly promote as much as he can the consumption, and even the excessive use of gin. The proviso in this Bill, that no licence for selling spirituous liquors shall be granted to any but taverns, victualling-houses, inas, coffee-houses, or alehouses, will be of no manner of signification; for every person that resolves to set up a gin-shop, will first purchase a licence from the justices of peace, as a coffeehouse or ale-house, and then of course they become entitled to the other licence. I know, my lords, that if justices of peace did their duty, they would be much more cautious than they are in granting or continuing licences; but they never did, they never will do their duty in this respect. Do not we know, that they never do refuse a licence to any one that is willing and able to pay for it? Are there not now many notorious vile houses licensed as coffee-houses or ale-houses? Do not we know, that when such houses bccome a nuisance to the whole neighbourhood, it is with the utmost difficulty that the honest neighbours can prevail with the justices to take away the licence? Perhaps the justices, by orders from above, may be a little more cautious than they have been in this respect; and this caution may probably be continued till this law be fixed upon us; but as soon as this is done, they will give themselves as full scope as ever; and in all places where the poor resort or inhabit, I am persuaded, every sixth house will in a few years become a gin-shop, which was our case in the year 1736, as appears from the report I have mentioned, Considering, my lords, how much the practice of excessive drinking of spirituous liquors, especially that liquor called gin, has increased since the last act for restraining it, I little expected such a law as this to be proposed; for that the practice has encreased is not only apparent from our public accounts, but from what we may observe daily in the streets. You can hardly pass along any street of this great city, at any hour of the day, but you may see some poor creatures mad drunk with this liquor, and committing outrages in the street, or lying dead asleep upon bulks, or at the doors of empty houses. It is true, we have not now those public and open scenes of wickedness and debauchery that appeared in every gin-shop before the making of the law which you are now to repeal; but the trade is carried on, though more privately, yet with as great excess as ever; and the reason we do not see more objects in streets, is because most of them sleep out the dose in the private corner where they took it in. But you are now to render the vice as open and barefaced as ever; for if this Bill passes into a law, I shall expect very soon to see ginshops opened again in all our most public streets, and all those scenes repeated which appeared so shocking in the year 1735. Some of your lordships may perhaps imagine, that the additional duty will raise the price of the liquor, and thereby diminish the abuse of it: but whatever effect this may have, will be more than counterbalanced by the licence to sell it openly, and the numbers that will be endeavouring to undersell one another; for no man will sell at so small a profit when he runs a great risk, as he will do when he runs none; and every one knows, that where there are great numbers of sellers, the price of the commodity they deal in will always be less than when there are but a few. I am therefore sincerely of opinion, that this liquor will hereafter be sold cheaper than ever it was before, consequently the excessive use of it will become How more frequent, and every year more gene- | ted up and provided for defending our ral; so that most of our poor labourers trade, and for defending our dominions, as and mechanics will either murder them-well as for annoying the enemy; and as selves by drinking this poisonous liquor to the season of action approaches, this must excess, or they will become riotous and require immediate disbursements. Then be murdered by your soldiers, in pursuance as to the situation of Europe, its liberties of the riot act; therefore, if this Bill be are confessedly in the utmost, the most impassed into a law, I hope, some of your minent danger, by the war now carrying fordships will rise up and move for a re- on in Germany: his majesty must be, we peal of the riot act; for I should think it know he is, engaged in the most imporvery hard to intice poor people to become tant negociations for averting this danger, riotous, by provoking them to drink gin, which negociations require not only an imand then to murder them because they are mediate expence, but the very fate of riotous; I say, my lords, provoking them them may depend upon his majesty's to drink gin, because I shall look upon having a plentiful supply of money, which every licensed retailer, as a deputy under he cannot have till we have provided for, the government, set up to provoke and as well as granted the supply. tempt the poor to get drunk with gin; would it sound in a foreign ear to hear, and as I must look upon them in this light, that at such a crisis the two Houses of I cannot as a friend to my country, and as the Parliament of Great Britain had fallen a member of the christian church, give my into a dispute about gin, and that the afconsent to the setting up of any such de- fairs of Europe, nay our own affairs, must puties. stand in suspence, till these two Houses have settled this most important dispute? Do not your lordships see that, besides the danger attending any delay, the cause of the delay would occasion our being laughed at and ridiculed in every court, in every country in Europe; and I do not think the dispute, as to the quantum of this duty, of such importance, that rather than not have it settled to our mind we should run the risk of being laughed at, and much less that we should upon that account expose our navigation, our commerce, and our dominions to be insulted by the Spaniards, and the liberties of Europe to be swallowed up by the French. The Earl of Ilay : My lords; as we are not now in a committee upon the Bill, it is a little irregular to take any notice of the additional duty proposed to be laid on home-made spirits, or to consider whether it be too high or too low; but as other lords have given their thoughts upon this subject, I hope, I shall be excused, if I trouble you likewise with mine; and I must say, my lords, that if we were at full liberty to settle the quantum of the duty, without endangering the loss of the Bill, I should be extremely easy as to the quantum of the duty to be laid on. This, I say, should be my way of thinking, if we were at full liberty; but whatever foundation the other House may have for their pretence, your lordships all know, that they have for some years insisted upon our having no power to amend a money Bill; consequently, if we should make any alteration with respect to the duty, it would certainly occasion the loss of the Bill, and thereby a great part of the supplies granted for the current service must remain unprovided for, till some new Bill could be prepared, brought in and passed, which could not be done in less than six weeks, perhaps not in ten. For God's sake! my lords, let us consider the situation we stand in at present, let us consider the situation Europe stands in at present. As to ourselves, our navigation and commerce lie at stake in our war against Spain. Ships of war must be fit The affair is not, my lords, of this importance, even suppose we were by this Bill to put it out of our power ever to raise the duty higher; but this, my lords, is far from being the case. Our ministers may perhaps have some influence in the other House, in questions of a disputable nature, and it is reasonable they should; but their influence there would appear to be very inconsiderable, if they should attempt to push a question there that plainly appeared to be inconsistent with the public good; and therefore, it by experience it should be found, that this Bill, by the sinallness of the duty, gave encouragement to the excessive use of spirituous liquors, the other House would certainly bring in and pass a Bill for a new additional duty; and, I hope your lordships will always have some influence there, especially when you have reason on your side; so that, though such a Bill cannot properly be brought first into |