Mr. Viner: formerly consigned to the magistrates. | from imagining that a law will be contrived Were our fleets manned in an instant? not injurious to individuals, nor detrimental Were our harbours immediately crowded to the public; not contrary to the first with sailors? Did we surprize our ene- principles of our establishment, and not mies by our expedition, and make con- loaded with folly and absurdities. quests before an invasion could be suspected? I have heard, Sir, of no such consequences, nor of any advantages which deserved to be purchased by tyranny and oppression. We have found that very few were procured by the magistrates, and the charge of seizing and conveying was very considerable, and therefore cannot but conclude, that illegal measures, which have been once tried without success, should, for a double reason, never be revived. Sir John Barnard : Sir; it is not without regret that I rise so often on this occasion; for to dispute with those whose determinations are not influenced by reason, is a ridiculous task, a tiresome labour without prospect of reward. But as an hon. gentleman has lately remarked, that by denying the necessity of the Bill, instead of making objections to particular clauses, the whole design of finding expedients to supply the sea-service is at once defeated: I think it necessary to remind him, that I have made many objections to this Bill, and supported them by reasons which have not yet been answered. But I shall now no longer confine my remarks to single errors, but observe that there is one general defect, by which the whole Bill is made absurd and useless. For the foundation of a law like this, Sir, the description of a seaman ought to be thus accurately laid down, it ought to be declared what aets shall subject him to that denomination, and by what means, after having once enlisted himself in this unhappy class of men, he may withdraw into a more secure and happy state of life. Is a man, who has once only lost sight of the shore, to be hunted as a seaman? Is a man who by traffic has enriched a family, to be forced from his possessions by the authority of an impress? Is a man, who has purchased an estate, and built a seat, to solicit the admiralty for a protection from the neighbouring constable? Such questions as these, Sir, may be asked, which the Bill before us will enable no man to answer. If a Bill for this purpose be truly necessary, let it at least be freed from such offensive absurdities; let it be drawn up in a form as different as is possible from that of the Bill before us, and at last I am far Sir; a definition of a seaman is so necessary in a Bill for this purpose, that the omission of it will defeat all the methods that can be suggested. How shall a law be executed, or a penalty inflicted, when the magistrate has no certain marks whereby he may distinguish a criminal? And when even the man that is prosecuted may not be conscious of guilt, or know that the law extended to him, which he is charged with having offended. If, in defining a seaman on the present occasion, it be thought proper to have any regard to the example of our predecessors, whose wisdom has in this debate been so much magnified; it may be observed that a seaman has been formerly defined, 'a man who haunts the seas; a definition which seems to imply habit and continuance, and not to comprehend a man who has perhaps never gone more than a single voyage. But though this definition, Sir, should be added to the amendments already proposed, and the Bill thereby be brought somewhat nearer to the constitutional principles of our government; I cannot yet think it so much rectified, as that the hardships will not out-weigh the benefits, and therefore shall continue to oppose the Bill, though to some particular clauses I have no objection. left out, and the several Amendments The term Sea-faring man,' was then were admitted in the committee. March 10. The House again resolved into a committee on the said Bill, when sir Charles Wager offered a clause by which it was to be enacted, "That no merchants, or bodies corporate, or politic, shall hire sailors at higher wages than 35s. for the month, on pain of forfeiting the treble value of the sum so agreed for; which law was to commence after 15 days, and continue for a time to be agreed on by the House." And then spoke to the following purpose: Sir Charles Wager: Sir; the necessity of this clause must be so apparent to every gentleman acquainted with naval and commercial affairs, that as no opposition can be apprehended, | may make the whole provision ineffectual, very few arguments will be requisite to in- it is my opinion that either it ought to troduce it. begin to operate to-morrow, or that we ought to leave the whole affair in its pre How much the public calamities of war are improved by the sailors to their own private advantage, how generally they shun the public service, in hopes of receiving exorbitant wages from the merchants, and how much they extort from the merchants, by threatening to leave their service for that of the crown, is universally known by every officer of the navy, and every commander of a trading-vessel. A law therefore, Sir, to restrain them in time of war from such exorbitant demands, to deprive them of those prospects which have often no other effect but to lull them in idleness, while they skulk about in expectation of higher wages, and to hinder them from deceiving themselves, embarrassing the merchants, and neglecting the general interest of their country, is undoubtedly just. It is just, Sir, because, in regard to the public, it is necessary to prevent the greatest calamity that can fall upon a people; to preserve us from receiving laws from the most implacable of our enemies; and it is just because, with respect to particular men, it has no tendency but to suppress idleness, fraud, and extortion. Mr. Henry Fox: Sir; I have no objection to any part of this clause, except the day proposed for the commencement; to make a law against any pernicious practice, to which there are strong temptations, and to give those whose interest may incite them to it, time to effect their schemes, before the law shall begin to operate, seems not very consistent with their wisdom or vigilance. It is not denied, Sir, that the merchants are betrayed, by that regard to private interest which prevails too frequently over nobler views, to bribe away from the service of the crown, by large rewards, those sailors whose assistance is now so necessary to the public; and therefore it is not to be imagined that they will not employ their utmost diligence to improve the interval which the Bill allows in making contracts for the ensuing year, and that the sailors will not eagerly engage themselves before this law shall preclude their prospects of advantage. As therefore to make no law, and to make a law that will not be observed, is in consequence the same, and as the time allowed by the clause, as it now stands, [VOL. XII.] sent state. Sir Robert Walpole : Sir; nothing has a greater appearance of injustice, than to punish men by virtue of laws with which they were not acquainted; the law therefore is always supposed to be known by those who have offended it; because it is the duty of every man to know it, and certainly it ought to be the care of the legislature, that those whom the law will affect, may have a possibility of knowing it, and that those may not be punished for failing in their duty, whom nothing but inevitable ignorance has betrayed into offence. But if the operation of this law should commence to-morrow, what numbers may break it, and suffer by the breach of it in voluntarily, and without design; and how shall we vindicate ourselves from having been accessary to the crime which we censure and punish? Mr. Henry Fox: Sir; I shall not urge in defence of my motion what is generally known, and has been frequently inculcated in all debates upon this Bill, that private considerations ought always to give way to the necessities of the public; for I think it sufficient to observe, that there is a distinction to be made between punishment and restraints, and that we never can be too early in the prevention of pernicious practices, though we may sometimes delay to punish them. The law will be known to-morrow to far the greatest number of those who may be tempted to defeat it, and if there be others that break it ignorantly, how will they find themselves injured by being only obliged to pay less than they promised, which is all that I should propose without longer warning. The debate upon this particular will be at length reduced to a question, Whether a law for this purpose is just and expedient? If a law be necessary, it is necessary that it should be executed, and it can be executed only by commencing to-morrow. Lord Baltimore: Sir; it appears to me of no great importance how soon the operation of the law commences, or how long it is delayed, [H] because I see no reason for imagining that confuted, that this Bill was drawn up withit will at any time produce the effects pro-out consideration, and is defended wiihout posed by it. being understood; that after all the amendments which have been admitted, and all the additions proposed, it will be oppressive and ineffectual, a chaos of absurdities, and a monument of ignorance. Sir Robert Walpole: It has been the amusement, Sir, of the greatest part of my life, to converse with men whose inclinations or employments have made them well acquainted with maritime affairs, and amidst innumerable other schemes for the promotion of trade, have heard some for the regulation of wages in trading ships, schemes at the first appearance plausible and likely to succeed, but upon a nearer enquiry evidently entangled with insupportable difficulties, and never to be executed without danger of injuring the commerce of the nation. The clause, Sir, now before us contains in my opinion one of those visionary provisions, which however infallible they may appear, will be easily defeated, and will have no other effect than to promote cunning and fraud, and to teach men those acts of collusion with which they would otherwise never have been acquainted. Mr. Lockwood: Sir; I agree with the hon. gentleman by whom this clause has been offered, that the end for which it is proposed, is worthy the closest attention of the legislative power, and that the evils, of which the prevention is now endeavoured, may in some measure not only obstruct cur traffic, but endanger our country; and shall therefore very readily concur in any measure for this purpose, that shall not appear either unjust or ineffectual. Whether this clause will be sufficient to restrain all elusive contracts, and whether all the little artifices of interest are sufficiently obviated, I am yet unable to determine; but by a reflection upon the multiplicity of relations to be considered, and the variety of circumstances to be adjusted, in a provision of this kind, I am inclined to think that it is not the business of a transient enquiry, or of a single clause, but that it will demand a separate law, and engage the deliberation and regard of this whole assembly. Sir John Barnard : Sir; notwithstanding the impatience and resentment with which some men see their mistakes and ignorance detected, notwithstanding the reverence which negligence and haste are said to be 'entitled to from this assembly, I shall declare once more, without the apprehension of being Sir; the present business of this assembly is to examine the clause before us; but to deviate from so necessary an enquiry into loud exclamations against the whole Bill, is to obstruct the course of the debate, to perplex our attention, and interrupt the parliament in its deliberation upon questions, in the determination of which the security of the public is nearly concerned. The war, Sir, in which we are now engaged, and, I may add, engaged by the general request of the whole nation, can be prosecuted only by the assistance of the seamen, from whom it is not expected that they will sacrifice their immediate advantage to the security of their country. Public spirit, where it is to be found, is the result of reflection, refined by study and exalted by education, and is not to be hoped for among those whom low fortune has condemned to perpetual drudgery. It must be therefore necessary to supply the defect of education, and to produce by salutary coercions those effects which it is in vain to expect from other causes. That the service of the sailors will be set up to sale by auction, and that the merchants will bid against the government, is incontestable; nor is there any doubt that they will be able to offer the highest price, because they will take care to repay themselves by raising the value of their goods. Thus, without some restraint upon the merchants, our enemies, who are not debarred by their form of government from any method which policy can invent, or absolute power put in execution, will preclude all our designs, and set at defiance a nation superior to themselves. Sir John Barnard : Sir; I think myself obliged, by my duty to my country, and by my gratitude to those by whose industry we are enriched and by whose courage we are defended, to make once more a declaration, not against particular clauses, not against single circumstances, but against the whole Bill; a Bill unjust and oppressive, absurd and ridiculous; a Bill to harrass the in dustrious and distress the honest, to puz-man should, by friendship, good fortune, zle the wise and add power to the cruel; or the power of money, find means of staya Bill, which cannot be read without asto- ing behind, we have, with equal wisdom, nishment, nor passed without the violation condemned him to poverty and misery; of our constitution, and an equal disregard and, lest the natural courage of his of policy and humanity. profession should incite him to assist his country in the war, have contrived a method of precluding him from any advantage that he might have the weakness to hope from his fortitude and diligence. What more can be done, unless we at once prohibit to seamen the use of the common elements, or doom them to a general proscription. All these assertions will need to be proved only by a bare perusal of this hateful Bill, by which the meanest, the most worthless reptile, exalted to a petty office by serving a wretch only superior to him in fortune, is enabled to flush his authority by tyrannizing over those who every hour deserve the public acknowledgments of the community; to intrude upon the retreats of brave men, fatigued and exhausted by honest industry, to drag them out with all the wantonness of groveling authority, and chain them to the oar without a moment's respite, or perhaps oblige them to purchase, with the gains of a dangerous voyage, or the plunder of an enemy lately conquered, a short interval to settle their affairs, or bid their children farewell. Let any gentleman in this House, let those, Sir, who now sit at ease, projecting laws of oppression and conferring upon their own slaves such licentious authority, pause a few moments, and imagine themselves exposed to the same hardships by a power superior to their own; let them conceive themselves torn from the tenderness and caresses of their families by midnight irruptions, dragged in triumph through the streets by a despicable officer, and placed under the command of those by whom they have perhaps been already insulted. Why should we imagine that the race of men for whom these cruelties are preparing, have less sensibility than ourselves? Why should we believe that they will suffer without complaint, and be injured without resentment? Why should we conceive that they will not at once deliver themselves, and punish their oppressors, by deserting that country where they are considered as felons, and laying hold on those rewards and privileges which no other government will deny them? This is indeed the only tendency, whatever may have been the intention, of the Bill before us; for I know not whether the most refined sagacity can discover any other method of discouraging navigation than those which are drawn together in the Bill before us. We first give our constables an authority to hunt the sailors like thieves, and drive them by incessant pursuit out of the nation; but, lest any It is just, Sir, that advantage should be proportioned to the hazard by which it is to be obtained, and therefore a sailor has an honest claim to an advance of wages in time of war; it is necessary to excite expectation, and to fire ambition by the prospect of great acquisitions; and by this prospect it is that such numbers are daily allured to naval business, and that our privateers are filled with adventurers. The large wages which war makes necessary, are more powerful incentives to those whom impatience of poverty determines to change their state of life, than the secure gains of peaceful commerce; for the danger is over-looked by a mind intent upon the profit. War is the harvest of a sailor, in which he is to store provisions for the winter of old age; and if we blast this hope, he will inevitably sink into indolence and cowardice. Many of the sailors are bred up to trades, or capable of any laborious employment upon land; nor is there any reason for which they expose themselves to the dangers of a seafaring life, but the hope of sudden wealth, and some lucky season in which they may improve their fortunes by a single effort. Is it reasonable to believe that all these will not rather have recourse to their former callings, and live in security, though not in plenty, than encounter danger and poverty at once, and face an enemy without any prospect of recompence? Let any man recollect the ideas that arose in his mind upon hearing of a Bill for encouraging and increasing sailors, and examine whether he had any expectation of expedients like these? I suppose, it was never known before, that men were to be encouraged by subjecting them to peculiar penalties, or that to take away the gains of a profesion, was a method of recommending it more generally to the people. But it is not of very great importance | posed, a discharge from the service at the to dwell longer upon the impropriety of end of six or seven months. By this they this clause, which there is no possibility of will be released from their present dread putting in execution. That the merchants of slavery, and be certain, as they are will try every method of eluding a law so when in the service of the merchants, of a prejudicial to their interest, may be easily respite from their fatigues. The trade of imagined; and a mind not very fruitful of the nation will be only interrupted for a evasions will discover that this law may be time, and may be carried on in the winter eluded by a thousand artifices. If the months, and large sums will be saved by merchants are restrained from allowing dismissing the seamen when they cannot men their wages beyond a certain sum, they be employed. will make contracts for the voyage, of which the time may very easily be computed; they may offer a reward for expedition and fidelity; they may pay a large sum by way of advance; they may allow the sailors part of the profits, or may offer money by a third hand. To fix the price of any commodity, of which the quantity and the use may vary their proportions, is the most excessive degree of ignorance. No man can determine the price of corn, unless he can regulate the harvest, and keep the number of the people for ever at a stand. By adding this to the other methods of encouragement, and throwing aside all rigorous and oppressive schemes, the navy may easily be manned, our country protected, our commerce re-established, and our enemies subdued; but to pass the Bill as it now stands, is to determine that trade shall cease, and that no ship shall sail out of the river. Mr. Pitt: of their favourite measures by arguments of greater efficacy than those which are founded on reason and justice. Sir; it is common for those to have the greatest regard to their own interest who discover the least for that of others. I do But let us suppose these methods as not, therefore, despair of recalling the adefficacious as their most sanguine vindica-vocates of this Bill from the prosecution tors are desirous of representing, it does not yet appear that they are necessary; and to inflict hardships without necessity is by no means the practice of either wisdom or benevolence. To tyrannize and compel, is the low pleasure of petty capacities, of narrow minds, swelled with the pride of uncontroulable authority, the wantonness of wretches who are insensible of the consequences of their own actions, and of whom candour may perhaps determine, that they are only cruel because they are stupid. Let us not exalt into a precedent the most unjust and rigorous law of our predecessors, of which they themselves declared their repentance, or confessed the inefficacy, by never reviving it; let us rather endeavour to gain the sailors by lenity and moderation, and reconcile them to the service of the crown by real encourage-join in measures which they easily discover ment for it is rational to imagine, that in proportion as men are disgusted by injuries, they will be won by kindness. There is one expedient, Sir, which deserves to be tried, and from which at least more success may be hoped than from cruelty, hunger, and persecution. The ships that are now to be fitted out for service, are those of the first magnitude, which it is usual to bring back into the ports in winter. Let us therefore promise to all seamen that shall voluntarily engage in them, besides the reward already pro Nothing, Sir, is more evident, than that some degree of reputation is absolutely necessary to men who have any concern in the administration of a government like ours; they must either secure the fidelity of their adherents by the assistance of wisdom, or of virtue; their enemies must either be awed by their honesty, or terrified by their cunning. Mere artless bribery will never gain a sufficient majority to set them entirely free from apprehensions of censure. To different tempers different motives must be applied: some, who place their felicity in being accounted wise, are in very little care to preserve the character of honesty; others may be persuaded to to be weak and ill concerted, because they are convinced that the authors of them are not corrupt but mistaken, and are unwilling that any man should be punished for natural defects or casual ignorance. I cannot say, Sir, which of these motives influence the advocates for the Bill before us; a Bill in which such cruelties are proposed as are yet unknown among the most savage nations, such as slavery has not yet borne, or tyranny invented, such as cannot be heard without resentment, nor thought of without horror. |