tends, to have a large number of civil engineers employed in aid of the Army engineers on public works?

Answer. I think it is necessary where work is to be performed. If it is an important work, an officer of some rank is put in charge of it; but there would be a great amount of detail in carrying out the work. For instance, in the improvement of a harbor there would be a vast number of men to be employed, and there must be a number of civil engineers of more or less skill, though not of the capacity necessary to take charge of the work themselves. The engineer, of course, cannot with his own hauds build the cribs, or make all of the surveys. He is usually supervisor in the office of all the work. He directs it; but a great many men are requisite to perform all the minute details of the work.

Question. Can you say whether any of the civil engineers connected with the Engineer Department can be dispensed with?

Answer. No, I cannot, because I never have had opportunities of judging in the matter.

Question. Are you sufficiently acquainted with the duties of the Signal-Corps to say whether that branch can be reduced ?

Answer. It seems to be a large establishment, and it seem to be popular, and to be regarded as useful by the country; but I would greatly prefer seeing it transferred to the Interior Department, or from the War Department to some other, so that it may not be a burden on the appropriations for the War Department.

Question. State whether the Bureau of Military Justice can be reduced in any manner?

Answer. I think that the Bureau of Military Justice is unnecessarily large.

By Mr. YOUNG:

Question. Do you think that the Bureau of Military Justice might be abolished altogether?

Answer. I think that it could be abolished with advantage to the service, and all of its duties put in the hands of an officer in the Adju tant-General's Department.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Are you prepared to say whether the Surgeon General's Department can be advantageously reduced, either in officers or detailed men?

Answer. I do not know that the number of officers of the department and of hired surgeons is too large. I presume that it is not. Question. Do you know anything about the hospital-stewards employed there?

Answer. I do not know how they are employed. I think that the system of hiring contract-doctors works very well and gives a good deal of satisfaction.

Question. State whether, at distant posts, it is not easier to get along with a contract physician than with an Army surgeon, who may have higher rank than the commander of the post.

Answer. It is very seldom that an Army surgeon at a post ranks the commanding officer at the post.

Question. Would it be good policy to fill up the medical staff with enough of surgeons to supply all the posts, and to dispense with contractphysicians entirely?

Answer. I cannot see that there would be anything gained by doing it.

Question. Which is the cheaper, the contract-system or the Regular Army surgeon system?

Answer. I am told that the contract-surgeon receives nearly the same amount of pay as the officer of the regular establishment, though probably not quite so much.

Question. Does the contract-surgeon get mileage?

Auswer. I think that on being employed he would receive the cost of his transportation from his home to his post of duty. I do not think that under any other circumstances he would be allowed mileage. When traveling on duty an officer of the regular establishment would receive 10 cents a mile, but a contract-surgeon would only receive his actual expenses.

Question. What would you say as to the Pay Department?

Answer. I think there ought to be about 50 paymasters to pay the Army. I do not know exactly how many there are now; but in conversation with General Sheridan and other officers, we have come to the conclusion that about 50 officers are enough to pay the Army.

Question. In view of a reduction of the Army by 5.000 men, could the number of paymasters be reduced advantageously below 50 ?

Auswer. I do not know whether there could be any further reduction or not. I have put fifty as a kind of maximum. Fifty men can pay the Army. Paymasters have very hard work to perform, perhaps the hardest of any officers of the Army, and next to them the inspectorgenerals.

Question. Having gone through the entire staff, would you say that if the Army were reduced one-fourth in number a corresponding reduction could be, or ought to be, made in the staff.

Answer. No, sir; I do not see how it would make any difference whether you take one-fourth away from the Army, or add one-fourth to it, or double it. It does not seem to me that it would make any difference in the necessity for the staff. Our staff is supposed to be sufficient for a large army.

By Mr. HUNTON:

Question. Suppose the reduction were made by organizations, would not that necessarily reduce the number of staff officers?

Answer. No, sir. For instance, if you should knock off two, three, four, or five regiments of infantry, and keep up the same posts that we do now, there would be the same number of staff officers required. We would only occupy the posts with smaller garrisons instead of larger

ones.

By Mr. ALBRIGHT:

Question. In view of what you have stated, and from your knowledge of the country, of the Indians, and of the public property to be protected, is it your opinion that it would be safe, prudent, and judicious to reduce the Army at this time?

Answer. I do not. I do not think that, in the long run, it will be wise to make any reduction, or that it would be any material gain in economy.

Question. If you were to withdraw the artillery from the coast fortifications, how would you propose to take care of that public property? Answer. By leaving it in charge of the ordnance-sergeant, or fortkeeper, as has been done whenever troops have been withdrawn. It

has happened on many occasions that the troops have been taken from all the posts on the sea-coast, to be used in actual war elsewhere, and have been away for one or two years at a time, and the property remaining there has been left in charge of an ordnance-sergeant with one or two

men.

Question. Please state whether the troops, both cavalry and infantry, are moved out from the forts and posts in the interior of Dakota, Kansas, and Nebraska to the neighborhood of the Indians in the summer, or whether the infantry does not mainly remain in the posts.

Answer. Numerous parties, sometimes large and sometimes small, are sent out every year to travel through the country in which the Indians range, and to place themselves in closer proximity to the wild bands than they would be in these posts, and very frequently temporary camps are established at points near where the Indians are expected to resort. These parties leave their heavy baggage and stores at these regular posts, and return to them when their work is accomplished. Cavalry is universally employed in this manner; but when it cannot be procured the infantry is used in the same way, and very frequently the two arms are united in the same expedition. For escorting trains and guarding herds on the move infantry is more frequently used, and the cavalry reserved for rapid movements. There is an immense amount of this work to be done, and the infantry at posts like Abercrombie, which have no military use themselves, are generally kept quite busy all summer on duty of this kind. Officers' wives and the sick and company baggage are left at the post.

Question. In the Indian country where there are troops is the conduct of the soldiers prejudicial and demoralizing to the Indians? Answer. I think not at all.

Question. From the inspection that you have made of the troops, about what proportion of them do you find unfit for military duty at the various posts?

Answer. I never made any estimate of it, but the number is small. In a healthy locality, usually nearly the whole command is fit for service all the time. And nearly all the Army is stationed in healthy regions. Formerly it was not so.

Question. State whether the presence of troops is not only necessary to restrain hostile Indians, but to protect peaceable Indians from the imposition of whites.

Answer. There are several of the posts that we spoke of yesterday that have been established with that view-to prevent peaceable Indians on the reservations from being tampered with by wild Indians, ard also to prevent white people from encroaching on them, and to act as a sort of police force and suppress the difficulties which would result from collisions. The posts at Fort Wadsworth and Fort Totten are in a great measure intended for that purpose.

By Mr. YOUNG:

Question. Are there any more hostile Indians now to be kept in check by the Army than there were in 1861 ?

Answer. There are not more of them.

Question. Are there as many?

Answer. I do not think that the number of Indians has materially decreased; but the point is, that we are in closer contact with them than ever before. I think that in ten years the Indian question will be all settled. The Indians will be so far suppressed and located that there will be probably very little difficulty with them. The extending

of railroad lines through the Indian country, and the pushing out of settlements in every direction, (as they have gone for the last six or eight years,) have brought white people in immediate contact with the Indians, and that makes it necessary to have more troops than formerly. If the late panic had not occurred, and the Northern and Southern Pacific Railroad lines gone forward, we would have wanted considerably more posts and more troops. I doubt whether, even by taking all the troops out of the Southern States, there would have been enough to supply the demand for men. The Northern Pacific Railroad would have required four or five additional posts. Two full regiments of cavalry and two regiments of infantry more than there are there now would have been required on that road.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Do you think that the Northern Pacific Railroad can be completed on the route proposed without war with the Sioux tribes? Answer. Yes, if you send enough of soldiers.

Question. How many?

Answer. Two regiments of cavalry and enough of infantry to occupy two or three strong posts-hardly so much infantry as cavalry.

By Mr. YOUNG:

Question. What duty are the troops in the South required to do? Answer. I think simply to stay in their quarters until they are called upon by the civil authorities, by direction of the President or somebody else, to do something or other.

Question. Has there been any use for them within the last six or twelve months?

Answer. You are better informed of that than I am. I have not been in the southern country for more than a year, and I do not recall any instance within that time where the troops have been called upon to act. Two years ago I was in Kentucky, and the troops were chiefly engaged then in suppressing illicit distilleries. Last year, when the Northern Pacific Railroad made its survey, it was necessary to get up a large expedition to protect the surveyors, and then parts of two regiments of infautry had to be sent from the Department of the Platte. If the troops that are now in the southern country had been in the West they would probably have been used for that purpose.

By Mr. HUNTON:

Question. You said awhile ago that the conduct of the soldiers was not prejudicial or demoralizing to the Indians. State what opportunities you had to make observations among the Indians.

Answer. Only by visiting posts.

Question. You have not visited the Indians with a view of finding that out?

Answer. No, sir; I visited the agencies. I have been called upon to inspect the troops at Indian agencies. Of course my stay there was not long, but I got a general knowledge of everything that was going on. By Mr. YOUNG:

Question. Suppose that the Army was very much diminished, and there should be an Indian war or Indian raids, do you think that contract troops could be used by the Government with advantage?

Auswer. No, sir; they are much more expensive. It takes a good while to organize them, and after they are mustered out they have a

variety of claims against the Government, making them much more expensive than regular troops would have been.

Question. How are the artillery troops generally used now; are they used as infantry a good deal?

Answer. Almost entirely.

Question. Are many of those artillery regiments on the frontier?

Answer. There are none on the frontier. With the exception of one or two batteries in each regiment the rest of the artillery is armed with muskets. At present they are nearly all at the forts. I was an artil lery officer ten or twelve years, and during most of that time a large portion of my regiment was either in Florida or Texas, away from any access to guns. For instruction they sent them down, every two or three years, to the school at old Point Comfort to practice artillery, and to study at the same time.

Question. Is not that school of artillery a very expensive establishment?

Answer. I do not know that it is. There are simply two companies from each regiment concentrated there, and the additional expense for a little material and for experimental firing I presume is not great.

By Mr. GUNCKEL:

Question. Suppose that no vacancies were filled during the coming year, what reduction in the number and pay of the officers would be effected?

Answer. The amounts could be readily calculated, with a near approach to accuracy, but I have not the means at hand to make it now.

WASHINGTON, D. C., January 22, 1874. Major-General POPE appeared before the committee in response to its invitation.

The CHAIRMAN. What has your command been within the last few years?

General POPE. I have commanded, for nearly four years past, the military department of the Missouri. The department is bounded on the east by Indiana, on the west by Arizona and Utah, on the north generally by the Union Pacific Railroad, and on the south by the Indian Territory, a portion of which is within my command.

The CHAIRMAN. State whether there are in your department troublesome, mischievous, or hostile Indians?

General POPE. The wild Indians who infest the greater part of the department of the Missouri, beginning at the south, are the Arapahoes and Cheyennes and Kiowas, and the Comanches and Apaches of the plains, and the Apaches of New Mexico, on the south. On the west and northwest, we have the Navajoes and the Utes. On the north of ns we are invaded almost every year by the northern Cheyennes aud by the various bands of Sioux north of the Platte.

The CHAIRMAN. State whether there is any danger in the State of Kausas from the inroads of Indians?

General POPE. They are in constant danger of those Indians who prowl through the country, following the buffaloes in every direction that they go. Frequent attacks have been made in years past-not within the last-on the frontier settlements of Kansas, which are advancing rapidly toward the west along all the streams.