Mr. SPENCE. No, sir. I have two very close friends who are architects, one of whom was appointed by the President as an advisor to the General Services Administration. Their last estimate was that we couldn't replace our existing facility for under $90 million.

Mr. ANDREWs. I think that with escalation that would be about the figure that your predecessor had in mind in connection with a new building, wasn't it?

Mr. SPENCE. The cost of our proposed addition would be well below that.

Mr. ANDREWS. I understand. But you plan additional space and buildings.

Mr. SPENCE. I do, indeed, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you have any idea of what it would cost to do what you envision over in that complex? A ballpark estimate?

Mr. SPENCE. I would say it would be less than $60 million. That is ballpark.

Mr. EVANS. Will the gentleman yield on that point?

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes.

Mr. EVANS. It's my understanding that as you determine what you will do over there and reduce your determination to plans, specifics, and estimates and contracts, that you will be presenting those to the Joint Committee and this committee, as you proceed for authority to do it and for the money to do it?

Mr. SPENCE. Absolutely, sir. I wouldn't dare do otherwise.
Mr. CASEY. Will the chairman yield?

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes, Mr. Casey.

EXPENDITURES FOR INDUSTRY REPRESENTATIVES

Mr. CASEY. The chairman touched on this $3,500 for lunches and dinners. These are representatives from industry that come and give you advice, is that it?

Mr. SPENCE. Yes, sir.

Mr. CASEY. How frequently do they come?

Mr. SPENCE. Over the past 6 months they have been in Washington three times for 2 days each. They pay their own way in and pay their own hotel bills, but I picked up the tab for the meals they ate while here.

Mr. CASEY. You have been paying for that out or your own pocket? Mr. SPENCE. Yes, sir; I have indeed, sir.

SELECTION OF INDUSTRY REPRESENTATIVES

Mr. CASEY. How many of them are there? How are they selected? Who selects them?

Mr. SPENCE. They are nominated by the two industry trade associations the Printing Industry of America and the National Association of Photolithographers as the outstanding people in each of the specialties. In the offset press, composition, bindery services, they are the acknowledged experts in their field in the industry and the associations. They are all printing house owners or executives of large printing companies.

AUTHORITY FOR ESTABLISHING INDUSTRY ADVISORY GROUP

Mr. CASEY. How did they get started?

Mr. SPENCE. One of them was a graduate of Carnegie Tech.

Mr. CASEY. I am not talking about that. I mean how did you get started having representatives of industry come in here?

Mr. SPENCE. It's a perfectly normal thing to have a Governmentindustry advisory group. The executive agencies have also furnished membership to this group, our executive office customers.

Mr. CASEY. Was it created in a statute?

Mr. SPENCE. No, sir.

Mr. CASEY. Did somebody out of the clear blue one day say, “We ought to give you some help"?

Mr. SPENCE. No, sir. I discussed this with the Joint Committee on Printing and told them in my personal evaluation to get the best brains of the industry to help us to do a better job was the way we should go about it. I firmly believe this is the best way to go about it.

Mr. CASEY. Did you request them to send someone?

Mr. SPENCE. Yes, I did.

Mr. CASEY. That is how it got started?

Mr. SPENCE. Yes, sir; by my request.

Mr. CASEY. How many of them are there who come in?

Mr. SPENCE. There are 10.

Mr. CASEY. They have been in twice so far?

Mr. SPENCE. Three times. Hopefully they will have a final report to me by the middle of next month, which I will then present to the Joint Committee on Printing.

Mr. CASEY. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ANDREWS. Is this money to reimburse you for money out of pocket or to provide food for advisers in the future?

Mr. SPENCE. In the future, sir. There is no retroeffect.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you plan to have these people come back in the future?

Mr. ANDREWS. Now we will consider the appropriation, "Congressional Printing and Binding," which is in the amount of $38 million for fiscal year 1972, an increase of $6 million over 1971. We shall insert the justifications in the record at this point.

(The pages follow :)

SUMMARY OF APPROPRIATION ESTIMATES FOR CONGRESSIONAL PRINTING AND BINDING, FISCAL YEAR 1972

The estimates for congressional printing and binding are to provide funds with which to pay for the cost of printing and binding required for the use of Congress; for the printing, binding, and distribution of the Federal Register, and for printing and binding supplements to the Code of Federal Regulations.

Funds to cover the cost of the printing and binding needs of the various executive and legislative departments, independent establishments, and the judiciary are not included in this appropriation but are provided for in the appropriation acts for these branches of the Government. The Government Printing Office recovers the cost for this work through billings to these agencies.

The total amount estimated for congressional printing and binding for the fiscal year 1972 is $38 million; $34 million is estimated to provide for printing and binding work for Congress for the fiscal year 1972 and $4 million is required to reimburse the 1971 appropriation for charges incurred for fiscal year 1970 work which were paid out of the 1971 appropriation, as authorized by law (Public Law 91-382) which states the appropriation "shall be available for the payment of obligations incurred under the appropriations for similar purposes for preceding fiscal years.” This provision of law recognizes that there can be no effective means to determine in advance the volume of congressional printing which the Government Printing Office is called upon to produce.

The appropriation for congressional printing and binding for fiscal year 1970 is $27,800,000 plus $2,500,000 to cover a deficit incurred in fiscal year 1968 for a total of $30,300,000.

The total amount estimated for congressional printing and binding for the fiscal year 1971 is $32 million.

The following statement has been prepared showing:

1. Fiscal year 1970 expenditures billed through December 31, 1970.

2. Estimated outstanding obligations for fiscal year 1970, as of December 31, 1970.

3. Estimated expenditures for fiscal year 1970.

4. Estimated expenditures for fiscal year 1971. 5. Estimated expenditures for fiscal year 1972.

6. Estimated deficiency for fiscal year 1970.

7. Total estimated requirements for fiscal year 1972.