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leading them, by the contagion of try, intrusted with the administra-
example, to the commission of the tion of the laws. The system of
most atrocious crimes, at which penitenciaries bad been successfully
they might shudder on their first tried in America, and had produ-
imprisonment. This was the case ced the most beneficial rosults in
in all the prisons of England, with England wherever it had been tried.
a few honourable exceptions, and The government of Ireland de.
pre-eminently so in that prison in served the highest praise for its en-
the metropolis which was more im- couragement of this system; and
mediately under the notice of the if the British government, with the
public. That prison, situated not experience of Nottingham, and the
far from the monument erected to example of America and Ireland,
the benevolent Howard, was a re. should still adhere to the present
proach to the country. The ho- system, it would merit as much
nourable gentleman then enume- censure as the Irish government
rated the evils resulting from the meriied honour. He should there-
confinement, promiscuously, of fore move “That an humble ad-
persons of different ages and de- dress be presented to his majesty,
grees of guilt, in the prisons and that he would be graciously pleased
hulks, whereby the less criminal to give directions for carrying into
and experienced were titored in- effect so much of the 19th of the
to the commission more king as relates to the erecting peni-
heinou, crimes, of which they were tentiary prisons, and also to carry
ignorant. He had never said that into execution the act of the 34th
transportation should be altogether of his reign."
abolished: but he thought it cruel Mr. secretary Ryder said, that
that any persons but those sen- when he last induced his honourable
tenced for life should be trans- friend to withdraw this motion, it
ported. In 1801), forty persons was under the expectation that he
had been transported, who had but should be able to procure complete
one year of their term to expire ; information upon the subject. That
and ten who had but nine months information he had since not ob-
were transported to New Souih tained, in consequence of the ab-
Wales, a voyage of nine months. sence from London of a gentleman
Even last August, two men had who had applied himself laborious.
been transported having only two ly to the consideration of such sub.
years of their term unexpired. It jects. He had inquired into the
was cruel to send out unhappy circumstance of the persons trans-
convicts under such circumstances ported, as alluded to by his honour-
without providing the means of able and learned friend; and found
their return; i was particularly so that they had conducted themselves
with respect to females, and per- . in exciting the other convicts to
sons of feeble frames, who were commotion, and assisting in the
unable to work their passage home. escope of three that had been re.
He deprecated the idea that trans. commended for transportation.
portation was hit a sunmer voyage

Mr. Bizthurst said he should proto a better climate, as it might pose a middle course, and that have a very grievous effect if such was, that the house should give a an impression were to be felt by distinct pledge to take the question magistrates throughout the coun. into consideration early next session.

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Mr. Wilberforce regretted that The solicitor-general preferred a suggestion of his on a former oc- the middle course. casion for reprinting the report on Mr. Whitbread supported the this subject had not been attended motion. He said that the opinions to; because, if that report had been of Mr. Howard, with whom he had in the hands of gentlemen, it would been intimately connected from his be impossible for them not to agree infancy, had been misunderstood, to the motion of liis honourable Mr. Howard never thought of friend. He was aware of the ar- solitary imprisonment as a punish, duous duties which his right ho. ment which ought to be continued nourable friend had to perform; for more than a very short time. but when he recollected how often The question was then put, and this admirable plan had been near the motion was lost by a majority being carried into execution, lie of 69 to 52. could not reconcile himself to any delay of thie motion.


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Debate in the House of Commons on Mr. Fuller's Motion for the abolisking of

Sinecures.--Mr. Bankes's Bill to prevent th' giving away of Places in reversion. Delate on Mr. Wit!read's Morion for the Production of Papers supposed to bave been presented to the King by the Earl of Charhan : His Majesty's Answer: --IIr. Gra:tan on a Petition from some Irish Roman Catholics. -Mr. Fuller's Outrage in the House of Commons ;-committed to the Custody of the Serjeant at Arms; his Ajology; and Debate on Mr. Perceval's Motion io discharge him.The Speaker's Reprimand of Mr. Fyller.


H .

OUSE of Commons, Feb. 12. properly granted. He observed the motion of which he had given šary or not necessary.

If not ne notice, relative to sinecure places, cessary, why should they be contifelt it impossible for him to impress nued ? and if necessary, was it to the house more strongly with the be supposed that such a man necessity of adopting it, than by lord Hale would have so expressly quoting a passage from the works 'stated his opinion against them? of that great law authority, lord It was his opinion, that not only the Hale. The honourable member practice of granting places in rethen read an extract from the work version was improper, but that the to which he referred, and which crown ought to put in force, for the not only condemned the practice of interest of the public, the resumpgranting such offices, but enume. tion of all such grants. By such ţated the particular offices so im. measures neither the crown 1:or the


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people would lose any thing. Whilst oppose the motion of the honourable the present system existed, it was gentleman, but to state his opinion, vain to expect what had been pro- that it would have been better if the claimed by the great Alfred,—that honourable gentleman had deferred justice should be carried to the his motion till the report of the doors of every man. It was not his committee should enable the house wish or intention, in bringing for- to come to some decision upon

the ward this motion, to strike against question. He was of opinion that or break down the influence of the it would be better for the honour.. crown. On the contrary, he was able gentleman to put off his motion glad to perceive that the influence till some fuiure day. of the crown had increased in pro- Mr. Ward would vote for the meaportion as the corruption of the sure of the honourable gentleman morals of the people had been pro- now, precisely on the ground which gressive. This accession to the in- the mover had disclaimed: because fluence of the crown was necessary he thought that the enormous into the preservation of the balance fluence of the crown ought, by all of the constitution. But this form- fair and constitutional means, to be ed no part of the proposition he had diminished. Many years ago, a meto bring forward. His object was morable resolution had passed in to prevent the avaricious part of that house, “ that the inÄuence of the aristocracy from providing for the crown had increased, was in. the younger branches of their fa- creasing, and ought to be dimimilies, by procuring for them sine- nished.” If, at that time, the recure appointments. It appeared solution was correct in point of from the appendix of the report of fact; if it was nearly so; if it was the committee of finance, that three not a complete and palpable falsehundred and fifty thousand pounds hood; what was the state of the inof the public money were enjoyed fluence of the crown now? During in that way; and it was obvious the last thirty years, it had been rathat the whole of that sum might pidly increasing, strengthening with be saved to the nation, if such our weakness, until it arrived at its places were to be abolished after present enormous height-such a the death of the present possessors. height that it pervaded the whole He did not wish to take from his face of the country; that it insinusovereign the power or the means of ated itself almost into every family rewarding meritorious services; but in the nation ; and that there was he thought it necessary to the in- hardly an individual so obscure, or terests of a country orna

namented and insulated, as not to be subject to it, distinguished by the exalted genius either directly or through his conof Nelson, and the divine intellect nexions. But to show to what a of Mr. Pitt, that its resources height the influence of the crown should be properly husbanded, and had grown, nothing more was nedisposed of only in remuneration of cessary than the fact, that these national services. He should there- were the ministers of the country! fore move for leave to bring in a for, if it had not grown to such a bill for abolishing sinecure offices. size as never had been known under

On the quiestion being put, the house of Brunswick, such a mi-
Mr, Henry Thornton rose, not to nistry could not have existed a mo.

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ment-nay, no such administration most useless of mankind, than that could ever have been formed, as no it should form, in the hands of mię one could have ventured upon such nisters, an instrument for the de. an experiment. No one could more struction of our soldiers. detest than he did any thing which The chancellor of the exchequer led to violent and revolutionary observed, that the feeling which changes; he would go further, and seemed to be uppermost in the mind say, that if there was any branch of the honourable gentleman was, to which he would without much that whatever may be the subject apprehension allow rather more under consideration, a charge was than its due share of power, it was to be brought against government. the monarchical branch; but for the Whether the question was one for sake of the people, some stop ought reform, æconomy, or upon any sub, to be put to the enormous growth ject of general policy, the honourof the power of the crown, and also able gentleman opposite took occa. for the advantage of the crown it- sion to bring complaints against the self, lest the time should at last conduct of the government; and to come when it must extinguish the urge, that if talents, ability, and other branches, or be itself extin. integrity were necess:ry, they were guished. If he would diminish the to be found on their side of the power of the crown, it was to widen house. The honourable gentleman its basis and increase its security. opposite well knew, that they and There was nothing more to be de- their party possessed a much larger precated at present than the abs. proportion of the offices to which traction of the mind by minor objects ihe motion applied, than the gen. from those of a greater and more tlemen on his side; and he would extensive importance. Of all the ask them, whether it was fair, just, forms which were agitated, there or honest in them, to make the were two which he thought of pro- possession of such places the ground minent consequence : first, a reform of charge against his majesty's. in the great departments of state, present servants ? For bimself, he which probably might, to a certain should oppose the motion, but upon degree, be expected from the la- a diferent ground from that stated bours of the finance committee; and by the honourable gentleman, who secondly, a reform in the whole had taken such a view of it only as mode and principle of conducting would lead to a change of govern. the war. The house would recol- ment, in which he should jusily be lect, that twice as much had been destined 'o bear so conspicuous a expended on the late calamitous psit. The commiiiee of finance and most impolitic expeditions, as had reported upon the subject of would have purchased the fee sim- sineci:res, that, if they were to be ple of all these sinecires. What abolished, an equivalent should be was the use of our economy, if the provided in some other way. As fruits of it were to be converted in- to the observation of the honourato a fund for the ministers to squan- ble gentleman respecting the great der upon such frantic expeditions as increase of the influence of the that to Walcheren? For his part, crown, he was ready to deny the he had rather that the money should fact. Since the period when that be thrown away upon the idlest and house had agreed to the proposition


of Mr. Dunning, all Mr. Burke's not founder on the rock of premeasures of reform had taken rogative, but be carried safely into place. Besides, in the proportion its desired haven, notwithstanding in which the influence of the crown the storm which seemed to threaten had increased, in consequence of its progress. The minds of the the augmented revenue and expen- public at large were made up to the diture of the country, the means expectation of the present measure and wealth of its population had being carried, and he trusted their kept constantly progressive, and lordships would not disappoint them; formed a balance for any accession or it would be supposed that there to the infuence of the crown. He was a disposition to resist every spe. looked upon the motion before the cies of reform. After it had been house to be premature; but was of sent up to their lordships by the opinion, that whether the expedi- unanimous vote of the house of tions alluded to by the honourable commons, the representative body, member had been successful or he trusted the house would


the unsuccessful, or whatever might bill without opposition. It was evihave been the expenses attending dent that the other house and the them, such topics were wholly un. public considered this as an imconnected with the question before portant measure; and if there was the house.

a spark of public spirit, if there was Mr. Lamb and Mr. Creevy were an attachment to public principle in for the motion. Mr. Saunders spoke the ministers of the country, they against it. Mr. Bankes urged Mr. would not oppose this bill, in the Fuller to withdraw it for the pre- present situation of the country, sent; to which he agreed, more particularly when the calls

We have already noticed the upon the public were so great and measures taken by Mr. Bankes to pressing, and when so many calaprevent places in reversion to be mities had occurred. This was a given away by the crown. The bill time that particularly called on their passed the house of commons with- lordships to consider the public senout much opposition, but in the up- timent. The noble earl entered inper heuse it met with a disferent to the various steps that had been reception. The second reading of taken with respect to the bill, which it was appointed for Monday, Fe- iad been sent up twice to their bar, bruary 26; when earl Grosvenor and which they had rejected; and observed, thongh ministers seemed hoped, notwithstanding what had reluctant to give their opinions on

been done hitherto, that it was not the subject, an opposition to the intended to substitute for this meabill had been started by a noble sure a mere bill for the purpose of friend, and supported by others; suspending the exercise of the preso that it was deemed necessary to rogative in this respect, which if adjourn the discussion, on the passed was equally an attack on ground of the necessity of a com- the royal prerogative. The house munication of the royal consent in of commons had shown itself so per, the first instance, as if the bill in- ' severing and determined in the provolved an attack on the prerogative secution of the measure, that they of the crown. The particular ob- had resorted to an unusual mode; jection had however been given up, that of inspecting their lordships' and he hoped that this bill would journals, to search for precedents


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