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North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye—3; New Hampshire, Massachusetts, (Mr. GERRY, aye,) Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, no—8.
Mr. SHERMAN moved that “no treaty shall be made without a majority of the whole number of the Senate."
Mr. GERRY seconded him.
Mr. WILLIAMSON. This will be less security than two-thirds, as now required.
Mr. SHERMAN. It will be less embarrassing.
Massachusetts, Connecticut, Delaware, South Carolina, Georgia, aye—5; New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, no-6.
Mr. Madison moved that a quorum of the Senate consist of two-thirds of all the members.
Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS. This will put it in the power of one man to break up a quorum.
Mr. Madison. This may happen to any quorum. On the question, it passed in the negative,
Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye—5; New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, no—6.357
Mr. WILLIAMSON and Mr. GERRY, moved “that no treaty should be made without previous notice to the members, and a reasonable time for their attending."
On the question,-all the States, no; except North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia, aye.
On a question on the clause of the Report of the
Committee of eleven, relating to treaties by twothirds of the Senate-all the States were, aye; except Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Georgia, no.358
Mr. GERRY moved, that “no officer shall be appointed but to offices created by the Constitution or by law.” This was rejected as unnecessary,
Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, North Carolina, Georgia, aye—5; New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina, no-6.
The clause referring to the Senate the trial of impeachments against the President, for treason and bribery, was taken up.
Colonel Mason. Why is the provision restrained to treason and bribery only? Treason, as defined in the Constitution, will not reach many great and dangerous offences. Hastings is not guilty of treason. Attempts to subvert the Constitution may not be treason, as above defined. As bills of attainder, which have saved the British constitution, are forbidden, it is the more necessary to extend the power of impeachments. He moved to add, after “bribery,” “or maladministration.” Mr. GERRY seconded him.
Mr. MADISON. So vague a term will be equivalent to a tenure during pleasure of the Senate.
Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS. It will not be put in force, and can do no harm. An election of every four years, will prevent maladministration.
Col. Mason withdrew “maladministration;" and substituted, “ other high crimes and misdemeanours against the State.”
On the question, thus altered,
ryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, * Georgia, aye-8; New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, no-3.
Mr. MADISON objected to a trial of the President by the Senate, especially as he was to be impeached by the other branch of the Legislature; and for any act which might be called a misdemeanour. The President under these circumstances was made improperly dependent. He would prefer the Supreme Court for the trial of impeachments; or, rather, a tribunal of which that should form a part.
Mr. GOUVERNEUR Morris thought no other tribunal than the Senate could be trusted. The Supreme Court were too few in number, and might be warped or corrupted. He was against a dependence of the Executive on the Legislature, considering the Legislative tyranny the great danger to be apprehended; but there could be no danger that the Senate would say untruly, on their oaths, that the President was guilty of crimes or facts, especially as in four years he can be turned out. .
Mr. PINCKNEY disapproved of making the Senate the court of impeachments, as rendering the President too dependent on the Legislature. If he opposes a favorite law, the two Houses will combine against him, and under the influence of heat and faction throw him out of office.
Mr. WILLIAMSON thought there was more danger of too much lenity, than of too much rigor, towards the President, considering the number of cases in which the Senate was associated with the President.
* In the printed Journal, South Carolina, no.
Mr. SHERMAN regarded the Supreme Court as improper to try the President, because the Judges would be appointed by him.
On motion by Mr. Madison, to strike out the words, “ by the Senate," after the word “conviction,”
Pennsylvania, Virginia, aye—2; New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, no-9.
In the amendment of Col. Mason just agreed to, the word “State,” after the words, “misdemeanours against,” was struck out; and the words, “United States," unanimously inserted, in order to remove ambiguity.
On the question to agree to the clause, as amended, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-10; Pennsylvania, no-1.
On motion, the following: “The Vice President, and other civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment and conviction, as aforesaid,” was added to the clause on the subject of impeachments.
The clause of the Report made on the fifth of September, and postponed, was taken up, to wit: “All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; and shall be subject to alterations and amendments by the Senate. No money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in consequence of appropriations made by law.”
It was moved to strike out the words, “and shall be subject to alterations and amendments by the
Senate;" and insert the words used in the Constitution of Massachusetts on the same subject, viz: “but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments, as in other bills;" which was agreed to, nem.
On the question on the first part of the clause, "all bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives,'*
New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-9; Delaware, Maryland, no-2.
Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS moved to add to the third clause of the Report made on the fourth of September, the words, “and every member shall be on oath ;" which being agreed to, and a question taken on the clause, so amended, viz: “The Senate of the United States shall have power to try all impeachments; but no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the members present; and every member shall be on oath,”
New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-9; Pennsylvania, Virginia, no-2.
Mr. GERRY repeated his motion above made, on this day, in the form following:“ The Legislature shall have the sole right of establishing offices not heretofore provided for;" which was again negatived,
* This was a conciliatory vote, the effect of the compromise formerly alluded
See note, page 1501.