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ticle 10, Sect. 1, was then postponed till to-morrow, at the instance of the Deputies of New Jersey.*
Article 10, Sect. 2, being taken up, the word " information” was transferred, and inserted after “Legislature."
On motion of Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS, “he may," was struck out, and "and" inserted before “recommend,” in the second clause of Article 10, Sect. 2, in order to make it the duty of the President to recommend, and thence prevent umbrage or cavil at his doing it.
Mr. SHERMAN objected to the sentence," and shall appoint officers in all cases not otherwise provided for in this Constitution.” He admitted it to be proper that many officers in the Executive department should be so appointed; but contended that many ought not, -as general officers in the army, in time of peace, &c.
Herein lay the corruption in Great Britain. If the Executive can model the army, he may set up an absolute government; taking advantage of the close of a war, and an army commanded by his creatures. James II. was not obeyed by bis officers, because they had been appointed by bis predecessors, not by himself. He moved to insert, “or by law,” after the word “constitution."
On motion of Mr. Madison, "officers” was struck out, and “to offices” inserted, in order to obviate doubts that he might appoint officers without a previous creation of the offices by the Legislature.
On the question for inserting, “or by law," as moved by Mr. SheRMAN,—Connecticut, aye-1; New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylva
nia, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, no—9; North Carolina, absent.
Mr. DICKINSON moved to strike out the words, “and shall appoint to offices in all cases not otherwise provided for by this Constitution;" and insert, "and shall appoint to all offices established by this Constitution, except in cases herein otherwise provided for; and to all offices which may hereafter be created by law."
Mr. RANDOLPH observed, that the power of appointments was a formidable one both in the Executive and Legislative hands; and suggested whether the Legislature should not be left at liberty to refer appointments, in some cases, to some State authority.
Mr. DICKINSON's motion passed in the affirmative,
Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia, aye—6; New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Delaware, South Carolina, no—4; North Carolina, absent.
Mr. DICKINSON then moved to annex to his last amendment, “except where by law the appointment shall be vested in the Legislatures or Executives of the several States."
Mr. RANDOLPH seconded the motion.
Mr. Wilson. If this be agreed to, it will soon be a standing instruction to the State Legislatures to pass no law creating offices, unless the appointment be referred to them
Mr. SHERMAN objected to “Legislatures,” in the motion, which was struck out by consent of the movers.
Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS. This would be putting
it in the power of the States to say, "you shall be viceroys, but we will be viceroys over you."
The motion was negatived without a count of the States.
Ordered unanimously, that the order respecting the adjournment at four o'clock be repealed, and that in future the House assemble at ten o'clock, and adjourn at three.
SATURDAY, August 25TH.
In Convention,—The first clause of Article 7, Sect. 1, being reconsidered,
Colonel Mason objected to the term “shall” fulfil the engagements and discharge the debts, &c., as too strong. It may be impossible to comply with it. The creditors should be kept in the same plight. They will in one respect be necessarily and properly in a better. The Government will be more able to pay them. The use of the term shall will beget speculations, and increase the pestilential practice of stock-jobbing. There was a great distinction between original creditors and those who purchased fraudulently of the ignorant and distressed. He did not mean to include those who have bought stock in the open
market. He was sensible of the difficulty of drawing the line in this case, but he did not wish to preclude the attempt. Even fair purchasers, at four, five, six, eight for one, did not stand on the same footing with the first holders, supposing them
not to be blamable. The interest they received, , even in paper, is equal to their purchase money. What he particularly wished was, to leave the door open for buying up the securities, which he thought would be precluded by the terin“shall," as requiring nominal payment, and which was not inconsistent with his ideas of public faith. He was afraid, also, the word "shall” might extend to all the old continental paper.
Mr. LANGDON wished to do no more, than leave the creditors in statu quo.
Mr. Gerry said, that, for himself, he had no interest in the question, being not possessed of more of the securities than would, by the interest, pay his taxes. He would observe, however, that as the public had received the value of the literal amount, they ought to pay that value to somebody. The frauds on the soldiers ought to have been foreseen. These poor and ignorant people, could not but part with their securities. There are other creditors, who will part with any thing, rather than be cheated of the capital of their advances. The interest of the States, he observed, was different on this point; some having more, others less, than their proportion of the paper. Hence the idea of a scale for reducing its value had arisen. If the public faith would admit, of which he was not clear, he would not object to a revision of the debt, so far as to compel restitution to the ignorant and distressed, who have been defrauded. As to stock-jobbers, he saw no reason for the censures thrown on them. They keep up the value of the paper. Without them there would be no market.
Mr. BUTLER said he meant neither to increase nor diminish the security of the creditors.
Mr. RANDOLPH moved to postpone the clause, in favor of the following : “All debts contracted, and engagements entered into, by or under the authority of Congress, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation."
Doctor JOHNSON. The debts are debts of the United States, of the great body of America. Changing the Government cannot change the obligation of the United States, which devolves of course on the new Government. Nothing was, in his opinion, necessary to be said. If any thing, it should be a mere declaration, as moved by Mr. RANDOLPH.
Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS said, he never had become a public creditor, that he might urge with more propriety, the compliance with public faith. He had always done so, and always would, and preferred the term “shall," as the most explicit. As to buying up the debt, the term “shall” was not inconsistent with it, if provision be first made for paying the interest; if not, such an expedient was a mere evasion. He was content to say nothing, as the new Government would be bound of course; but would prefer the clause with the term “shall,” because it would create many friends to the plan.
On Mr. RANDOLPH's motion,
New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye—10; Pennsylvania, no-1.333
Mr. Sherman thought it necessary to connect with