FROM COUNT DE VERGENNES TO B. FRANKLIN.

Translation.

Versailles, 8 August, 1782.

SIR,

I have received the letter of this day, with which you have honored me, and the copy of the power, which Mr. Oswald has communicated to you. The

Great Britain, even in spite of their petitions being repeatedly rejected. That in such case they would have undoubtedly concerted such plan of treaty, as would have not only restored peace, but would have laid a solid bottom of amity and conciliation, and such as would have obliterated from their memory in a short time all remembrance of preceding acts of distress and violence.

"But, by the continued enforcement of the same cruel measures, the minds of the people in general all over that continent were almost totally alienated from Great Britain, so that they detested the very name of an Englishman. That it was true, a number of the older people had not forgot their former connexions, and their inclinations might still lean towards England. But, when they were gone, and the younger generation come to take their place, who had never felt any of those impressions, those inclinations would be succeeded by grudge and resentment of every kind, upon reflecting upon what they had seen, and their parents had suffered; that few of them but could recollect the loss of blood of some relation or other, devastation of their estates, and other misfortunes; on which occasion he ran into a detail of part.culars, as unnecessary as unpleasant here to be repeated; and which I would not have touched upon, if I did not think a free exposure of the features of this conversation may help to form a judgment of what may be expected in the issue, from the determination of this commissioner, and consequently what concessions on this very critical occasion it may be safe and proper to propose or insist upon.

"As information respecting the real sentiments of those gentlemen was the object I principally aimed at in the commencement of this business, I allowed Mr. Jay to go on without interruption, remarking only upon the whole, that, supposing there had been capital mistakes in the direction as well as in the execution of our measures, it would be hard to bring the charge home to the nation in general; and there was a good deal to be said even in excuse of the ministers, who presided over the conduct of those measures, considering that they were not personally acquainted with the circumstances of that country, and therefore could not but naturally listen to the information they received

form in which it appears is not that which is usual on similar occasions, but it has not prevented me from forming my opinion in the first instance. I have bestowed the greatest attention on it, and, if you will be so good as to favor me with a visit on Saturday morning, I shall confer with you and Mr. Jay, if it will be convenient for him to accompany you. I have the honor to be, most sincerely, Sir, &c.

DE VERGENNES.

from those, who were so acquainted; who came over from America as refugees, and who had upon all occasions insisted, that we had so great a proportion of friends in all the colonies, as to require only a temporary support from government to bring every thing back to the original state of peace and subordination; that it was the search after those friends of government, which, in consequence of personal interference and correspondence in writing, has kept up and encouraged a continuance of the measures of coercion complained of, until they brought on at last the present unfortunate crisis.

"Mr. Jay admitted that some blame was justly to be imputed to the misrepresentation of the refugees, and other correspondents above mentioned, who, he said, at least many of them, were in a particular manner concerned, on account of their private interest, to have things brought back by any means to their original state.

"He returned to the subject of independence, as not being satisfied with its being left as a matter of treaty. I said the method proposed was much the same as what he meant, and perhaps such as the nature of the British constitution made necessary. Independence on Great Britain, in the most complete sense, would be granted without any reserve, always supposing that their States should be equally independent of other nations. And so the treaty might proceed, in the course which was thus marked out for it, until it ended in peace. He said, peace was very desirable, and the sooner the better. But the great point was, to make such a peace as should be lasting. This brought back my attention to the same expression in Count de Vergennes' discourse in April, when I first had the honor to wait on him, and the more so, that, almost in every conversation I have had with Dr. Franklin, he has made use of the same words, and delivered as in the way of aphorism, and as an indispensable principle, in the foundation of a final settlement with them and France.

"I never at these times chose to ask for an explanation, having no right to do so. I thought it was then too early to venture on such delicate ground, and so I remained at a loss, as to the intended meaning of the words, although I strongly suspected the expression pointed

FROM ROBERT R. LIVINGSTON TO B. FRANKLIN.

Sir Guy Carleton and Admiral Digby. - Compensation to Loyalists. - Fisheries. - Western Lands.

Philadelphia, 9 August, 1782.

DEAR SIR, Having written to Mr. Jay, who I presume is with you, I do not think it necessary to repeat what I have mentioned to him. We have not heard from you since March; a very long period, considering the interesting events that have taken place between that time and this. Many vessels have arrived without bringing us a line from you. I am apprehensive that Mr. Barclay does not communicate to you the frequent opportunities that offer of writing. I shall write to him. upon the subject.

Sir Guy Carleton and Admiral Digby have informed the General, that a negotiation for a general peace is now on foot, and that the King, his master, has agreed to yield the independence of America without making it conditional. I shall enclose a copy of his letter at

at some unpleasant or unfavorable limitation on the conduct of Great Britain. But now, being in a somewhat different situation, and having so fair an opportunity, which I wished not to miss, in order to guess at the meaning of this phrase, I replied, that such long intermission of war was certainly very desirable. But what security could there be given for a continuance of peace, but such as generally put an end to all wars, being that of treaty; but which was often found to be a very inadequate security, as was the case of the last treaty, concluded at this place only twenty years ago.

"To this Mr. Jay replied, he would not give a farthing for any parchment security whatever. They had never signified any thing since the world began, when any prince or state, of either side, found it convenient to break through them. But the peace he meant was such, or so to be settled, that it should not be the interest of either party to violate it. This, he said, was the only security that could be proposed, to prevent those frequent returns of war, by which the world was kept in continual disturbance." - Paris, August 7th. MS. Letter

large, which refers to another object, the exchange of prisoners. This great point once yielded, I see nothing that will obstruct your negotiations, except three points of discussion, which I have before written to you about. I wish it had been possible to obtain the estimates I mention, as they might have been rendered useful to you upon one of them. But the negligence of the governors, or legislatures of the several States, have rendered all my endeavours hitherto unsuccessful, notwithstanding repeated promises to give this subject their earliest attention. The restoration of confiscated property has become utterly impossible, and the attempt would throw the country into the utmost confusion.

The fisheries are too important an object for you to lose sight of; and, as to the back lands, I do not conceive that England can seriously expect to derive any benefit from them, that will be equivalent to the jealousy that the possession of them would awaken and keep alive between her and this country. I transmit to you a bill for seventy-one thousand three hundred and eighty livres, being the amount of one quarter's salary to yourself, and Messrs. Jay, Adams, Carmichael, Dana, and Dumas. No provision is made for the private secretaries, or contingencies, not having been furnished with an account of them. I also send bills for the first quarter, commencing in January, so that you will, on the receipt of this, be enabled to pay one half year's salary to our ministers and their secretaries.

I just now learn, that Carleton has published his and Digby's letter to the General. The design of this must either be, to see whether the people of this country will catch so eagerly at the proposition for a peace, which yields them their independence, as to be careless about the alliance, or to impress us with an

idea, that we are more indebted for our freedom to the generosity of Great Britain, than to the attention of France to our interests in the general treaty. It is not to be doubted, that the good sense and the gratitude of this country will defeat both these objects. I have the honor to be, &c.

ROBERT R. LIVINGSTON.

P. S. If Mr. Jay should not be at Paris, I must beg you to open and decipher for him the letter of this month, and the resolution contained therein, marked on the back, below the seal, August, and send it to him by the earliest opportunity.

TO ROBERT R. LIVINGSTON.

Accounts between France and the United States. Sweden ready to treat. Medal commemorative of the Victories at Saratoga and Yorktown. Monument procured in Paris. — Delays in the Negotiation.

SIR,

Passy, 12 August, 1782.

I have lately been honored with your several letters, of March 9th, and May 22d, and 30th.* The paper, containing a state of the commerce in North America, and explaining the necessity and utility of convoys for its protection, I have laid before the minister, accompanied by a letter, pressing that it be taken into immediate consideration; and I hope it may be attended with success.

The order of Congress, for liquidating the accounts

* See Diplomatic Correspondence, Vol III. pp. 315, 357.