FEB. 18, 1828.]

Military Appropriations.

[H. of R.

results, than that of West Point. The Superintendent appertaining to these subjects. These separate reports and Faculty have not only the most critical duties, lite of the sub-committees, with scarcely any, even verbal rary, scientific, and professional, to discharge, but they alterations, were incorporated into the general report, have confided to their care the moral culture and the by the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. EVERETT] formation of the character, of an interesting portion of Mr. H. said, he had made this statement with the less rethe youth of our country. It is surely of vast importance, luctance, as it enabled him to rebut an insinuation, that the manner in which these offices are discharged which was unkindly made the other day, that the Fato the country should be vouched through respectable culty at West Point prepared these reports for the Board and responsible organs; and he thought that the testi- of Visiters-a declaration altogether erroneous and unmony thus procured, not only in its influence on the in-just, as the report to which he referred was made withstitution, but as a satisfaction to the country, was cer out the slightest communication with the Superintendent tainly worth securing, if it could be accomplished at so or Professors. He would now say a single word, before trifling a cost as $1,500. He regretted the course the he concluded, in reference to the compensation which debate had taken. When the House was in Committee of the members of the Board received for their attendance the Whole on Friday last, and had this item under con- at West Point, and he could not do this more effectualsideration, it was certainly a matter of small criticism, ly, than by stating what he had received himself, and indeed, for them to be discussing, who did and who did the labors he underwent, he could not say performed. not write the reports; whether the gentleman from He received an invitation, whilst in Charleston, from the Ohio, [Mr. VANCE] wrote the report prefixed to his Secretary of War, to attend the examination on the 1st of name, was very unimportant, as he [Mr. H.] was certain June. For his passage from Charleston to New York, by of the fact, that this gentleman had discharged his du- water, and his expenses thence to West Point, he receiv ties in an honorable, faithful, and intelligent manner, of ed thirty-five dollars, and the quartermaster paid him a which he required no other assurance, than what he similar sum for his expenses on his return home. knew of that gentleman as his colleague, on the com- In pocketing this enormous amount, he confessed he mittee to which they both belonged. It was not neces- had no very alarming twinges of conscience. The sary, that every member of this Board should possess Board met at 5 o'clock, A. M. and sat until 8; they met high scientific acquirements; it was sufficient that some again at 9, and sat until 2 P. M.-convened at 3, and adof them should possess these qualifications, and that journed at 7. After this laborious confinement, he conothers, to sound practical sense, should add an acquaint- fessed that the appetite with which he ate his meals, ance with military details and the business of life: and was not affected by the reflection that it was the public that all should furnish, in the integrity of their own cha-food-as he believed he had honestly earned it, as he racters, a guarantee for the fidelity of their report. The did his present compensation. He could not say that gentleman from Rhode Island, [Mr. PEARCE] has made he understood every thing that he saw and heard for he it a matter of grave criticism, whether he [Mr. H.] actu- did not profess to be a master of the complex and ab. ally wrote a report, as President of the Board of Visiters, stract relations of the higher mathematics, but he trustto which his [Mr. H's] name is appended; and all the ed that, within the scope of a very plain understanding, credit of this document, if any belongs to it, he has im- he had observed enough of the prosperity and admirable puted to the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. Ev-progress of this noble institution, to authorize his putting ERETT] whose services on the Board were undoubtedly his hand to the report which he had done. He never of the most interesting and valuable character. This had been engaged in an avocation more laborious, or in conjecture of the gentleman from Rhode Island, he did a duty more satisfactory; and if he left the Institution not impute to a notion, that he believed, nevertheless, with any impression stronger than the absolute convicwas common in the part of the country from which he tion of its inestimable usefulness to the country, it was came, that nobody could write, out of New England; this; that its annual examination, by intelligent and but, since it was made a matter of serious inquisition, respectable men, was an essential auxiliary to its future he would tell, to the best of his knowledge and belief, success and prosperity. the history of the progress and ultimate formation of this report. After the Board had completed its examination, it appointed sub-committees, for the purpose of report- Mr. BASSETT then moved to strike out the whole ing upon its specific heads; that his honorable friend item. He had no question as to the importance and vafrom Massachusetts, [Mr. EVERETT] and Mr. Bancroft, lue of the Board of Visiters. His objections to this ap a gentleman scarcely less distinguished in the literature propriation arose from an entirely different principle. of his own State, were appointed to report on the course He had been greatly surprised by the course of arguof instruction in the languages and mathematics, to ment when this subject was last up. It had been but which they both contributed an interesting memoir on a few days since, the House almost unanimously passed the method of instruction. He believed, in the mathe-a resolution declaring that it was necessary to examine inmatical branch of their sub-report, they were assisted to the public abuses. But, when he compared the arguby a summary of the mathematical problems which had ments on that occasion, with those employed on this apbeen solved by the cadets, from the memoranda of Profes-propriation, he felt greatly astonished, and could hardly sor Dewey, a distinguished mathematician, who resided believe that he was in the same region. Talk of abuses? in the district of the gentleman from Massachusetts on and as soon as you are presented with a bare-faced abuse, his left, [Mr. DwIGHT.] To Mr. Skinner, the able Edi- to turn round and justify it! Am I not justified, said Mr. tor of the American Farmer, and some other members B., in calling this an abuse? that the duties performed of the Board, was confided the duty of reporting on may be very valuable, I do not dispute; but will you what might be termed the civil economy and civil po- sanction, in the Executive branch of this Government, Lice of the institution. To Colonet Eustis, Colonel Wal- the power to appoint persons-prescribe their duties, bach, and himself, [Mr. H] was assigned the office of and pay for their performance, without the sanction of lereporting upon the method of instruction in military gislative enactment? Is not the Constitution plainly tactics proper, with the duties of troops in camp and on against it, as well as all the arguments used by gentlemarches, and on castrametation and strategy, and in re- men on the other side? Here is an appointing pow ference to the military discipline of the institution ge-er without limit, as to the extent of time or the number nerally. With the able assistance of these two gentle- of persons, and the whole Treasury is thrown open for men, he [Mr. H] had prepared that part of the report their payment. Gentlemen tell us, indeed, that the Exe

The question was now put on the amendment of Mr. INGHAM, and negatived without a division.

|

[FEB. 18, 1828.

The question being then put, the motion of Mr. BasSETT was rejected.

Mr. M'DUFFIE then moved to amend the bill in the third section, by inserting in the 7th line the words "by competent authority, or received into the service by any general officer of the United States." So that that section of the bill shall read, "That the Secretary of War be authorized and required to settle, adjust, and pay, in conformity with the provisions of the act of the second of January, one thousand seven hundred and ninety five, service, the claims of the Militia and Indians of the State of Illinois and Territory of Michigan called out by competent authority, or received into the service by any general officer of the United States, on the occasion of the recent Indian disturbances; and that the sum of thirty thousand dollars be appropriated for the aforesaid objects, to be paid out of any money in the Treasury, not otherwise appropriated."

Mr. DUNCAN opposed the amendment, inasmuch as some of the militia, whose services in the late transactions on Fever river, &c. had been accepted by Colonel Snelling, would be excluded from the benefits of the bill.

Mr. M'DUFFIE said, that the clause, as it now stood, covered every claim of this nature that ought to be admitted. It had not been the practice of the Government to pay or to indemnify all persons who might have voluntarily associated in offensive operations against an enemy; but only such whose services had been recognised by the competent authority, and sanctioned by the General Government.

cutive discretion will limit all this. I ask, does the Con- is at least complimentary in its character, while he restitution admit it? or can language more plainly forbid it tains a seat here: and though we now propose to allow than does that instrument? The gentleman from Flori- only his expenses, yet there is no limit nor safeguard. da, indeed, read, with some exultation, what he consi-The same principle would authorize the enlargement of dered as definitive authority on this subject; and what the emoluments to any extent. To such a principle I was his authority? The army regulations: and by whom can never lend my sanction. were these enacted? By Congress? No: by the War Department. I admit the arrangement to be an excellent one; but, be it ever so good, it is one which devolves on us; the duty is ours; and it is our shame and reproach that we have not done it before. But let us now do our duty, though it be at a late hour. Let us not use the abuses of the past, as a mantle to cover abuses for the future. Let us have a Board of Visiters; but let that Board exist by law, and let the law fix and authorize their compensation. The danger of the principle on which the matter now stood, was plainly illus-regulating the pay of the Militia, when called into actual trated by the remarks of the gentleman from Vermont, [Mr. MALLARY] who said that it was important that a knowledge of this institution, and of the progress and relative standing of the cadets, should be disseminated through the nation. On this principle, I suppose we shall hear that one member of the Visiting Board must be taken from every State in the Union; and as the Executive may go to the ultimate of its discretion, very possibly they may require two members from the larger States: see, then, to what a body this Board may grow. A gentleman from Massachusetts, with more of liberality than had been exhibited by some others, had admitted that there should be a limit fixed, and contended that this limit is established by the appropriation. But I confess that I see no limit at all. We have given the Department $1,500, while, before, they had nothing and they still have the same contingent fund within their grasp as they had before. The same gentleman has said, that we ought to pay the expense of the Visiters only while they are in actual attendance at West Point. But, take the doctrine of the gentleman who is at the head of the Committee of Ways and Means for our principle, and where is our limit then? That gentleman tells you that, if the Executive has made a contract, and a work has been performed under it, the House is bound to make the appropriation. If so, it is nonsense to talk about limiting the Executive. He has no limit whatever as to the States whence the Visiters are to be taken, the length of time they are to serve, the number of the Board, or the compensation they are to receive. All this may be embraced in a law. If the Executive wished for such power, he might have recommended the subject to the Legislature, and obtained it in a regular manner. The regulation read by the "And that the expenses of transportation, supplies, gentleman from Florida, said, that the Board was to con- materials, ferriage, and work, incident to the expedition, sist of not less than five members. But the number has shall be settled according to the justice of the claim, and already grown to 11, 12, and sometimes to 14 members. with strict regard to the law and usage heretofore estabI hope the House will either agree to reject the doc-lished for the settlement of such claims." trine of limiting the Executive, or reject this item of the bill, and that we shall not take up a doctrine one day and lay it down the next, just as may suit gentlemen's temporary convenience. We have been told that it be longs to an appropriation bill merely to provide the means of carrying into effect pre-existing laws. But Mr. M'DUFFIE observed, that he was aware the estihere, no law is so much as pretended. But we are call-mate from the Department for this item was $45,000— ed upon to sanction, by a side-wind, a lawless assump- he was not willing to go to this extent. He would give, tion of power by the Executive. One word more, and in addition to the pay allowed by the act of 1795, such I have done. We are all sensible of the extent of the allowances as would amount, in all, to $40,000; but he Executive patronage, and it seems generally agreed that would not go farther than this, lest the House might be that patronage ought not to be extended without urgent considered as giving its sanction to the whole of the esnecessity. Now, there is no form in which it exists, timate sent from the Department on this subject, and which strikes me so unfavorably as this. All have de- which included the payment of the whole of the expenclared that no man, while a member of this House, can ses of what had been called the regulating companyreceive and hold any Executive appointment; but here who had been guilty of many illegal acts and unwarrantis a case in the very teeth of that declaration: he re- able depredations on private property. He was oppos. ceives an appointment which, if not of honor and profit, ed to allowing the claims of any voluntary association,

Mr. DWIGHT said, that he understood that at least one company of the volunteers in the late Indian disturbances had been accepted by Colonel Snelling, who, though not a General officer of the United States, was a field officer. He therefore suggested the insertion of the words "or field" so that the amendment shall read whose services have been accepted by any general or field officer of the United States. This was accepted by Mr. M'DUFFIE as a modification of his amendment.

Mr. DUNCAN then moved to add the following clause:

And the question being put, the amendment was adopted.

Mr. DUNCAN then further moved to fill the blank for the pay and incidental expenses of the militia, with the sum of $44,337 83 cents.

Indian Appropriations.

while engaged in such transactions. The House, he thought, should take this opportunity of establishing that principle, and he hoped that the payment would be Mr. McLEAN (Chairman of the Committee on Indian put on the footing only of quartermaster's supplies. Affairs) said he could see no need of inserting this word He concluded with moving to fill the blank with $40,000.-a bill had been prepared and reported by the Indian Mr. DUNCAN expressed his belief that $40,000 Committee to provide aid for the removal of the Chickamight be sufficient; but he had moved the larger sum to saws, and would soon come up in order. guard against the contingency of its proving insufficient. No evil would arise from such a step, because no claims would in either case be allowed except according to law. The question was then put on the larger sum moved by Mr. DUNCAN, and negatived, and the blank was filled with $40,000.

1585

H. OF R.]

Indian Appropriations.

all the Southern Indians, as the same policy applied to

them all.

Mr. HOFFMAN had no desire to interfere in a matter of this kind, but he was one of those who believed that the United States' Government is bound to take the earliest opportunity of extinguishing the Indian title to lands in Georgia; and he desired the Chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs to state whether that was not the object intended to be provided for in this appropriation.

Mr. McLEAN replied in the affirmative. Mr. HOFFMAN replied, if that was the case, he thought there was good reason why the amendment should not be adopted. Every reflecting man must be anxious to see the compact of 1802 fulfilled in good faith. But the Chickasaws were not involved in its provisions, and stood upon an entirely different footing. Mr. WOODS, of Ohio, wished to know whether the provision for the Cherokees was introduced in fulfilment of any treaty with that tribe.

remove.

[FEB. 18, 1828.

lowed him a boundless discretion, or else it was a barren appropriation, effecting nothing. When the bill which had been reported by the Committee on Indian Affairs should come up, the whole subject would be open for discussion; but, at present, such an appropriation would be perfectly anomalous in a regular annual appropriation bill for the Indian Department. It was well known, that the regular expenses of that Department amounted to ed to about $80,000, while the fund for contingencies less than the irregular expenses of it—the former amountwas $95,000.

Mr. B. said he could not vote understandingly in this matter, unless he had the means of inquiring further into it. He would go heart and hand with the gentleman, if the Indians were troublesome neighbors, and they wished to get rid of them, provided this could be done without injuring other People. The bill says, "to emigrate west of the Mississippi." Now, it was not the first time that Indians had been brought from other parts of the country, and placed down in the bosom and very heart of the Here he enumerated the State from which he came. Kickapoos, Weas, and several other tribes, who had thus been removed. He said his constituents, many of them, lived, to be sure, in the woods, and were on the borders of the republic-but still they had some desire to improve their situation, as well as other people-and they did not wish to have a body of Indians placed down in the midst of them by their Government, and still less, if the power to do this was to be exercised by a sub-agent of the War Department. If once the promise was given to the Indians, although by an unauthorized agent, they would count upon its fulfilment. They knew none of our disThe gentinctions as to authorized and unauthorized officers of the Government, and if the promise was not fulfilled, their sense of justice and good faith was shocked. tleman from Mississippi, however, need fear no opposi tion from him, with respect to the removal of his Chickasaws, if he would only act on the good old maxim, so use your own as not to injure others. Mr. B. concluded by saying he should vote against all propositions like that now moved.

Mr. McLEAN replied, that it had been inserted in conformity with the compact between the United States and Georgia, by which compact it became the duty of the General Government, at all times, to stand in readiness to extinguish the Indian title within that State, so soon as it could be done on reasonable and peaceable terms. The subject to which the gentleman from Mississippi alluded, had been among the very first to which the Committee on Indian Affairs gave their attention: and they had accordingly reported a bill providing for the request of that tribe, that they might be permitted first to examine the land proposed to be given them, be. fore they should decide on relinquishing what they at present possessed. It would be surely improper to provide for extinguishing their title at this time, when it was but a few months ago that they had expressly refused to He was therefore at a loss to know where was the ground for the complaints of injustice so loudly made by the gentleman from Mississippi. The estimates of the Department had been referred to the Indian ComMr. HAILE replied, and again insisted on the topics mittee; their report upon them had been approved by the Committee of Ways and Means; and this last committee had, in consequence, inserted the item in the bill. he had already urged. He referred to the forbearance Mr. HAILE replied, and insisted upon the ground he which had been exercised by his State, on the subject of had formerly taken. $ 50,000 had formerly been appro- the Indians within her limits. In 1820, a country had priated in the case of the Creeks, and now $ 50,000 been given to the Indians, west of the Mississippi, in the more are proposed, although the Creeks say positively Territory of Arkansas-but they had been resisted, when But the Chickasaws have written removing thither, by a body of 2,000 men, and driven they will not remove. a letter to the Governor, signifying their willingness to back, in violation of treaty. The General Government emigrate, and yet they are to be excluded from the bill. had not protected their rights, or punished the offenders; An appropriation in their case, Mr. H. insisted, was the but, instead of this, had extended the line of that Terrionly one from which the Government could derive the tory, so as to include these trespassers within its limits. least shadow of benefit. He thought a new system of Still, neither Alabama nor the Chickasaws had been clalegislation was getting into this House, by which an ap-morous in their complaints. The State, by solemn compropriation bill was made the lever to force measures in pact, had reserved the right to extend her laws over the favor of one section of the country to the injury of ano- tribes within her boundary, but had forborne, from mo, ther. He protested against this, and then proceeded tives of humanity, to exercise that power. And now, when her Representative had been the first to introduce again to urge the claims of the Chickasaws. the subject to the Hous, he was to be crowded out of the appropriation bill, &c.

Mr. BATES, of Missouri, said he understood this to be a bill regularly reported every year, providing for the ordinary annual expenses of the Indian Department. If special objects were to be provided for, special appropriations ought to be made to meet them; and if such an object as was contemplated by the amendment, was to be brought into this bill, all other special objects might as well be brought into it. In addition to this, something might be said on the question where the Government meant to invite these Indians to settle. He was aware that it would not be in order to discuss that question at this time. One objection to the amendment was this, that it gave unlimited authority to the officer at the head of the War Department, to give direction to the march of this tribe when it should remove,

Mr. SPRAGUE said that, in justice to the Committee on Indian Affairs, it was proper to state, that, if any complaint at all was made in this matter, it should be against the Committee of Ways and Means. The item came from that committee in the same manner as every other item in the bill. It was not the Committee of Indian Affairs that had placed it there. They had only reported in favor of a measure which appeared to them expedient and proper.

Hr hoped the House would not go into a ge neral discussion of all our Indian affairs on the present bill. It was very evident that gentlemen in all parts of the House were alive to the subject, and it must be acIt either al-knowledged, that it was one attended with extreme dif

FEB. 18, 1828.]

Indian Appropriations.

[H. OF R.

Government to provide for the removal of the Florida Indians, as any compact or convention can require. The miserable condition of these people has been presented to you, by your own officers, in a language not soon to be forgotten. You have been told that they cannot subsist within their present assigned limits, and must starve, or plunder their neighbors. An appropriation has been made by Congress to feed them re-examinations or dered by the Secretary of War, and a return again made by General Gaines, that they cannot live within their li mits. A very respectable and highly distinguished officer, Colonel Clinch, of the 4th regiment of infantry, at tended General Gaines on the last examination, and he concurs in the opinion that they must steal or starve. Now, sir, the claims of Georgia may be strong, but how can we, looking to the humanity and policy of our Government, and, moreover, referring to the certainty of future collision, which must be attended with the loss of blood and treasure, and demands for indemnity, refuse to place the two objects on the same footing? If this mo for our object, to that in this bill, and include the Chickasaw and Florida Indians, I should be glad to see it carMr. WHITE said he should only detain the committee ried; but, in its present form, I am opposed to it, witha few minutes at this late hour of the day. If there was out including ours. I can inform the gentleman from any merit in having the subject first proposed in the Missouri, that it is not contemplated to locate the Indians House, the gentleman from Mississippi would do him the within his State, but west of it, and north of Arkansas, justice to say, that his was the second proposition on this and upon lands to which the United States have an unsubject, having been moved as an amendment to the re-disputed title, not within the limits of any State or Terrisolution of that gentleman, referred to in debate, and tory.

ficulty at all times. Mr. S. said he had himself had many and great difficulties to surmount in assenting to the appropriation already agreed to, and he hoped that, in a mere incidental debate, the general policy of the removal of the Indians would not have to be taken up and decided. It had forced itself on his observation, since he had been a member of this House, as a great evil in the mode of its legislation, that subjects of the greatest weight were forced upon the House in the most unexpected manner, by mere incidental motions. The consequence was, that they were discussed when gentlemen were not fully prepared for them, and hours and days were wasted on questions not properly connected with the main subject before the House. There were special reasons applying to the case of the Creeks and Cherokees, which did not apply to the other Indian tribes. If the Chickasaws were introduced, all the other Indians would have to follow, because gentlemen stood ready to introduce them, to whose States they were as great an annoyance as the Chickasaws were to the State of Mississippi. The same argument would be urged in every case, and there would be notion was to add the appropriation of $ 15,000, reported end to the amendments. He hoped, therefore, that now proposed, would not prevail.

which would have been moved in a separate form, if it Mr. LUMPKIN said, he perceived the subject was had not been adopted in conjunction with that. This, misunderstood, and this could arise only from a want of said Mr. W., is a subject of deep interest to the Territo-attention on the part of the House. He was aware that ry I represent; and, if the amendment now proposed, this was not the time for a general discussion of our be adopted, I shall feel myself bound to move to insert in Indian affairs. He thought the remarks of the gentlethis bill the Florida Indians. I do not wish to embarrass man from Missouri [Mr. BATES] were well worthy of atthe amendment of the member from Mississippi, but he tention. But he thought this was not the time or place must perceive that the success of his motion will leave for considering it. Mr. L. said he would endeavor to me in a worse situation than the one in which he is plac-point out the distinction between the cases of the ed. The bill reported by the Committee on Indian Af Creeks and Cherokees, and that of the Chickasaws and fairs, provides an appropriation for the purpose of ena- other tribes. The amendment proposed by the Com. bling "the Chickasaw and other Indians," to explore the mittee of Ways and Means, and which provides for the country west of the Mississippi. Now, sir, I understand removal of the Creeks and Cherokees, had been introthat the other Indians' in the bill, are those which are duced in consequence of the estimates received from the the annoyance of my constituents; and, if the Chickasaws War Department, in relation to that subject. When are now included in this bill, I shall be without a loop those estimates came into the House, they were referto hang a hope upon; and I now give notice, that, if red, as of course, to the Committee of Ways and Means. this succeeds, I will not depend on the remote hope of That committee very properly moved for their referreaching the other bill, but also move my amendment. ence to the Committee on Indian Affairs. This latter I cannot concur with the gentleman from Maine, [Mr. Committee had carefully examined the estimates, and SPRAGUE] that this is not the time or place to discuss this had reported favorably upon the subject. It was then subject. The subject now under consideration, as legiti- sent back to the Committee of Ways and Means. mately belongs to this bill, as the proposed appropriation Mr. L. said, that, as a member of the Committee on for the Creeks and Cherokees. Where is the difference? Indian Affairs, he had expected this item to be provided The member from Maine, who is a constituent member for in a separate bill, but the Committee of Ways and of the Committee of Ways and Means, says this subject Means had thought otherwise, and had concluded to comes from the War Department, has been sanctioned by provide for it in the present appropriation bill. Now the Committee on Indian Affairs, and is contained in the distinction which gave a preference to the Creeks a certain convention between Georgia and the United and Cherokees was, that a treaty had already been made States. Now, sir, I tell that gentleman, that the subject with the Creeks, which could not be fulfilled, without of the removal of the Florida and Chickasaw Indians also a part of this appropriation, and the residue was equalcomes from the War Department, under grave recom-ly necessary to enable the Government to fulfil its commendations, and has also met the favorable consideration pact with Georgia, in relation to the Cherokees. of the standing committee of this House, to whom the such treaty or compact applied to the other tribes. It subject appropriately belongs. So far the parallel is was the understanding of the committee that the applicacomplete and, as to the convention with Georgia, I can- tion of this sum depended on the free consent of the Innot agree that, on that account, one shall be placed in a dians; neither force nor favor was to be made use of. If regular appropriation bill, and the other left to the un- their removal could be effected, on such terms, it was certainty of its fate, at a session that promises so little. I well; if not, the means appropriated would remain in ardently hope that Georgia may succeed in having her the hands of the Government. But without the approconvention executed to the letter and spirit. But, sir, priation, it was impossible that the Government could fulthe obligations of humanity, and the imperative dictates fil its compact with Georgia. Mr. L. said he would not of sound policy, impose as strong an injunction on this enter, at this time, on the subject of the claims of that VOL. IV-97

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