who deny that there is any such thing as matter. But, sir, have the United States always received the Ministers that are sent to them from foreign powers? How long did the person who was appointed diplomatic agent here from Spain (Don Onis) linger in your antechambers before he was acknowledged? And is it said that the situation of Greece approaches more nearly to independence than that of Spain when Don Onis came here as her Minister? Sir, let these Greeks send a Minister to us, and then we will deliberate on the question whether we will accredit him or not. If, indeed, there was a Minister of Greece knocking at the door of the President's antechamber for admittance, and that admittance was denied, the question of Grecian independence would be more legitimately before us; but I greatly doubt if even that case would be sufficient to call for the interference of this House.

[H. OF R.

ously reflect on the work they have cut out for us? Why, sir, these projects of ambition surpass those of Bonaparte himself.

It has once been said, of the dominions of the King of Spain-thank God! it can no longer be said that the sun never set upon them. Sir, the sun never sets on ambition like this: they who have once felt its scorpion sting are never satisfied with a limit less than a circle, of our planet. I have heard, sir, the late corruscation in the heavens attempted to be accounted for by the return of the lunar cycle, the moon having got back into the same relative position in which she was nineteen years ago. How ever this may be, I am afraid, sir, that she exerts too potent an influence over our legislation, or will have done so, if we agree to adopt the resolution on your table. I think about once in seven or eight years, for that seems to be the term of our political cycle, we may cal

pion-like him who prances into Westminster Hall, armed cap-a-pie, like Sir Somebody Dimock, at the coronation of the British King, challenging all who dispute the title of the Sovereign to the Crown-coming into this House, mounted on some magnificent project, such as this. But, sir, I never expected, that, of all places in the world, (except Salem,) a proposition like this should have come from Boston!

But, Mr. R. said, there was one aspect of this,culate upon beholding some redoubted chamquestion which, to him it appeared, ought to be conclusive on the minds of all, viz: That Russia, whose designs on Turkey have been unremittingly prosecuted ever since the days of Peter the Great for more than a century; that Russia, allied to the Greeks in religious faith-identified in that respect; that Russia, unassailable territorially, and dividing with us (according to the gentleman from Massachusetts) the dread and apprehension of the Allied Powers-even Russia, in "juxtaposition" (to use the words of the mover of the resolution) to Turkey-even Russia dare not move. But we, who are separated first by the Atlantic Ocean, and then have to traverse the Mediterranean Sea to arrive at the seat of conflict-we, at the distance of five thousand miles, are to interfere in this quarrel -to what purpose? To the advantage solely of this very colossal power which has been held up as the great object of our dread, and of whom it is difficult to say whether it is more to be dreaded for its physical force, or its detestable principle.

Permit me, sir, to ask why, in the selection of an enemy to the doctrines of our Government, and a party to those advanced by the Holy Alliance, we should fix on Turkey? She, at least, forms no party to that alliance; and I venture to say, that, for the last century, her conduct, in reference to her neighbors, has been much more Christian than that of all the "Most Christian," "Most Catholic," or "Most Faithful" Majesties of Europe-for she has not interfered, as we propose to do, in the internal affairs of other nations.

Sir, I am afraid, that, along with some most excellent attributes and qualities-the love of liberty, jury trial, the writ of habeas corpus, and all the blessings of free government, that we have derived from our Anglo-Saxon ancestors, we have got not a little of their John Bull, or rather John Bull Dog spirit-their readiness to fight for anybody, and on any occasion. Sir, England has been for centuries the game cock of Europe. It is impossible to specify the wars in which she has been engaged for contrary purposes; and she will, with great pleasure, see us take off her shoulders the labor of preserving the balance of power. We find her fighting, now, for the Queen of Hungary-then, for her inveterate foe, the King of Prussia-now at war for the restoration of the Bourbons-and now on the eve of war with them for the liberties of Spain. These lines on the subject were never more applicable than they have now become

"Now Europe's balanced-neither side prevails; For nothing's left in either of the scales." If we pursue the same policy, we must travel But, sir, we have not done. Not satisfied the same road, and endure the same burdens, with attempting to support the Greeks, one under which England now groans. But, Mr. world, like that of Pyrrhus or Alexander, is R. said, glorious as such a design might be, a not sufficient for us. We have yet another President of the United States would, in his world for exploits: we are to operate in a coun-apprehension, occupy a prouder place in history, try distant from us eighty degrees of latitude, and only accessible by a circumnavigation of the globe, and to subdue which we must cover the Pacific with our ships, and the tops of the Andes with our soldiers. Do gentlemen seriVOL. VII.-42

who, when he retires from office, can say to the people who elected him, I leave you without a debt, than if he had fought as many pitched battles as Cæsar, or achieved as many naval victories as Nelson. And what, said Mr. R.,

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[JANUARY, 1824.

is debt? In an individual, it is slavery. It is | second, as well as the first founder of our Reslavery of the worst sort, surpassing that of public-by him who was the Camillus, as well the West India islands, for it enslaves the mind as the Romulus, of the infant state-to the as well as it enslaves the body; and the creature policy of peace, commerce, and honest friendwho can be abject enough to incur and to sub- ship with all nations, entangling alliances with mit to it, receives in that condition of his being none: for to entangling alliances we must come, Of course, Mr. R. if you once embark in projects such as this. an adequate punishment. said, he spoke of debt, with the exception of And, with all his British predilections, Mr. R. He spoke of debt said, he suspected he should, whenever that unavoidable misfortune. caused by the mismanagement, by unwarrant- question should present itself, resist as strongly able generosity, by being generous before being an alliance with Great Britain as with any just. Mr. R. knew that this sentiment was other power. We were sent here, he said, to ridiculed by Sheridan, whose lamentable end attend to the preservation of the peace of this was the best commentary upon its truth. No, country, and not to be ready, on all occasions, sir. Let us abandon these projects. Let us say to go to war whenever any thing like what in to those seven millions of Greeks: "We defend- common parlance is termed a turn up takes ed ourselves, when we were but three millions, place in Europe. against a power, in comparison to which the Turk is but as a lamb. Go and do thou likewise." And, said Mr. R., so with respect to If, after the Governments of South America. haying achieved their independence, they have not valor to maintain it, I would not commit the safety and independence of this country in such a cause. I will, in both these cases, pursue the same line of conduct which I have ever pursued, from the day I took a seat in this House in '99; from which, without boasting, I challenge any gentleman to fix upon me any colorable charge of departure.

These, sir, said Mr. R., are some of the views which I have taken of the subject. There are other views of it which I might take, but from which I abstain (I may be permitted to say) out of self-respect, as well as from respect for this committee.

I can, however, assure the committee, for one, that the public burdens on those whom I represent here, (though they are certainly better off than those to the north and the west of them-that is, till you come to the favored States, where the interest of the public debt is paid, and where almost all the public The condition of my strength, said Mr. R., or, moneys are disbursed,) are greater than they can bear, because their private engagements rather, of my weakness, admonishes me to conclude; but I cannot sit down without remark- are greater than they can discharge; and if ing, that the state of the world is at this mo- this is not a self-evident proposition, I am at a ment unexampled. We are now carrying on a loss to know what can be such. And this unipiratical war against the maritime banditti of versal distress in the country has been the the West Indies. The buccaneers are revived. effect of freaks of legislation. I do not deny At what expense of life, of health, of treasure, but there may be some who have drawn great that war is carried on, perhaps every member prizes in the lottery, but that is not the case of this committee knows better than I-but, sir, with the great mass of the nation. And what to what may this resolution lead? To the in- is this scheme but a lottery? If it should end vesting those banditti, and the banditti of all in war, there will be more great prizes to be the rest of the world, with formal commissions, drawn; but it will be for me, those whom I which the maritime courts of every country in represent, to pay them. I have been acquainted Europe would be bound to respect-and, said with my constituents a long time to little purMr. R., I should not be surprised if some of the pose, and have greatly mistaken their disposi renegadoes, whom we have admitted to the tion and present temper of mind, if they are in privileges of citizens, or the yet more spurious any such "melting mood." The freaks of legisoffspring of our own soil, should take those lation to which I have referred, the vast expencommissions to cruise against our commerce. ditures which begot the necessities for overThat such conduct would not be without ex-issues of paper-money-that system, compared ample, the records of our courts will show.

with which all the evils of Pandora's box are have brought both England and It is not, then, the mere power of Turkey blessings which you are to encounter, supposing that you America to this distress. The two cases are stop short with the original resolution. But strictly parallel-they run on all fours-and, you do not-you go further-out of the frying if this resolution be adopted, not merely simpan into the fire the amendment of the gen-ilar, but yet more disastrous consequences will tleman from South Carolina and the proposition ensue. of the gentleman from Kentucky, go still further-by adopting which, you will put the peace of the nation into peril-and for whom? For a people of whom we know almost as little as we do about the Greeks. Can any man in this House say, what even is the state of society in Buenos Ayres-its moral condition, &c.?

Let us adhere to the policy laid down by the

I shall then, said Mr. R., return to my constit uents without the least alarm in regard to this question. Unless, indeed, I, and those who in this case think with me, have reason to fear that our constituents will award us merited censure for not having better supported the Icause we advocate. Unless on this account,

1, for

one, go back to those that sent me here, I shall be greeted with their honest, open countenances, and gratulating hands. There has not been a question, since I have been a member of this House, on which my opinion has been more clear than on this-no, not even in the case of the sedition law.

[H. OF R.

Let us consider what will be the probable consequences of this acknowledgment. We must look into the history of nations. We are not to conclude, from the forbearance of Spain when we acknowledged the independence of her American provinces, that all other nations would be equally passive on a similar occasion. It is always a question of policy and discretion injured by such an acknowledgment, shall, or shall not, resort to war. The cases from which we derive the most aid, in deciding what is the Law of all Nations in this particular, are the cases of the United Provinces of the Netherlands, when they revolted against Spain, and the case of these United States, during our Revolution. According to these cases, the acknowledgment of a new power, during the civil war which follows the revolt of provinces against the mother country by a third power, is to the mother country cause of war. It will be recollected that, during the war of our Revolution, England made war on France and other European powers, for favoring us.

What, said Mr. R., is our situation? We are absolutely combating shadows. The gentle-whether a Government, which may deem itself man would have us to believe his resolution is all but nothing; yet again it is to prove omnipotent, and fills the globe with its influence. Either it is nothing, or it is something. If it is nothing let us lay it on the table, and have done with it at once; but, if it is that something which it has been on the other hand represented to be, let us beware how we touch it. For my part, I would sooner put the shirt of Nessus on my back, than sanction these doctrines doctrines such as I never heard from my boyhood till now. They go the whole length. If they prevail, there are no longer any Pyrenees every bulwark and barrier of the constitution is broken down; it is become tabula rasa a carte blanche, for every one to scribble on it what he pleases.

MONDAY, January 26.
The Greek Cause.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on Mr. WEBSTER'S and Mr. POINSETT's motions respecting the Greeks; when Mr. A. SMYTH, of Virginia, addressed the Chair.

Mr. Chairman: What are we called on to do? To acknowledge a new power; to introduce a new nation into the great family of nations. It has been said, that this resolution is perfectly harmless; that it leaves the acknowledgment to be made by the President of the United States, to whom it belongs. I cannot agree that the resolution is harmless, or that it leaves the acknowledgment to be made by the President. It declares that provision ought to be made, by law, for defraying the expenses of a mission to Greece. Is not this an acknowledgment of the independence of Greece? Yes, sir; this is an immediate acknowledgment, and one of the most solemn kind. An embassy to Greece, sent by the President, with the consent of the Senate, would be a less solemn recognition of the independence of the Greeks; for, by this resolution, a law is to be passed by Congress, declaring Greece an independent power. It will not only be an acknowledgment of a new power, by Congress, but by the President himself, if he should approve the act, and yet the initiative, in making the acknowledgment, will have been taken from him. Should such a law pass, the acknowledgment of Greece, as an independent nation, is complete. The mischief, if it is mischief, will have been done; and no subsequent prudence, on the part of the President, can avert the consequences, whatever they are to be. The nation must then be responsible.

When a people have declared, and also maintained, their independence, they may be acknowledged as an independent power without giving just cause of war to their former sovereign. Can that be affirmed with regard to the Greeks? By no means. They have not yet achieved, much less maintained, their independence. They possess the Morea, a small part of continental Greece; but the latest accounts inform us that they have been driven from Athens to take refuge in one of the islands. It might have been timely affirmed of some of the Spanish provinces, when their independence was acknowledged by us, that they had maintained it.

It having been shown that the acknowledgment of a revolted province as an independent nation, by a third power, while the mother country still carries on a war for the purpose of asserting a right to such province, would be considered a cause of war by the most civilized nations, can we doubt that it would be deemed cause of war by the Government of Turkey, the most violent and lawless of all Governments? The honorable member from Kentucky (Mr. CLAY) supposes that the resolutions of this body may remain unknown to the Turkish Divan. But it is not at all probable that a measure of this kind would remain long unknown to them. Some power would immediately communicate our proceedings to the Turk, and explain to him, that, by them, we had violated the usages of nations. When we proposed confidentially, to the British Government, to acknowledge the independence of the Spanish American prov inces, that court, then less friendly, perhaps, to us, than at this time, immediately communicated our proposition to the Spanish Government, with a view, no doubt, to embroil us with Spain.

This proceeding would be a violation of our declared principles. The President has declared

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to the Allies, that "We should consider any at- | I need not, said Mr. S., read clauses from the tempt, on their part, to extend their system to constitution, which has been laid on every any portion of this hemisphere, as dangerous to gentleman's table. The President is authorized With the existing colo- to receive embassies; this is one mode of our peace and safety. nies or dependencies (meaning Greece) of any acknowledging a foreign power; he is also European power, (meaning Turkey,) we have authorized to send embassies, by the consent of not interfered, and shall not interfere. But the Senate; this is another mode of recognizing with the Governments who have declared their a foreign power; he also, by the same consent, independence, and maintained it, and whose ratifies treaties. With all this the House of independence we have, on great consideration, Representatives have nothing to do. If you and on just principles, acknowledged, we could have nothing to do with a treaty, why should not view any interposition for the purpose of you prescribe when, or to whom, an embassy oppressing them, or controlling, in any other shall be sent? The powers granted to you are manner, their destiny, by any European power, purely legislative, with the exception of the in any other light than as the manifestation of power to declare war, which is elsewhere inan unfriendly disposition towards the United trusted to the Executive authority. The States. **** Our policy in regard to Europe foreign relations of the nation are confided by and discretion which was adopted at the early stage of the the people to the President and Senate, in wars which have so long agitated that quarter whose superior information of the globe, nevertheless remains the same, reliance is placed. If you interfere with the which is not to interfere in the internal concerns power to send and receive embassies, you may It is impossible come into collision with the President, and of any of its powers. **** that the Allied Powers should extend their you will blend powers which the people inpolitical system to any portion of either conti- tended should be kept distinct. As the aunent, without endangering our peace and hap-thority to send embassies belongs to the Prespiness. **** It is equally impossible, therefore, that we should behold such interposition, in any form, with indifference." Such, sir, are the principles declared by the President in the name of the nation. We say to the Allies, that any attempt on their part to extend their system to any portion of this hemisphere, we shall consider as dangerous to our peace and safety. And is not the extension of our system to their hemisphere equally dangerous to their peace and safety? We say that, with the existing colonies or dependencies of any European power we have not interfered, and shall not interfere. How can we then interfere with the Morea, a province of Turkey, without a violation of our solemn declaration? Sir, by this proceeding, you will make the declaration of the President, as to the future course of policy to be observed by this Government, a falsehood. We acknowledge the Greek republic; and what are the reasons which we assign for doing so? Why, because the allied sovereigns have said that the Greeks have thrown a firebrand into the Ottoman empire, and have declared that they would put down revolution in Europe. Is not this going out of our way to beard the Allies: to seek a quarrel with them respecting the affairs of Europe; and to propagate our system on the other side of the Atlantic?

Another weighty objection to the resolution, Mr. S. said, was, that it was an interference with the Executive power. The people of the United States have separated the powers granted by them between the several branches of the Government. This proposition goes to blend those powers; and every attempt unreasonably to extend the powers of the Government, or to blend the powers of the several departments, tends to the destruction of the constitution. This is an attempt to dictate to the Executive the performance of an act which the constitution has confided to the discretion and information of the President.

You

ident and Senate, we should not invade their
authority or originate a measure which, unless
they will give up a part of their exclusive
authority, they must reject. Your law is not
necessary to enable the President to send an
embassy; he is possessed of the authority
already. If you pass the bill proposed, the
President will not be left at liberty to decide
freely. He must acknowledge the independ-
ence of Greece, or reject your bill.
place him in a painful dilemma, and, perhaps,
compel him to use a prerogative seldom exert-
But suppose that, believing the measure
ed.
to be improper, he puts his veto on the bill;
still, two-thirds of both Houses may pass it
into a law, and thus acknowledge the republic
of Greece, against the opinion of the President,
in whose discretion the people particularly con-
fide, and thus defeat the provisions of the con-
stitution-a popular assembly, carried away by
eloquence and a love of liberty, deciding, instead
of the cool, deliberate caution of the President.
If you can pass a law to send a mission when the
President pleases, you can pass a law to send a
mission next month. In either case, it would be
the law that would make the acknowledgment.
Your act being the supreme law of the land, the
flag of Greece would be respected in our courts
as the flag of an independent power, whether the
embassy was ever sent or not. We acknowledge
the independence of powers with whom we
have no ambassadors.

The gentleman from Kentucky (Mr. CLAY) declares that he is for leaving the whole responsi bility with the President, where the constitution placed it; yet, he advocates a measure which, so far as respects the act of acknowledgment, leaves nothing to the discretion or responsibility of the President, but takes from him the one and relieves him from the other. The act of Congress will be the acknowledgment, and not the embassy.