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had been urged in its favour. We were giving to the legislature the power of controlling the whole appointing power, which was liable to the greatest abuses, and would be used as a political engine to subserve the purposes of ambitious and corrupt individuals.

GEN. TALLMADGE rejoiced that gentlemen were at length able to perceive the force of the remarks he had made on this subject in the debate of yesterday. He had then pointed out the extent and importance of the offices, for the appointment to which no provision had been made. It would be found that after all we had said and done in relation to the appointing power, a very small portion of it had been disposed of. He should vote against the proviso,because he did not think it a sufficient guard against the abuses which had been anticipated.

JUDGE VAN NESS believed that some other plan should be devised for the appointment of the officers left to the legislature by this section. In his opinion the power should either be referred to the governor and senate, or the offices made elective by the people; and with this view he had drawn up a substitute or amendment to this section, which he then read in his place.

MR. N. WILLIAMS said we had manifested a marvellous distrust of the legislature. These officers were a kind of floating capital, that might properly be thrown into the hands of the legislature. If his estimate was correct, the whole number of the corps of officers was only 2,467. Many of them were unimportant, and there would be no risk in leaving the disposal of them to the legislature.

MR. VAN BUREN stated his object to be, to relieve the governor and senate from the duty of making these unimportant appointments. Gentlemen seemed to act upon the supposition that the legislature would in all cases be corrupt, and defeat the wishes of their constituents. It was more natural to suppose, that as the legislature emanated immediately from the people, it would make such a disposal of these minor offices as would give general satisfaction.

MR. DUER again advocated the proviso. It was important to guard against the abuse of this power by the legislature.

Messrs. Briggs, Burroughs, and Root, opposed the proviso, upon the ground that the power would be safely deposited, and no doubt discreetly used.

MR. JAY modified his proviso, by inserting "except such as are at present so appointed."

The question was then taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Baker, Barlow, Beckwith, Birdseye, Breese, Briggs, Brinkerhoff, Brooks, Burroughs, Carver, Case, Child, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Collins, Cramer, Dodge, Dubois, Dyckman, Eastwood, Edwards, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Hogeboom, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Hurd, Knowles, Lefferts, P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Millikin, Moore, Nelson, Park, Pike, Porter, Price, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Reeve, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Rosebrugh, Ross, Russell, Sage, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seaman, Seely, Sharpe, I. Smith, Starkweather, Steele, Swift, Tallmadge, Taylor, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van Horne, Verbryck, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheeler, N. Williams, Woods, Woodward, Young-77.

AYES-Messrs. Bacon, Duer, Fish, Hallock, Hees, Huntington, Jay, Jones, Kent, King, Lansing, Lawrence, Munro, Paulding, Pitcher, Rhinelander, Rogers, Rose, Sanders, R. Smith, Spencer, I. Sutherland, Sylvester, Ten Eyck, Van Fleet, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Ward, Wheaton, E. Williams, Wooster-33.

MR. MUNRO then moved to strike out all that part of the section which follows the word "people," in the sixth line, and insert," or be appointed by the governor, with the consent of the senate."

Some objections were offered to the amendment, and it was withdrawn by the mover. The section, as amended, then passed.

The several sections of that part of the report relating to the tenure of office, passed, with a few unimportant amendments, except the fourth section, which was stricken out.

MR. EDWARDS made an ineffectual effort to render the tenure of the office of first judge for the city and county of New-York during good behaviour, instead of the term of five years.

The report on that part of the subject of the appointing power, which relates to civil officers, was then passed, as follows:

CIVIL OFFICERS.

I. The secretary of state, comptroller, treasurer, attorney general, surveyor general, and commissary general, to be appointed as follows, to wit: The senate and assembly shall each openly nominate one person for the said offices respectively, after which nominations, they shall meet together; and if, on comparing their respective nominations, they shall be found to agree, the person so designated shall be deemed appointed to the office for which he is nominated. If they disagree, the appointment shall be made by the joint ballot of the senators and members of assembly so met together as aforesaid.

II. That the governor shall nominate by message, in writing, and with the consent of the senate, shall appoint all judicial officers, except justices of the peace; who shall be appointed in manner following, that is to say:

The boards of supervisors in every county in this state, shall, at such times as the legislature may direct, meet together, and they or a majoriy of them so assembled, shall nominate a list of persons, equal in number to the justices of the peace to be appointed in the several towns in their respective counties; and the respective courts of common pleas of the said counties shall in like manner meet and nominate a list of the like number. And that it shall be the duty of the said boards of supervisors and courts of common pleas, to compare such lists, at such time and place as the legislature may direct, and if on such comparison the said boards of supervisors and courts of common pleas shall be found to agree, in all or in part, they shall file a certificate of such nominations in which such agreement is found, in the office of the clerk of the county; and the person or persons so found on both lists shall be justices of the peace. And in case of disagreement, in whole or in part, it shall be the further duty of the said boards of supervisors and courts of common pleas respectively, to transmit their said lists, so far as they disagree in the same, to the governor, whose duty it shall be to select from the said lists and appoint as many justices of the peace as shall be required to fill the va cancies. That every person so appointed a justice of the peace, may hold his of fice for four years, unless removed by the county court or court of common pleas, for causes particularly assigned by the judges of the said court. And that no justice of the peace shall be so removed, until notice is given him of the charges made against him, and an opportunity offered him of being heard in his defence.

III. That sheriffs, including the sheriff, register and clerk of the city and coun. ty of New-York, and county clerks, shall be chosen by the electors of the respective counties once in three years, and as often as vacancies shall happen. Sheriffs shall hold no other office, and be ineligible for the next three years after the ter mination of their offices, respectively. They may be required by law to renew their security from time to time, and in default of giving such new security, their offices shall be deemed vacant. But the county shall never be made surety for the sheriff, or responsible for his acts; and the governor may remove any such sheriff, clerk or register, at any time within the said three years, for which the said sheriff, clerk or register shall be elected, given to such sheriff, clerk or tegister a copy of the complaint or charge against him, and an opportunity of being heard in answer thereto, before any decision or removal shall be made.

IV. That the clerks of courts except county clerks, be appointed by the courts of which they respectively are clerks. And district attornies by the courts" of common pleas.

V. That the mayors of all the cities in this state be appointed by the com mon councils of the said respective cities.

VI. at as many coroners as the legislature shall direct, not exceeding four for each county, including the city and county of New-York, shall be elected in the same manner as sheriffs are directed to be elected; and shall hold their offices for the same term, and be removable in like manner.

VII. That the masters and examiners in chancery, shall be appointed by the governor, with the consent of the senate; that the masters and examiners in chan cery shall be removable by the senate, on the recommendation of the governor

and they shall hold their offices for three years, unless sooner removed by the senate, on the recommendation of the governor.

VIII. That the clerk of the court of oyer and terminer, and general sessions of the peace, in and for the city and county of New-York, be appointed by the court of general sessions of the peace in said city, and hold his office during the pleasure of the said court.

IX. That such clerks and other officers of courts, whose appointment is not herein provided for shall be appointed by the several courts; or by the governor, with the consent of the senate, as may be directed by the legislature.

X. That justices of the peace, in and for the city and county of New-York, to wit: The special justices, and the assistant justices, and their clerks respectively, which now exist in said city, shall be appointed by the corporation of said city; and hold their offices for the same term that justices of the peace, in other counties of this state, are entitled to hold the same, and be removable in like man

ner.

XI. That all the officers which are at present elected by the people, continue to be so elected; and all other officers, whose appointment is not provided for by this constitution, and all officers who may be hereafter created by law, may be elected by the people, or appointed as may from time to time, by law, be directed.

TENURE OF OFFICE.

I. The treasurer shall be chosen annually.

II. The secretary of state, comptroller, attorney general, surveyor general, and commissary general, shall hold their offices for three years, unless sooner removed by concurrent resolution of the senate and assembly.

III. Judges of the courts of common pleas, and recorders of cities, to be appointed for five years, removable by the senate on the recommendation of the governor, stating the grounds on which such removal is recommended.

IV. Mayors of cities to be appointed annually.

V. Clerks of courts, and district attornies, shall hold their offices for three years, unless sooner removed by the courts appointing them.

THE JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT.

The report of the committee of the whole on the judicial department was next in order, and was read by the secretary, as follows:

"The legislature shall have power to establish, from time to time, such courts of law subordinate to the supreme court, and such courts of equity subordinate to the court of chancery, as the public good may require."

MR. R. CLARKE moved that the proposition of the honourable gentleman from Tioga (Mr. Carpenter) submitted yesterday, be received therefor as a substitute.

In support of the motion, Mr. Clarke remarked, that a proposition of this sort was loudly called for by the necessities of the people.

It contemplated, in the first place, a reduction of the supreme court. And on this point he would observe, that the object was not merely to remove the present incumbents-but to establish an useful system for the state. We had already removed from them a part of their burthens. We had abolished thre council of revision, which had been an ungracious, but heavy burthen upon them; and it was contemplated to establish them as a court of appellate jurisdiction only. Being thus relieved, he thought there would be no necessity for more than three judges to constitute that court; and it was deserving of much consideration, how far it was expedient from feelings of delicacy, to retain a greater number of officers than the public necessities required, and to tax the community for their support.

In the second place, the substitute proposed to establish district courts. These were imperiously called for by the exigencies of the public. The judges of the supreme court had probably done as much and as well as they could, but it was notorious that the short space allowed for the sittings on the circuits, did not admit of an opportunity for that careful and patient investigation, and deli berate discussion and decision of the causes before them which the fair and com

plete administration of justice demanded. It was true that the number of judges would be increased; but he believed it would be favourable to the solid economy and interest of the state. At present it is often necessary for suitors, and their witnesses, to go home from the court because their causes cannot be tried, owing to the pressure of time upon the judge. This would be remedied by the system proposed. Certain justice, and prompt justice, would then be extended to all the people of the state.

In the third place, the equity powers that are proposed to be given to the district courts, are important. It might, perhaps, be thought presumptuous in him to express an opinion on this subject; but this he did know, that to a large part of the state, the present chancery system was worse than useless. By this remark he intended no disrespect to the honourable gentleman who now fills that station. He believed that the chancellor had performed the duties of his office as well as any man could perform them. But the defect lay in the system; and indeed he almost despaired of another chancellor who would perform his duties as well as the present incumbent, and this very fact convinced him (Mr. C.) of the necessity of an alteration in that court. The fact was, that the chancellor cannot carry equity into the various counties in the state. Those who are remote, especially, cannot maintain their equitable rights, except at an expense that is equivalent to a denial of them. Mr. C. alluded to a case of ejectment, in which a party, to obtain justice, had resort to the court of chancery. In winning his farm by a decree, he lost his farm in the costs. This was but one in the many instances that exist. The people are disheartened and discouraged. If they have no other than an equitable claim, they are induced to succumb, for by pursuing it they are certain to be the losers.

CHIEF JUSTICE SPENCER remarked, that it would perhaps be expected that the judges should express those views in relation to the judicial department which their experience had suggested. With regard to the specific substitute before the Convention, it could affect him personally but little. In less than five years his office would expire by constitutional limitation; and it was known for sometime past to his friends, that he had contemplated resigning it. He had received it under the administration of the venerable first governor of this state, under the present constitution. He had held it eighteen years-and during a very tempestuous period of our public affairs. Although he had perhaps possessed strong party feelings, yet he had always endeavoured to suppress hem as a judge.

In the station in which judges were placed, it was to be expected that they would be best able to discern the defects of the present system, and most competent to devise an adequate remedy. It had occupied their deliberate attention for some years. There were at first but three judges of the supreme court. Another was afterwards added, and the number was ultimately increased to five. When there were four judges the population of the state did not exceed one half of its present number. There were then but twenty counties-there were now fifty-two; and it was not to be disguised, that the judges had not sufficient time for the performance of their duties. They held four terms in a year, and usually for three weeks in each term. They were sometimes obliged to break up before the business could be disposed of, to go on the circuit. He had been six months on the circuits in the course of a year, and had sometimes not returned until within a fortnight before the term-and then all the intervening time was necessarily occupied in examining and preparing for decision the cases that had been argued at the preceding term. This had often occasioned them pecuniary loss, and he could say, that if ever men had been devoted to public business, with a desire to discharge the duties of an office with integrity and despatch, it has been the judges of your supreme court; but the increasing population of the state, together with the addition of new counties, have rendered it almost impossible for them longer to discharge the duties of that office. At the last session of our legislature, there were three or four new counties erected, in which there must hereafter be circuits holden, which will necessarily require so great a share of time in addition to that now required to attend the different circuits of the state, that no time will be left for study or deliberation. There had already been a number of propositions submitted to the consideration of this Convention, one of which was to increase the number of sa

preme judges, and to divide them into two classes; another to reduce their number, and appoint circuit judges. It had been his opinion, and the opinion of his associates, that with the addition of one or two circuit judges, the present court would be able to do all the business that would be required for many years. They never had been desirous of being released from their circuit duties entirely, because they had considered it for the best that they should mingle with the people in the different counties of the state. It is rational to suppose that such a plan is best calculated to give satisfaction among the people; as a judge coming from a remote part of the state must be supposed to be a stranger to the parties who are called before him. They had, therefore, only wished to be released from that part of this duty which it was not convenient for them to perform. The objections raised to this plan have been, that no man well qualified for that station, (and it must be a man well read in the law to discharge the duties of that office) would accept of it, unless he could be placed out of the reach of a removal at every change of party. It would be, indeed, hazarding too much, for a gentleman of the profession to abandon his business for this office, when he has no assurance of holding it any longer than a parti. cular party may predominate, and thus rendering himself liable to fall a sacrifice to their ambition, when perhaps he has not been appointed two years.This evil can be remedied by giving them a tenure of office equal to that of the chancellor and judges of the supreme court, and leaving it to the legislature to provide such salaries as they may think proper.

With these considerations, men of the first legal acquirements, and men of integrity and character, may be obtained. It will afford a sufficient inducement for a man to abandon his business, to accept of an office the tenure of which is for life, or till he arrives at the age of sixty. It has been said that their being considered inferior to the supreme court, would be an objection to that office. The office would certainly be very respectable, and they would be qualifying themselves to fill the place of chancellor, or to take a seat upon the beach of the supreme court; and there could not be a better school.

Mr. S. said he would take the liberty to propose a plan, about which, however, he had no great anxiety, further than the public good was concerned; but as he should probably not have an opportunity after the present day, to present it, he hoped he should receive the indulgence of the committee, as his official duties would compel him to leave town to-morrow.

Mr. S. remarked, that he took a seat upon the bench of the supreme court eighteen years ago, since which his whole time had been devoted to a discharge of the duties incumbent on him in that station. The salary of that office, had barely enabled him to support his family and educate his children, without laying up a dollar from that source, more than he had when he accepted the of fice. He had abandoned his profession, which was far more lucrative than the office which he accepted, and he had received that appointment under the sanction of the constitution, with a pledge, that he should hold it till he arrived at the age of sixty, unless removed for mal-conduct. His term of service by that limitation, would expire in about four years; but if the public good requir ed his removal, amen, to it. The Convention had an undoubted right to do it if they thought proper, notwithstanding it would appear rational, that those who had received that office under the old constitution should continue till their term expired by law. He did not ask this, but merely suggested it for the consideration of the Convention; and as he had heretofore endeavoured not to trespass upon the patience of that body, he would trouble them with no further remarks, than to introduce his proposition; which was as follows:

"That there shall be appointed as many judges as the legislature may from time to time direct and prescribe, of the degree of counsellors of law, in the su preme court, to be called circuit judges; whose duty it shall be to hold in such counties as the legislature shall designate, courts of oyer and terminer and goal delivery, circuit courts and sittings; and to perform such other judicial duties as shall be required of them by law. And the judges, thus to be appointed shall hold their offices by the same tenure as the judges of the supreme court; and shall, ex officio, be members of the court for the trial of impeachments and the

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