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third district will lie on the west side of the river, except Rensselaer, which can be approached at all seasons. It would also be more contiguous in regard to communication than the district proposed by the committee. The facilities afforded by the river for commercial and political intercourse, were such, that the extremes proposed by this arrangement would be nearer for all practical purposes, than to retain the form which the committee have proposed-for what earthly connexion, he would ask, was there between the counties of Sullivan and Westchester?

The conveniences of communication, therefore, were altogether in favour of the amendment he had proposed. But were they balanced, there was another consideration that must turn the scale in its favour. He alluded to the popu lation, which, by reference to the tables, as exhibited in the report of the committee, it would be seen, would be essentially equalized by the arrangement he had proposed. It was a matter of general wish and of common right, that the same degree of efficiency should be given to the votes of electors of one district, as in another, and this could only be attained by securing the greatest practicable equality in the respective districts.

MR. E. WILLIAMS remarked, that he rose for the purpose of stating his objections to the plan proposed by the gentleman from Otsego, (Mr. V. B.) and to say a few words in behalf of the county of Columbia. She will do her duty, (said Mr. W.) wherever she is placed. Unless you annex her to Massachusetts she will be an aid to her friends, and an annoyance to her enemies. When gentlemen introduced their proposition for a division into eight districts, and display their map in the lobby, they gave a virtual pledge, that it should not be afterwards politically modified; and he would add that the principal cause of the abandonment of the favourite project for thirty-two districts, was the map. But it was to be feared that gentlemen were now about to be out-mapped.

The question is not so much of population as of territory. What is the fact? In the second district we shall have a narrow territory, extending from within six miles of the City-Hall in New-York, to within twelve miles of the Capitol in Albany--and in the third district you have a Gerrymander. The monster will curl its tail on the mountains of Jersey-coil along the borders of Pennsylvania; wind its scaly and hideous carcass between the crooked lines of counties, and finally thrust its head into Bennington. Disguise it as you will, the object will be visible and the people of this state will understand that it is to exclude federalism from every senatorial district. This may be just. It may be magnanimous. And gentlemen must do as they please as they hold the power.

The motion was further supported by Messrs. Duer, Buel, and I. Sutherland, and opposed by Messrs. Hunter, D. Clark, Sharpe, and Van Vechten, when the question was taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES.-Messrs. Baker, Barlow, Beckwith, Birdseye, Brooks, Burroughs, Child, D. Clark, Collins, Day, Dodge, Dubois, Edwards, Ferris, Fish, Frost, Hallock, Hees, Hogeboom, Howe, Hunter, Huntington, Jones, Kent, King, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Millikin, Moore, Porter, Price, Radcliff, Rhinelander, Rockwell, Rogers, Rose, Ross, Sage, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Seaman, Seely, Sharpe, I. Smith, R. Smith, Spencer, Stagg, Steele, Swift, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Ten Eyck, Townley, Townsend, Van Fleet, Van Horne, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Verbryck, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, E. Williams, Woodward, Wooster, Young.-69.

AYES.-Messrs. Briggs, Buel, Carver, Case, R. Clarke, Cramer, Duer, Eastwood, Fenton, Humphrey, Hunt, Knowles, Lansing, Lawrence, Lefferts, Nelson, Park, Pike, Pitcher, Pumpellv, Reeve, Richards, Russell, Schenck, Starkweather, I. Sutherland, Taylor, Tuttle, Van Buren, Ward, N. Williams, Woods, Yates.-36.

JUDGE VAN NESS moved to strike out the first section of the report, and to insert the following substitute:

"The state shall be divided by the legislature into districts, to be called senate districts, to be composed of contiguous territory, and that one senator strall be elec

ted in each district which division shall be made as soon as may be after the ratifi.
Gation of this amendment by the people, provided that it shall be competent for
the legislature, in case it shall be deemed expedient to form the city and county of
New-York and such contiguous county or counties as they may deem fit and prop-
er into one district, for the purpose of electing senators, to reduce the number of
senators in the said
and to authorize the election of
said districts to
disrtict, o be composed of the city and county of New-York and such contiguous
County or counties as aforesaid; and provided further, that until such division shall
be made by the legislature, senators shall be elected by the same number of dis-
tricts as they are at present elected."

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MR. I. SUTHERLAND proposed to the mover to vary the substitute, so as to read "not less than eight nor more than sixteen."

JUDGE VAN NESS did not assent to the suggestion, and after a few remarks from the mover, and Messrs, Birdseye and King, the question on the substitute was taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Barlow, Beckwith, Birdseye, Briggs, Brooks, Burroughs, Carver, Case, Child, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Clyde, Collins, Cramer, Day, Dodge, Duer, Eastwood, Edwards, Fairlie, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Hallock, Hogeboom, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunting, King, Knowles, Lansing, Lawrence, Lefferts, P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Moore, Nelson, Park, Paulding, Pike, Pitcher, Porter, Price, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Richards, Rockwell, Rogers, Ross, Russell, Sage, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seaman, Sharpe, Sheldon, Stagg Starkweather, Steele, I. Sutherland, Swift Tallmadge, Taylor, Ten Eyck, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van Fleet, Van Horne, S. Van Rensselaer, Verbryck, Ward, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, N. Williams, Woodward, Wooster, Yates, Young.-83.

AYES-Messrs. Buel, Fish, Hees, Hunter, Huntington, Hurd, Jones, Kent, Millikin, Rhinelander, Rose, Seely, I. Sinith, R. Smith, Spencer, Sylves ter, Townley, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, E. Williams, Woods-21.

MR. YATES then renewed the motion of the gentleman from Schoharie, (Mr, Sutherland) to amend the substitute so as to read, not less than eight nor more than sixteen, leaving the state to be divided into districts by the legislature, after the next census shall be taken.

The motion was supported by Messrs. Yates and E. Williams, and opposed by Messrs. King, Tallmadge, Fairlie, Briggs, and Burroughs, when the question was taken and lost.

On motion of Mr. KING, the question on the first section as far as to the word
Chautauque," embracing the eight district, was taken and carried.
MR. N. WILLIAMS moved to add the following clause to the end of the first

section:

"Provided, that no person shall be eligible to the office of senator, who shall not have attained the age of thirty years, and been five years a resident of this state, and who shall not, at the time of his election, be seized of a freehold estate in his qwn right within this state, of the value of one thousand dollars, over and above. all debis and incumbrances charged thereon."

Mr. W. called for the ayes and noes, and the question was decided in the affirmative, as follows:

AYES Messrs. Baker, Beckwith, Birdseye, Breese, Brooks, Buel, Burroughs, Child, D. Clark, Clyde, Day, Dodge, Dubois, Fairlie, Ferris, Hees, Hunter, Hunting, Hurd, Kent, Knowles, Lansing, P. R. Livingston, Nelson, Pitcher, Porter, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Rhinelander, Richards, Rogers, Rose, Sage, Seaman, Seely, Sharpe, Sheldon, I. Smith, R. Smith, Spencer, Sylvester, Townsend, Tripp, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Verbryck, Ward, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, E. Williams, N. Williams, Woods, Woodward-56.

NOES-Messrs. Barlow, Briggs, Carpenter, Carver, Collins, Cramer, Eastwood, Edwards, Fenton, Fish, Frost, Hallock, Hogeboom, Howe, Hum

71

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phrey, Hunt, Huntington, King, Lawrence, Lefferts, A. Livingston, M'Call, Millikin, Moore, Park, Paulding, Pike, Price, Rockwell, Ross, Russell, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Stagg, Starkweather, I. Sutherland, Swift, Tallmadge, Ten Eyck, Van Buren, Van Fleet, Van Horne, Wooster, Yates, Young-46.

The residue of the second section, and the whole section as amended, then passed.

The second section was then read as follows :

"II. That a census of the inhabitants of the state, excluding aliens, paupers, Convicts and persons of colour not taxed, be taken under the direction of the legis. lature, in the year 1825, and at the end of every ten years thereafter; and that the said districts shall be so altered by the legislature at the first session after the return of every census, that each senate district shall contain, as nearly as may be, an equal number of such inhabitants; which districts shall remain unaltered until the return of another census. Provided, that every district shall at all times consist of contiguous territory, and that no county shall be divided in the forma tion of a senate district."

CHIEF JUSTICE SPENCER was opposed to the vagueness of the word "convicts" and on motion of Mr. E. WILLIAMS, the word was stricken out.

On motion of Mr. WENDOVER, the words "excluding aliens, paupers, and persons of colour not taxed," were transferred so as to follow the word "inhabitants" in the 10th line.

CHIEF JUSTICE SPENCER moved the following amendment :

"After districts,' in 10th line, 2d section, strike out shall remain unaltered until the return of another census,' and insert but the legislature, on the return of every census, may alter the said districts, and they shall never be diminished, but may be increased."

The amendment was supported by the mover and Mr. E. Williams, and opposed by Messrs. Van Buren, Briggs, and Young, when the question was taken and lost, and the second section passed as amended.

The third section was read as follows:

HE That on the taking the census in 1825, the number of the members of assembly shall be fixed at one hundred and twenty-eight, and shall never exceed that number."

MR. WHEATON offered the following amendment:

"And that the same shall be apportioned among the several counties of the state, as nearly as may be, according to the number of inhabitants in each county, excluding aliens, paupers, and persons of colour not taxed, which apportionment shall remain unaltered until the return of another census; provided, that every county heretofore established and separately organized, shall be entitled to one member."

MR. RUSSELL offered the following addition to Mr. Wheaton's proviso:

"IV. And that in future no new county shall be erected, unless its population shall entitle it to a member."

After some discussion, both the amendment and the proviso were adopted. MR. KING moved to strike out the words "on the taking the census in 1825."

Carried.

The section was then passed as amended.

The fourth section was read and passed without amendment, as follows:

"Any bill may originate in either house of the legislature; and bills passed by ane house may be amended by the other."

The fifth section was then read as follows:

V. The members of the legislature shall receive a compensation for their services, to be ascertained by law, and paid out of the public treasury; but no increase of the compensation shall take effect during the year in which it shall have been made. And no law shall be passed increasing the wages of the legislature beyond the sum of three dollars per day, unless by a majority of all the members elected to both branches of the legislature; and unless it shall be limited as to its continuance, to two years after the passage thereof, and the yeas and noes shall be taken thereon, and entered on the journals."

MR. FAIRLIE moved to strike out all that part of the section which relates to the limitation of the pay of the members of the legislature.

The question was taken on the said motion of Mr. Fairlie, by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Baker, Barlow, Beckwith, Buel, Burroughs, Case, Child, D. Clark, Clyde, Cramer, Day, Dodge, Dubois, Duer, Eastwood, Edwards, Fish, Hallock, Hees, Hogeboom, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Hurd, Jones, Knowles, Lansing, Lawrence, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, Millikin, Moore, Munro, Pike, Pitcher, Richards, Rockwell, Rogers, Rose, N. Sanford, Seaman, Sheldon, R. Smith, Spencer, Starkweather, Steele, I. Sutherland, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Taylor, Townley, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Horne, Van Ness, J, R. Van Rensselaer, Verbryck, E. Williams, Woods, Woodward, Wooster, Yates, Young-66.

AYES Messrs. Birdseye, Breese, Briggs, Brooks, Carpenter, Carver, R' Clarke, Collins, Fairlie, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Huntington, Kent, King, Lefferts, M'Call, Nelson, Park, Paulding, Porter, Price, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Rhinelander, Rosebrugh, Ross, Russell, Sage, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seely, Sharpe, I. Smith, Stagg, Swift, Ten Eyck, Van Fleet, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Ward, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, N. Williams--46.

The section was then adopted.

The sixth section was read, as follows:

"VI. No member of the legislature shall receive any civil appointment from the governor and senate, or from the legislature, during the term for which he shall have been elected."

MR. BIRDSEYE moved to amend the section, so as to read "no member of the legislature shall receive or hold any civil appointment, &c. Lost, and the section passed without amendment.

The 7th and 8th sections (prohibiting U. S. officers from holding seats in the legislature, and relative to the power of impeachment) also passed without amendment.

The 9th section (relative to appropriations of money for private or local purposes, and incorporations) was read.

COL. YOUNG moved to insert the word "property" after "monies." Car

ried.

MR. WHEATON moved to amend by inserting "or renewing charters of" after the word "creating," (so that no charter or incorporation shall hereafter be granted or renewed, without the consent of two-thirds of the members of both houses.) Carried, and the section passed.

The 10th section was read, and one or two amendments were offered; but before they were acted on, the convention adjourned.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1821.

The Convention met as usual. Prayer by the Rev. Mr. DE WITT. Min

ates of yesterday read and approved.

THE LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT.

The tenth section of the report of the committee of the whole on the legislá tive department, in relation to the appropriation and confirmation of certain property of the state, pledged to the common school and canal funds, was read, and the consideration of the motion made yesterday by Mr. N. Williams, to strike out the words "of all lands that may hereafter be acquired by the state," was resumed, and lost.

MR. WHEATON offered the following resolution:

"Resolved, That a committee of members be appointed, to apportion the whole number of members of the assembly among the several counties of the state, as nearly as may be, according to the number of inhabitants in each county, excluding aliens, paupers, and persons of colour not taxed.”

Mr. W. stated the object of his motion to be, to make an apportionment of the 128 members of the assembly according to the new rule for the apportionment of the representation which had been adopted by the house. The legislature might not be in session at the time when the amendments to the constitution would be adopted by the people. There was the same necessity for now making the apportionment under which the first house of assembly should be chosen, as there was to make that regulation as to the senate. The amendment could not be carried into effect without it.

On motion of Judge VAN NESS, the resolution was laid on the table.

MR. RICHARDS moved to strike out all that part of the section which relates to the pledge of the public lands for the support of common schools. Lost. MR. STARKWEATHER proposed to strike out the words "be acquired," in the third line, and to insert in lieu thereof the word "revert." Lost.

COL. YOUNG moved to strike out the words "in an average," after the word “less," with a view to leave to the legislature the regulation of the rates of toll on different commodities, which may hereafter pass through the canals.

The amendment was supported by the mover and Messrs. N. Williams and Ross, and opposed by Messrs. Briggs, King, and Birdseye, when Mr. Young varied the phraseology by substituting the words "in the whole." The motion was put and lost.

MR. WARD moved to insert after the words "twenty-one," in the fifteenth line, the words "except gypsum and fuel."

MR. KING observed, that if the pledge was to be violated in one part, it might be in another; and if any part was left to the discretion of the legislature, the whole ought to be. If we mean to adhere to the engagement, it is proper that we should not break in upon it in any particular.

MR. SHARPE also opposed the motion. Withdrawn.

GEN. J. R. VAN RENSSELAER moved to insert after the words "twentyone," in the fifteenth line, the words,

"Except on fire wood, fencing stuff, on which the present rate of tolls may be diminished or removed entirely; but the amount which would have been produc. ed by the said tolls shall be collected from tolls to be imposed on other articles.”

The motion was supported by the mover and Messrs. Birdseye and Russell, and opposed by Mr. Briggs, and lost.

MR. NELSON moved to strike out all that part of the section, from the word "state," in the eleventh line, to the word "aforesaid," in the forty-seventh line, including the tolls on the canal, the salt duties, the tax on steam-boat passengers, and the auction duties. He was opposed to interfering with the legis lative pledge. It was a proper subject for them on which to excrcise their discretion.

MR. BIRDSEYE Supported the motion, which was opposed by Messrs. Fairlie, Briggs, and Van Vechten, when, on the suggestion of Mr. Young, the mover consented to postpone his amendment, to give place to a proposition of

COL. YOUNG, who thereupon moved to strike out the same parts of the report as Mr. Nelson's motion contemplated, and to insert in lieu thereof the fol

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