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of the profession carry their husiness almost exclusively mlo the supreme coBrf and for the ohvious reason that they get more fees.
The question was then taken on Mr. M'Call's motion, and lost.
Mr. E. Williams inquired whether there was any thing hefore the committee that had not heen rejected?
Col. Young offered the following, as a suhstitute for the report of the committee:
"The legislature shall havi power to estahlish from time to time, such courts of law suhordinate to the supreme court, and such courts of equity, suhordinate to tlie court of chancery, as the puhlic good may require."
Some remarks were made in explanation, hy Ms. Young.
Mr. Van Buhen ohjected to the proposition of the gentleman from Saratoga, as heing perfectly nugatory.
Mr. E. Willtams contended that the proposition of the gentleman from Saratoga was wholly unnecessary, as the legislature possesses all the power which it proposed to give. Unfortunately every proposition which comes from gentlemen of the har is rejected. If any thing is to he done upon this suhject, the lawyers must have no hand in it. It has heen stated hy some of the lay memhers, that they will oppose every thing that comes from such a souree. Yesterday a committee was appointed, consisting of seven, six of whom were lawyers, and their report was this morning annihilated. Every project offered since had heen successively strangled. Mr. W. could not. therefore, support it, hecanse if he did, it would he lost; and he helieved the gentleman from Saratoga was loo respectahle a lawyer to have his project carry.
Mr. Wheeler replied, when the question was taken on the proposition offered hy Mr. Young, aad carried.
Mr. Van Burkn said they had not everr then advanced a single stop, as the same provision exactly was contamed in the constitution.
Mr. Dodge said he helieved it to he the wish of nine-tenths of the memhers to do nothing more than to leave the judiciary as they found it.
MR. Van Buhe.n. Then why not come out openly and manfully, and say so, and not degrade ourselves hy adopting insignificant amendments?
Mr. Dodge. If gentlemen suhmit propositions to the house, we are ohliged to vote on them, whether insignificant or not.
Mr. I. Sutherland then offered the following as an addition, which he thought would ohviate the difficnlties. It certainly is the sense of this Convention, that the chancellor and judges of the highest trihunal shouht he rendered independent.
'* And the judges of such court, to whom the power of trying issues joined in the supreme court shall he given, shall hold their offices during good hehaviour, until the age of sixty years.1'
Mr. Hogehoom was of opinion that we had courts enough already, and he should vote against every proposition for increasing the numher.
The question on Mr. Sutherland's amendment was then taken hy ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:
NOES—Messrs. Bacon, Baker, Barlow, Beckwith, Briggs, Brooks, Burroughs, Carpenter, Carver, Case, R. Clarke, Clyde, Collins, Day, Dodge, Duhois, Dyckman, Eastwood, Fenton, Ferris, Fish, Frost, Hallock, Hees, IJogehoom, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting. Huntington, Hurd, Knowles, Lansing, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Millikin, Moore, Munro. Park, Pike, Porter. Price, Radeliff, Reeve, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Ross. Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seely, Sharpe, I. Smith, Starkweather, Steele, Swift, Tayter, Townluy, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Fleet, Van Home, Verhryck, E. Wehster, Woods, Woodward, Wooster, Young—74.
AYES—Messrs. Birdseye, Breese, Buel, Child, Cramer, Duer, Edwards. Jay, Jones. Kent. Uing, Lawrence. LeffcrU, Nelson. Paulding, Piteher, Pumpelly, Rhinclander, Roger?, Russell, Sheldon, I. Sutherland, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Ten Eyck, Van Buren, J. R. Van Rensselaer, £. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Wendover, Wheaton, Wheeler, E. Williams, N. Williams, Yates—35.
The committee then rose and reported progress, without asking leave to sit again. Adjourned.
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 26, 1821. Prayer hy the Rev. Dr. Cbestca. Minutes of yesterday read and approved.
THE APPOINTING POWER.
The Convention then resolved itself tnto a committee of the whole on the appointing power—Mr. Lawrence in the chair.
The report of the select committee, of wlitch Mr. RadelirT was chairman, that was presented yesterday on that part of the appointing power which had not heen acted upon in committee of the whole, was again read, as follows:
I. That as many coroners as tlie legislature shall direct for each county, including the city and county of New-York, shall he elected, in the same manner as sheriffs are directed to he elected; and shall hold their offices for the same term and he removahle in like manner.
II. That masters in chancery-, and the register and assistant registers of the said court, shall he appointed hy the governor, with the consent of the senate; that the masters in chancery shall he removahle hy the senate, on the recommendation of the governor; and that the register and assistant registers, hold their offices for three years, unless sooner removed hy the sena:e, on the like recommendation of the governor.
IH. That examiners in chancery he appointed hy the court of chancery, and hold their offices during the pleasure of the said court.
IV. That tlie clerk of the court of oyer and terminer, and general sessions of the peace, in and for the city and county of New-York, he appointed hy the court of general sessions of the peace in said city, and hold his office during the pleasure of the said court.
V. That the third section of the report of the committee of the whole, on the suhject of the power of appointment to office, he so amended, as to insert, after the word " York,'' in the third line, the words, 11 and the clerk of the sittings or cireuits, in the city of New-York."
[The effect of this amendment will he to make theoffice of clerk of the sittings in New.York elective, in the same manner, and to hold his office for the same term, as hy that section ia provided in regard to county clerks.}
VI. That justices of the peace, in and for the city and county of New-York, to wit: The special justices, the justices of the marine court, and the assistant justices, and their cterks respectivelv, which now exist iu said city, or such other justices in their stead; or such justices of courts, infevior to the courts of common pleas and general sessions of the peace in said city, as may from time to time he crea'ed orcsiahlished hy the legislature, shall he appointed hy the corporation of said city; and hold their offices tor the same term that justices of the peace, in the other counties of this state, are entitled to hold the same, and he removahle in like manner.
VII. That the officers of the health department for the city and port of NewYork, shall he appointed hy the corporation of ssid city, except the officer now called the health commissioner, or any officer or officers who may he hereafter created in his stead, or assigned to perform the dut'es now helonging to the said health commissioner; which health commissioner, or other officer or officers, shall he appointed hy the governor, with the consent of the senate, and he removahle hy the senate, on the recommendation of the governor i utid 'hat the legislature may provide, in sny manner they shall see fit fur thr rece.pt, dishursement, and appropviation of all the moneys and property, whether real or personal, received hy, or helonging to, or which may he received hy, or helong to, the Mid health department.
VIH. That tlie harhour masters of said city, and the commissioner ol excise therein, or such other excise officer or officers, as may he created in said city, shall he appointed hy the corporation thereol, and hold their offices during their pleasure.
IX. That the wardens rnd pilots of the port of New-York, and clerks of the said wardens, shall he appointed within the said city, in such manner as the legis. lature may from time to time direct.
Mr. Wheaton said, that having had the honour to he a memher of the select committee, to whom this suhject was referred, he would state, for the information of the house, that it was the intention of the committee to place the office of coroner on the same footing with that of sheriff. It was an office of a similar character; and heing known to the common law, and recognized in the constitution of this state, it hecame necessary to provide for the appointment. The Convention had determined, contrary to his opinion, that the sheriffs should he elected hy the people. This might, or might not, he reversed, when the report of the committee of the whole was acted on in the house. Bui in the mean time it was thought expedient to put the coroner's office on the same ground with that of sheriff: since hoth were originally chosen hy popular election, and the coroner was to this day chosen in England hy the freeholders of the county.
Gen. Tallmadge offered the following proposition:
"That justices of the peace shall he (except in the city and county of NewYork,) ex officio coroners, and perfoim the duties of that office."
The proposition was discussed hy the mover and Mr. Young, when the question on the amendment was taken and lost. After a few remarks from Mr. Fairlic on the clanse as reported, Judge Van Ness offered the following proposition:
"That coroners shall he elected in the same manner as justices of the penoe\" Lost.
Mr. Nelson offered a proposition, making the supervisors coroners ex officio, which, after some discussion, was withdrawn.
Mr. I. Sutnerlami then offered the following 'tihstitule:
"That one coroner may he clecte.l in each town, at the annual town election, to hold his office for the term of one year."
Mr. Yates moved to amend the proposition hy inserting the words '' or ward" after the word " /own." Carried.
Mr. Mi'.nno made a few remarks in favour of the amendment.
Gen. Root could pereeive no necessity of having a coroner in every town. Too many of these officers had heretofore heen appointed. They were so numerous, and so greedy of a fee, that a person could not die in peace in the city of New-York, without heing disturhed hy coroners, especially until the feci had heen reduced. There had heen too many of them, and the office had heen made use of as a sort of small change, to pay up petty political dehts. In Delaware they were as thick as locusts; and the office had heen treated with contempt from heing made too common. He hoped that hereafter there would inot he more than two or three to a county, to he appointed on the same ticket with the sheriff.
Mr Ross was in favour of uniting the offices of coroner and commissioner, and with that view, offered the following proposition:
"Who shall he ex officio a commissioner to take acknowledgments, and who, hefore he enters upon the duties ot his office, shall he required to take and suhrcrihe the oath of office hefore the clerk of the county.
Cor. You.ng remarked that in large cities a greater numher of coroners was necessary than in the country. In the city of New-York the office might heeonte as lucrative as that of clerk of the county. He moved the following amendment to Mr. Sutherland's proposition—" except in the city and county of New-York."
Mr. Dodge thought the office of coroner was more important than had heen considered; and if the numher, should he diminished from fifteen or twenty, to four or five in each county, it would then he elevated from its degraded situation. The rage had heen so great for office, that any thing hy that name was eagerly grasped ; and many men had heen appointed to that office totally unfit for it, not heing ahle to read or write. But when we consider these officers as conservators of the peace, and as acting at many times as the sheriffs of the county, having executions in their hands for collection to a very large amount, and even against the sheriff himself; we cannot consider the office altogether unimportant, Let there he hut four or five in each county, (except the large cities.) and you will then induce men of respectahility to accept the office.
The gentleman from Genesee (Mr. Ross) had proposed giving to the coroner the office of commissioner, which was, in itself, a very important office, as on a faithful discharge of the duties of that office, depended the title of vast quantities of real estate. Mr. D. was totally opposed to this proposition, and cons sidered the original report as far superior to it: if the numher should he reduced, the office would hecome respectahle.
A few remarks were made hy Mr. I. Sutherland, when the question on Mr. Young's amendment was taken and lost.
The question was then taken on the proposition of Mr. Sutherland, which was rejected.
Col. You Ng moved to strike out the word, " elected," and insert " appointed." Carried.
Mr. E. Williams remarked, that the effect of this motion would he to make sheriffs appointahle instead of elective.
Mr. Sharte wished to meet this question at once. He was prepared to rote. We had determined to make the office of sheriff elective: the intelljr gcoce had gone forth through the state, without giving dissatisfaction, and he regretted to see an attempt made to reverse our proceedings.
Mr. Ward moved to insert after the word, "direct," the words, "not ex* ceeding four." Carried.
Mr. Tompkms moved to amend the clanse, so as to read, "elected or appointed," which was carried, apd the clanse passed without further amends ment.
The second section was read.
Mr. Wheaton moved the following amendment:
"To strike out in the first and second lines the words, "register and assistant register of the court," so as to leave the appointment of these officers to the charts ecltor, where it was now vested hy the present constitution."
Chtef Justice Spencer was opposed to the amendment. He thought any provision on this suhject wholly unnecessary.
Mr. Radcliff, from the committee, explained the reasons upon which this clanse of the report was grounded.
Mr. Van Jluhen thought we were on this suhject altering the constitution for the worse. He was in favour of striking out " register," in the second clanse, and of omitting the third section altogether.
Mr. Buel made some remarks on the appointment of examiners in chancery; and
Mr. N. Williams explained his reasons for dissenting from the clanse under discussion.
Chancellor Kent felt an anxiety, that the examiners in chancery should not he appointed hy the chancellor. They were intimately connected with the office of chancellor, and acted as deputies to him, and their appointment was an undesirahle hurthen to he placed upon the chancellor. With respect to the offices of register and assistant register, they were of less importance, heing picrely clerks of that court.
Mr. Cramer moved to strike out "register," and insert "exammers isi chancery," in the second section.
Mr. Munro moved to insert hefore the word, " that," in the first line, the Hollowing words:
"That the legislature may direct the appointment of an accomptant to the court of chancery in the city of New-York, and another in the city of Alhany, who shall have the charge of all monies deposited in the court of chancery, and shall he appointed hy the governor with the consent of the senate, and shall he required to give competent security for the faithful execution of his office."
Mr. Briqgs was willing the court should have the appointment of these officers, if it would assume the responsihility.
Mr. Radcliff expatiated upon the importance of these offices, when the question on Mr. Cramer's amendment was taken, and carried in the affirmative.
At the suggestion of Mr. Sutherland, Mr. Munro withdrew his amendment. Mr. E. Williams moved sundry amendments, so as to make the remainder of the section conform to the first clause, which were adopted.
Mr. Wheaton moved to add the following words at the end of the clanse:
"The numher of masters in chancery shall not exceed four for the city and county of New-York, two tor the city and county of Alhany, and one for each of the other cities and counties in this state; hut whenever the chancellor shall certify to the legislature that the husiness of the court requires an increase of their numher specifying particularly where required, the legislature may anthorise hy law an additional numher."
This amendment, after some conversation hetween the mover and Messrs. Tallmadge and Van Buren, was negatived.
The third section of the report was stricken out, and the fourth passed without amendment.
The fifth section was read.
Some remarks were made hy Messrs. Radeliff, Munro, Sharpe, Duel, and others, when the question on the fifth section was taken and lost. Mr. Mu.nro offered the following proposition:
"That the office of clerk of the sittings and cireuit courts in the city of NewYork, he executed hy the clerk of the supreme court in that city." Lost.
Mr. Jay offered the following suhstitute for the fifth section:
"That such clerks and other officersof courts, whose appointment is not herein provided fi r, shall he appointed hy the several courts, or hy the governor, with the consent of the senate, as may he directed hy the legislature.'' Adopted.
Sixth section read.
Mr. WSeller moved to amend hy striking out the word "corporation," and inserting "senate, on the recommendation of the governor." He spoke for sometime in favour of the amendment, and against swelling the already enormous power of the corporation, hy giving to it the appointment of these
Mr. Radcliff contended that the patronage of the corporation was hy no means so groat as had heen represented. All he required was equality of rights hetwoLMi the city and country.
Col. Young thought there should he a distinction hetween officers, whose jurisdiction was extensive, such as health officers, &c. and those of a local character. He would confine the power of the corporation to the appointment of those of the hitter description.
Mr. H\dclikf forllior explained, when
Mr. \V Hci Lkr withdrew his amendment.
Col. You.ng moved to strike out the words, "justices of the marine court."