NOES-Messrs. Baker, Barlow, Buel, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Hunter, Jay, Jones, Kent, King, Lansing, Lawrence, Munro, Nelson, Paulding, President, Rhinelander, Rose, Sage, Sharpe, I. Smith, I. Sutherland, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Ten Eyck, Van Buren, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Ward, Wheaton, E. Williams, Yates-33.

MR. VAN BUREN remarked, that the whole report appeared now to be disposed of.

MR. N. WILLIAMS called for his amendment.

MR. DUER said, that if the question just taken had the effect to reject the whole report, there appeared to be nothing before the committee. He therefore moved to rise and report.

MR. DODGE Seconded the motion. The report was gone, and there was nothing before the committee as a substratum.

MR. E. WILLIAMS believed that the question on the first section of the report did not affect the remaining sections. In legislative bills, a rejection of the first section destroyed the bill; but it was different here. All the sections were distinct propositions.

MR. DUER dissented from the opinion, and considered the whole report rejected.

After some desultory discussion, the chair decided that Mr. N. Williams's amendment was in order, which was read.

MR. DUER renewed his motion to rise and report, which after a few remarks from Mr. Young, was put and carried.

In Convention, Mr. DODGE offered the following proposition :

"The judicial power of this state shall be vested in the court for the trial of impeachments and the correction of errors; the court of chancery; the supreme court of judicature; in courts of nisi prius and oyer and terminer and general gaol delivery; in county courts of common pleas and general sessions of the peace; and in such other tribunals of inferior and limited jurisdiction, both as to law and equity, as the legislature may establish: Provided that any chancellor, vice-chancellor, judge of the supreme court, or judge of nisi prius and oyer and terminer, appointed under this constitution, shall hold his office during good behaviour, and until he arrives at the age of sixty years, and shall hold no other office whatever."

MR. VAN BUREN offered the following resolution :

"Resolved, That the legislature shall have power to divide the state into as many circuit districts as they may think proper; to give to them the power of holding circuit courts, and courts of oyer and terminer, and of nisi prius, concur. rent with or exclusive of the justices of the supreme court, that the circuit judges shall also be judges of the court of errors; that the legislature shall have like power to authorize the appointment of one or more vice chancellors, or to establish in. ferior courts of equity, to have jurisdiction to the amount of , and that said circuit judges and vice chancellors shall hold their offices by the same tenure as the judges of the supreme court, and shall receive such salaries and fees as the legislature may allow them."

COL. YOUNG moved that these propositions be referred to a select committee. Carried.

It was moved that the committee consist of seven members.-Carried.

SENATORIAL DISTRICTS.

On motion of Mr. KING, the Convention then resolved itself into a committee of the whole on the subject of senatorial districts-Mr. Van Buren in the chair.

The report of the select committee to whom Mr. Tallmadge's proposition was referred, was read.

MR. BUEL moved to amend the first section so as to read not less" than eight nor more than sixteen." His reasons for the motion were that we should make the senatorial districts as numerous as it might be practicable. He preferred that the subject should be left to the legislature, rather than to fix the number of districts absolutely at eight

Some objections to the amendment were made by Messrs. Fairlie, King, and E. Williams, when the question on the amendment was taken and lost. The question then recurred on the first section of the report.

MR. RADCLIFF was opposed to dividing the state into eight districts, and renewed the proposition offered some time since by Mr. Root, which was as follows:

"The senate shall consist of thirty-six members to be elected for three years. On the return of every census, the state shall be divided into twelve districts, as nearly as may be equal in the number of electors, and each be entitled to three senators, one of whom to be elected annually. The districts shall be composed of contiguous territory, and not altered till the return of another census."

Mr. R. remarked, that he had voted against that proposition, with the hope that something better would be offered. But he preferred that proposition to the one now before the committee; and for the purpose of trying the sense of the house, he moved to insert twelve instead of eight.

MR. SHARPE Opposed the motion, as being out of order; and the Chairman decided that it was not in order, the report having been made pursuant to specific instructions from the committee.

The question was then taken on the first part of the first section, and carried.

The several districts were then read in detail, and adopted without amendment, together with the last part of the first section.

Second section read.

MR. RUSSELL Moved to amend by inserting after the word "legislature," a clause providing that the number of districts should not be less than eight, nor more than sixteen.

The amendment was discussed by the mover, and Messrs. King, E. Williams, Burroughs, and Sharpe, when it was withdrawn, and the second section was passed as reported.

COL. YOUNG offered the following proposition, as an additional section:

"That on the taking of the census in 1825, the number of the members of assembly shall be fixed at 128, and shall never exceed that number." Carried.

The committee then rose and reported.

MR. VAN BUREN moved to adjourn.

MR. DODGE called for the reading of the resolutions offered by the gentleman from Schenectady (Mr. Yates) and himself, for appointing a committee to arrange the parts of the constitution which have been acted on, or may hereafter be acted on.

The resolutions were read, and after some discussion rejected, and the following resolution, offered by Mr. Van Buren, adopted as a substitute:

"Resolved, That a committee of seven members be appointed, to arrange the amendments which have already and which may hereafter be agreed upon, and to report the same to the Convention, with their opinion as to the expediency of either incorporating them with such parts of the constitution as are not altered by the Convention, or of submitting the same separately to the people."

COL. YOUNG suggested the propriety of amending the eighth section of the report of the committee of the whole, on the right of suffrage, so as to exempt town officers from taking the oath of office, and moved an amendment to that effect.

MR. BACON remarked, that all the reports and amendments would again come before the Convention, when the amendment might be acted on. Postponed.

MR. KING, acting as President, announced the following gentlemen to compose the committee to whom had been referred the report and propositions relative to the judicial department:-Messrs. Munro, Young, Root, Buel, N Williams, Van Buren, and Schenck.

MR. DODGE offered the following resolution :

"Resolved, That a committee of be appointed, to report the time and manner of holding an election for the decision of the people of this state on the amendments which shall be submitted by the Convention, in pursuance of the seventh section of the act of the legislature recommending a Convention, passed March 13, 1821,"

On motion of MR. VAN BUREN, the resolution was ordered to lie on the table. Adjourned.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 25, 1821.

Prayer by the Rev. Mr. RICE. Minutes of yesterday read and approved. On motion of Mr. STEELE, it was ordered, that the journals of the Convention be printed from day to day, as the same are completed.

MR. RADCLIFF, chairman of the committee to whom was referred that part of the report on the appointing power, which had not been acted upon, made a report, which was referred to the committee of the whole, and the usual number of copies ordered to be printed.

THE JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT.

MR. MUNRO, chairman of the select committee, appointed yesterday, to whom was referred the several propositions on the judicial department, reported as follows:

1st. The state may be divided by law into a convenient number of circuits; subject to alteration, as the public good may require. And in case of such division, an equal number of circuit judges shall be appointed, each of whom shall within any of the said districts have the same powers as a judge of the supreme court at his chambers; and within any of the said circuits, shall have power to try issues joined in the supreme court-to preside in courts of oyer and terminer and gaol delivery; and if required by law, to preside in courts of common pleas and general sessions of the peace.

28. The chancellor, the justices of the supreme court, and the circuit judges, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, until the age of sixty years, and shall at the same time hold no other office, appointment, or public trust; and the acceptance thereof by either of them, shall vacate his judicial office; and all votes given by the people, or by the legislature, to any such chancellor, justice, or circuit judge, for any elective office, shall be void.

3d. Equity powers may from time to time be vested by law in such courts, or in such persons, subordinate to the court of chancery, as the public good may require.

4th. The office of judge of probates shall be abolished; and his powers and duties shall devolve upon the court of chancery.

MR. MUNRO moved that the report be printed, and referred to the committee of the whole.

MR. SHARPE believed the subject of the report was well understood. It had been discussed for several days, and he moved that we now go into committee upon it. He understood the committee were not unanimous.

COL. YOUNG approved of this course. He remarked that the committee were last evening unanimous in the report: but one member had changed his opinion this morning, and had set every thing afloat.

MR. VAN BUREN made a few remarks in favour of postponing the report till

to-morrow.

MR. WHEELER seconded the motion of Mr. Sharpe, and the Convention resolved itself into a committee of the whole on the report-Mr. Fairlie in the chair.

MR. MUNRO offered the following amendment as a substitute for the first section of the report of the committee of seven, of which he was chairman.

"The judicial power of this state shall be vested in the court for the trial of impeachments and correction of errors-in the court of chancery-in the supreme court, which may, if the legislature shall so direct, be divided into two separate divisions, each division to hold terms at such times and places as may be directed by law-in courts of common pleas, and general sessions of the peace-and in such other inferior courts as the legislature may from time to time establish, subject in all cases to the appellate jurisdiction of the supreme court,"

The same was ordered to lie on the table, and subsequently rejected.

MR. TOMPKINS did not rise to take any part in the discussion; but as it seemed that the committee had not been unanimous, and that a part of the report had been stricken out, he would move, for the purpose of presenting the question fairly to the Convention, to re-insert the same, to constitute the first section, in the following words:

"The judicial power of this state shall be vested in a court for the trial of impeachments and the correction of errors, to consist of the president of the senate, the senators, the chancellor, and the justices of the supreme court-in a court of chancery, possessing the same jurisdiction and powers as the present court of chancery—in a supreme court, to consist of a chief justice, and not more than four and not less than two associate justices, as the legislature may prescribe, possessing the same jurisdiction and powers as the present supreme court of this state, and the justices thereof now possess-in courts of common pleas-of general sessions of the peace, and in such other courts as may from time to time by law be established."

COL. YOUNG rose to submit a few remarks explanatory of the views of the select committee, whose report was then under consideration. The report was not presented as had been agreed to by the majority of the committee, and al; though the vote of the committee was not precisely in conformity with the principle for which he contended, he considered it a matter of compromise, and was willing to abide by the report, as far as it was in conformity with the principles thus agreed to. He was in favour of giving to the legislature power to organize subordinate courts on certain conditions; but he was not for fixing in the constitution a provision which should bind the legislature, to rivet upon the people a system which we had never tried, and with which we probably should not be pleased. If the Convention should impose on the legislature the duty of making a number of circuit judges, the number of supreme judges would still be the same, which would be a great additional expense; and as had been remarked by the honourable chancellor, a less number of supreme judges would be equally as good.

The greater the number, the greater would be the delay; and the less would be their responsibility for the faithful performance of their duties individually. If the first section was omitted, there would be no limits to the number of judges, and we might be compelled to pay the district judges in addition to the full number of the supreme court as now established, when it was agreed that three would be as good as five. Why are we to feel any regret at placing the judges of the supreme court on the same footing, with respect to future appointments, as we have the judges of common pleas in the different counties in the state? Indeed it is not proposedto do as bad by them; for we do not vary their tenure of office, whilst the first judges of common pleas are restricted to five years, when they have heretofore held for life, or till they arrived at the age of sixty. For this reason he should vote for retaining the first section.

MR. MUNRO wished to explain the manner in which the report had been presented to the Convention.-A majority of the select committee had agreed to the report last evening, but this morning they had not concurred in the report. The principle contained in the first section of the report, among others, came up when the subject was under consideration in the select committee. The ques tion on this section produced a tie, in the six members of the committee, leav ing the casting vote to him (Mr. Munro ;) and he then told the committee that he preferred measures rather than men. He was more anxione cu establish a wholesome system of jurisprudence, than to gratify political ambition by the over

throw of men now in office; still, if public good required that the present incumbents in the judiciary establishment should be thrown from their seats, he would cheerfully acquiesce in the measure; if, by so doing, the committee would give such a system of jurisprudence as should meet his approbation.

It rested with him to put this report in form; he did so; and this morning by note requested the committee again to assemble. He then told them, that he was anxious to bring justice home to the doors of the people in the different parts of the state; and he feared that the plan contended for would give them but the shadow,-the mere semblance of justice without the reality. He was anxious to see justice administered with skilful hands, and in his judgment the district system was not calculated to accomplish that end. It was known full well whence this district system first emanated; and he regretted to have found it springing from such a source. He was fearful that the authors of it would have reason to deplore it themselves.

Here Mr. Munro begged the indulgence of the committee, whilst he should explain the plan which he recommended (plan proposed). Let the court of errors remain as now established; the court of chancery he would not disturb ; but give the legislature power to create vice-chancellors, or subordinate courts of equity, to increase the number of judges of the supreme court, and to divide them into two classes,-locating one class in Albany or New-York, and the other in Utica, or such other place as the legislature should direct; making it the duty of each class to hold four terms every year, and the individuals of both classes to perform all the circuit business in the state. This would be an ample number to perform all the business; and it would be upon the same principle as our present establishment. In this way, we should require but three judges in addition to the present number; and on the plan of district judges, there must be at least double the number. The disadvantages of having local judges had been heretofore sufficiently explained, and the advantages arising froin our present system must be obvious. In either case it was very desirable that the judges should not interfere with politics; and if they would attend to the administration of justice, the plan which he recommended was better calculated to obtain the first talents in the state, and to secure an impartial discharge of duty, than that of having judges preside within their own local districts, among their friends and associates.

From the court of oyer and terminer there is no appeal, unless it is by the consent of the judge who presides; and in this court are determined the causes which affect our liberty and life. Is it not, then, highly important, that the man who is to pass upon the life or death of his fellow mortals, should be a man of integrity and of great legal acquirements? And shall we be confined to a particular district, is better men can be found in the state, out of that district? It is to be hoped this will not be the case.

MR. BUEL. was opposed to the proposition before the committee. What, said he, are we about to do? We are about to provide in our constitution for the removal of the incumbents in our high judicial departments, without having altered in any shape their jurisdiction, or the construction of the courts which they compose. By this, what do we say to the world? We say that we are about to make a constitutional provision, which has no other object than that of pulling from the bench of our supreme court certain individuals who may have become odious to a portion of the community. This is not worthy of the people of the state of New-York, or of this Convention. It will be a disgrace to us.

Mr. B. said he did not take this stand from any particular partiality for these judicial officers, but because he considered it beneath the dignity of so enlightened a body, and because he knew there was a method of reaching such offi ces by law, and that was the wisest course to pursue in this case, if they have done any thing for which they deserve to be removed.

MR. EDWARDS. I do not conceive it proper that a subject of such deep concern should be passed upon without being more thoroughly discussed and seriously considered. However lightly our judicial system may be held by some, yet if we fail in establishing a good one, the community will sooner or later be made to feel that it is a thing of no ordinary importance. A little reflection must satisfy every man, that in a country which is governed solely by laws, an