all the public porters. He appoints the high constable, first marshal, and all the marshals of the city, amounting to about sixty, and he grants licences to all the pawn-brokers. These last, however, are, I believe, entitled to licences on paying for them.

I do not mean to assert that the powers of the mayor are greater than they ought to be, or that they are improperly exercised. But it will be perceived that near four thousand persons depend at least for a part of their subsistence on his will and pleasure. Independently of this patronage, the common council appoint a counsellor, whose office, in point of emolument, is more valuable than that of the Chancellor of the state; an attorney, whose office is more lucrative than that of the chief justice of the supreme court; a comptroller, a treasurer, a public administrator, a superintendent of the alms-house, a keeper of the city prison, a kecper of the penitentiary, a street commissioner, a city inspector, a chief engineer, and a superintendent of repairs, all lucrative offices. They appoint assessors and collectors of assessments, all the city surveyors, siz clerks of justices of the peace, who receive salaries of seven hundred and fifty dollars a year, an inspector of weights and measures, all the sealers of weights and measures, a physician to the city prison, a physician and surgeon to the alms-house, captains of the watch, clerks of the markets, a clerk of the common council, who is also clerk to the board of health, and to the board of supervisors, measurers of grain, lime, and coal, inspectors of wood, weigh masters, pound keepers, health wardens and fire wardens, and a number of subaltern offices. All the stalls, except about a dozen or fifteen, in all the markets, belong exclusively to the corporation, and some of them are of great value. I have known one of those which are private property, sold for fifteen hundred dollars, and have been told by the owner of another, that he had been offered for it three thousand dollars. These stalls were distributed among the butchers by the common council, and until lately without requiring a rent. Now, sir, I would ask whether, in proportion to the inhabitants of the city, this mass of patronage is not already nearly as great as that possessed by the council of appointment? But the common council has still other means of influence. The contracts for lamps and oil, for supplying the poor, for paving the streets, removing earth, for building and repairing wharves, and for many other purposes, amount annually to an enor mous sum. In making this statement, I have been obliged to depend wholly upon my memory, having no documents to refer to ; but should I have committed errors, some of the members from New-York who hear me, and who are better acquainted with the corporation than I am, will, I hope, correct me, And now I would ask, whether it is prudent to commit to this body the distribution of the important and valuable offices mentioned in the resolution upon your table? If the accumulation of patronage in the council of appointment has been proved by experience to be so pernicious as to induce us to abolish it by an unanimous vote, is it likely that a similar accumulation in the common council will have a beneficial effect? Is it not possible that it may have an unfavoura ble influence on their legislation, and may they not, by means of it, establish their power so firmly that even unjust and oppressive measures may be pursued with impunity? I have no disposition to speak of the common council with disrespect, but it cannot be disrespectful to say of them, that they are neither more pure, nor more enlightened, than the senate of the state. Why, then, should it be supposed that they are better qualified to select officers fitted to serve the public? With respect to the precise question now before the committee, I concur with the honourable gentleman from Richmond, (Mr. Tompkins) that the health officer should be appointed by the governor and senate. If either of the three health commissioners should be chosen by the common council, it is the resident physician. But as to the commissioner of the health office, his functions seem to be misunderstood. It is not his duty, as has been supposed, to superintend the removal of nuisances; that is the duty of a municipal officer called the city inspector. He receives and disburses the monies raised and appropriated by the state for the support of the marine hospital, and the other objects connected with the quarantine establishment, and ought, therefore, in my opinion, to be commissioned by the state. I do not mean at present to repeat the considerations which I urged on a former occasion, not to detain the

Committee by additional remarks; but I hope they will weigh the consequences maturely, before they transfer to the common council the power of appointing to the important offices mentioned in the resolution submitted by the gentleman from New-York.

MR. FAIRLIE opposed the amendment.

The health department was important; and the quarantine ground at StatenIsland was of far greater consequence, than the celebrated spot yesterday alluded to in debate.

MR. RADCLIFF remarked, that if there was any thing of peculiar interest in the appointment of the officers of that city, it was in relation to the health department. If there was any thing in which the people of this city could be trusted, and to which their sensibilities were alive, it was the designation of those officers who were appointed to guard them from the introduction of disease. That department was established to protect-not the county of Richmond, but the city of New-York. It was the city that was to be peculiarly affected by the conduct of that department. They were associated with the public regulations of the city. It was therefore important that there should be a harmony between the different officers who constitute that department, arising from the circumstance of deriving their authority from one and the same source. These officers were not important or desirable, except as it related to the welfare of the city. Every person, excepting the present incumbent, who had heretofore filled the office of health-officer, had died; and although it was an office of some emolument, yet its patronage was only desirable, as it was important to the best interests of the metropolis.

Mr. R. replied to the remarks of the gentleman from Westchester, (Mr. Jay,) and considered the picture he had presented as overdone, although he admitted that the patronage of the mayor was great, as derived from his charter privileges;-but he inquired, where could that power be more safely or properly reposed? A great state, with a great city, must necessarily confide important powers, and unless some better system could be devised, he could not see the inexpediency of referring to the common council the appointing power, to the extent which his amendment had proposed.

MR. TOMPKINS did not object to the amendment of the gentleman last up, so far as related particularly to the city. But foreigners were interested in the subject. The United States and state establishinents were also concerned in it. He had seen seventy-four vessels riding there at anchor, in quarantine, at one time. All these, and the county of Richmond, were especially and deeply interested in this appointment. He did not claim the appointment for the county of Richmond, but as foreigners, and the government, and the people of the United States, and of this state, were interested in it, he thought it should be confided, not to a local, but to a general appointing power.

COL. YOUNG had no doubt that the city of New-York felt a great solicitude for the proper appointment of the health officer. So also did the country. It was, therefore, incumbent on the gentlemen from the city to show that the state appointing power had abused their trust in previous appointments, before they claimed it. He believed this was not chargeable upon that power.

It had not occurred to him, that there was such an extent of official patronage in that city as had been developed this morning. Unless, thereforo, such abuse had been shewn, he thought there was no reason for the local authorities of that city to claim it for themselves. And there was, in his opinion, great weight in the consideration that the expenditure and revenue of that establishment were sustained by the state on the one hand, and derived from vessels that come from foreign ports, on the other.

MR. EDWARDS observed that the object, and the sole object, of establishing the health department at Staten Island, was to prevent the introduction of yel low fever and pestilence into the city of New-York. The question now is, shall this officer be designated and appointed by those whose health, interest, and lives, are at stake, or shall he be appointed at the distance of 160 miles from them, and by persons who cannot be affected by the manner in which the duties of that office are discharged? It is a serious question, and deserves deliberate consideration. How far we had suffered heretofore from bad appoint、

ments he could not tell; but from the nature of the case, it is reasonable to suppose that the fathers of that city would appoint more suitable inen, than persons residing at so great a distance. This officer is placed in his ser try-box on Staten Island-not to guard the county of Richmond, but the city of New-York. It is said that this establishment was purchased by the state, and that this officer has the sole management and control of it. He (Mr. E.) had no desire to control the property of the state. He was willing that that should be left to the legislature.

Mr. E. animadverted upon the remarks of the gentleman from Westchester, (Mr. Jay,) and contended that the patronage of the corporation of NewYork was altogether less than would be inferred from his statement, and ex pressed his belief that the whole amount of salaries paid by the corporation did not exceed $25,000 per annum. He thought there was no danger in confid. ing the appointing powers to the cominon council. They were annually elected, and as the people could not assemble en masse, this was bringing home to them the appointment, as far as was practicable.

CHANCELLOR KENT was in favour of the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Richmond. Not only the city of New-York, but the commerce of the United States, was interested in the health office department. There was no danger of favouritism in referring the appointment to the general appointing power, as the governor was required to nominate by message. It was a concern of general interest. Long Island, the shores of the Hudson, the United States in general, and foreigners, would all be affected by it. Besides, he was not disposed to accumulate too much power in any body, however respectable and important that body might be; and he thought the common council woul have power enough without this addition.

MR. SHARPE thought the health officer was a very important officer, and the resident physician and commissioner of the health office, were local officers. The latter ought surely to be selected and appointed by the city. Their du ties were pressing and great. They were empowered to fence up the streets, and utterly shut up and discontinue the commerce of the infected parts of the city. He thought the former was a state officer, and should be appointed by the state authority. In his opinion they should derive their appointments from different sources. They would thus be a check upon each other, in the expen diture of the monies that passed through the hands of that department. A hospital and church had been erected from its surplus funds, and experience had shewn, that those health officers who went to Staten Island, whatever might be their circumstances when they went there, when they came away, if their lives were spared, came away men of large property.

It had been said that the patronage of the mayor was enormous. This was not correct to the extent that it seemed to be supposed. With respect to car men and porters-where was the importance of the patronage? Somebody must sign the licences-and for what purpose? For his benefit, or to his emolument? Not at al'. It is merely for the security of the public, in order that if a person of that description should run away with a man's trunk, by knowing the number of his cart, or barrow, the fraud might be detected. Mr. S. also examined other offices of similar local description, to shew that the patronage respecting them was not important, and that it could not be dangerous to confide it to those who were annually elected by ten different wards in the city. Mr. S. was willing that ail state officers should be appointed by the general appointing power of the state; but with respect to the residue of others who were not provided for, they should be designated and appointed either directly by the people, or by those who derive their authority immediately from the people; and he applied this principle to the various offices which had not been hitherto provided for. Mr. S. thereupon moved that the committee rise and report, with the view of referring the subject to a select committee.

MR. MUNRO said, that a motion had been made to reconsider the vote, relative to the appointment of inayor of New-York; and although the motion for reconsideration prevailed, the subject had not been acted on. He made some remarks in favour of taking up that subject now.

After some desultory discussion, the committee rose and reported.

In Convention, Mr. SHARPE moved that the committee of the whole be discharged from the further consideration of the subject, and that the same, together with whatever relates to the subject of appointment, not hitherto acted upon, be referred to a select committee.

After a desultory discussion of the subject, Mr. SHARPE withdrew his motion, to the end that gentlemen might take such course in relation to it as they might think proper.

COL. YOUNG then moved that the whole subject of the appointing power be referred to a select committee.

MR. BACON was unwilling to travel over those parts of the report of the select committee on that subject, which had been already passed over and settled. MR. P. R. LIVINGSTON reduced to writing the object of Mr. Young, and presented the same in the terms of the following resolution:

"That the committee of the whole be discharged from the further consideration of the report of the committee on the subject of the appointing power, and that the same be referred to a select committee of to take the said report into consideration, and to make such amendments and to report the same as they may think proper."

COL. YOUNG assented to the resolution.

MR. VAN VECHTEN was opposed to referring this subject to a select committee. Such a committee would not be at liberty to give and take, as had been suggested, from the principles adopted by the Convention. It appeared to him we were treading back the ground we had once traversed, and were preparing to protract our business, of which the people were already weary.

Mr. Van Buren was also opposed to this general reference. He thought it would create alarm and apprehension among the people, that the Convention were about to undo all they had done, and to extend the session to a great and unreasonable length.

COL. YOUNG Contended that the reference ought to be general, and not in detached parts, as one might have an important bearing upon the other.

MR. EDWARDS said, that if any one subject had been thoroughly winnowed, it was this which respected the appointing power. The people were already wearied with our protracted session, and it was desirable to finish and complete our business as we advanced.

MR. P. R. LIVINGSTON advocated his resolution, and contended that great good had been produced by former and similar references.

MR. N. WILLIAMS rose to urge the propriety, at this stage of the discussion, on the appointing power, of referring the whole subject to a select committee. It was important not to lose time, but more important to the Convention, and the people, that every thing should be done with due deliberation.

The objection urged so strongly, that if the subject was now referred to a committee, the whole must be again discussed in the Convention, appeared to him not to have weight. The Committee would doubtless pay all proper regard to the principles settled in committee of the whole, and the report must be submitted sooner or later, to a special committee for revision and adjustment. But why, he asked, do we find such extreme anxiety expressed by certain gentlemen in the covention, to have the appointing power of the city of NewYork, acted on by itself? Have we not more than once been told by some of the honourable gentlemen from that city, that they were willing, nay, solicitous, to be placed on the same footing with the country in relation to appointments? And yet, now, when there is a prospect of attaining that desired object, by a reference of the whole to a select committee, who will be able to adjust and report a uniform plan, an alarm is excited, and objections are raised. Although he could not well comprehend all this discrepancy of action, he would be allowed to conjecture, and he would do it with all proper delicacy, that while there was some want of concert as to the regulation of city patronage and power, some of the honourable gentlemen from the city, came here perfectly well agreed as to their plans for governing the country; for they act on this point with fatal firmness, and almost entire unanimity. Indeed, he said,

the confusion on this subject had chiefly arisen from the various plans in rela tion to New-York, which had been laid upon our tables. One project had scarcely been printed and read, before another had come upon us by surprise; and ere that was fully understood, the subject must be referred to a select committee. He would not object to this, and only asked that the whole report might go together.

He would say very little about the appointing power in New-York. He did not pretend to know much about it, and did not wish to embarrass the subject. As much power and patronage as it should be thought proper to be given to the common council of that city, he did not doubt would be executed discreetly, wisely, and justly. But the question was, how much should be given? Shall we give up to the city authority the whole regulation of that grand emporium, and thus create a power that night become, in process of time, greater than that of the state? He should question the wisdom of this. One honourable gentleman from that city had said, to be sure, that there was no danger in placing patronage in their hands, for it would be exercised by the fathers of the city. We had heard, said Mr. W. of the fathers of ancient Rome, the Patris Conscripti; and they were not backward to grasp at power when opportunity presented. They first governed the imperial city; then all Italy; and then extended the arm of power over the mightiest and most extensive government in the world. Should the powers of the city and state be separated, and become independent, the one of the other, great evils might arise; and these fathers of the city might, perchance, aim to be fathers of the state, and possibly endanger even the Grand Canal! [Here the gentleman was called to order; this subject was not before the Convention.] Mr. W. continued, and said he did not intend to be out of order, and intended to shew that the appointing power of the state, as well as of the city, in order to have a perfect whole, ought to be referred to the same select committee. And with this view, proceeded to urge further reasons why this course ought to be adopted.

A further debate ensued, in which Messrs. Ross and Briggs supported, and Messrs. Edwards, Van Buren, and Kent, opposed an unrestricted reference, when the question was taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Bacon, Brooks, Buel, Carpenter, Carver, Child, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Clyde, Collins, Day, Dodge, Dubois, Duer, Dyckman, Eastwood, Edwards, Fairlie, Ferris, Fish, Frost, Hallock, Hees, Hogeboom, Howe, Hum phrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Huntington, Hurd, Jay, Jones, Kent, King, Lansing, Lefferts, M'Call, Millikin, Moore, Munro, Park, Paulding, Pike, Pitcher, Porter, Price, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Reeve, Rhinelander, Richards, Rogers, Rose, Rosebrugh, Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Seaman, Seely, Sharpe, Sheldon, R. Smith, I. Sutherland, Swift, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van Fleet, Van Horne, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Verbryck, Ward, A. Webster, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, E. Williams, Woods-86.

AYES-Messrs. Barlow, Beckwith, Briggs, Brinkerhoff, Burroughs, Case, Cramer, Fenton, Knowles, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, Nelson, Rockwell, Root, Ross, Russell, Schenck, Starkweather, Steele, Taylor, Wheeler, N. Williams, Wooster, Yates, Young-25.

MR. RADCLIFF then moved that that part of the report of the committee on the appointing power which had not hitherto been acted upon, be referred to a select committee. Carried.

COL. YOUNG moved that the same be referred to the delegates from the city and county of New-York. Lost.

It was then ordered that said committee consist of the number of thirteen. MR. MUNRO offered a resolution, which after amendments by the mover, and by the Convention, was referred to the foregoing committee, as follows:

"Resolved, That the mayor of the city of New-York ought to be appointed by the governor, with the consent of the senate."

MR. Ross proposed to refer the following resolution to the same committée :