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some of the newly invented hydranlic cement, to this kind that the executive i£ to furnish through his high appointing anthority. But we are told that the sheriff is an executive officer, and should therefore he under the direction of the executive of the state, whose duty it is to see the laws executed. Is the sheriff' to he a humhle tool in the hands of the executive, as an axe or a hammer in the hands of the carpenter? The old council of appointment have sometimes undertaken to appoint sheriffs that were not very agreeahle to the feelings of tho governor; and have not these sheriffs done as well as the humhlest tool of the executive? Have not the sheriffs appointed the last winter, discharged their duty as well as if they had heen thus cemented to the governor? The gentleman from Queens has told us, that the sheriffs should not he appointed hy the people, hecanse the marshals of the different states are not appointed hy the individual state where they have jurisdiction. The gentleman is well acquainted with the confederation of the United States, and the principles of government; hut would the gentleman compare the counties in our state, with the states iit the union as they respect the general government? Have we, then, fifty-two independent repuhlies in this state, all comhined in one great confederated repuhlic? Are people to he informed, that hecause the marshals of the different gates are appointed hy the president of the United States, the sheriffs in the different counties of this state must he appointed hy the executive? The ho-' nourahle gentleman from Oneida tells us, that if the sheriffs are elected, they will visit the sins of their pockets upon the people, which of all others are the most terrihle to a man that is in deht—they will collect the seven phials of wrath into one great hottle, to pour out upon the heads of those who may oppose their election. Would he he any more likely to wreak his fury on those who opposed his election, than on those who might oppose his appointment hy a council? I think not. It is proposed that the sheriff shall hold his office for a given time, and then he ineligihle for a time, hy which means he cannot turn his influence, while in office, to the purpose of a re-election.
The gentleman from Oneida is fearful that this method will stir up commotion at the elections; and I don't know hut fighting, and every thing else that is direful.
The little commotion that would he excited, would he only that healthful excitement which warms and invigorates. It is necessary that there should he a little warmth and hustle occasionally, if it does not amount to hoxing matehes. It keeps the political hlood in a genial cireulation, and prevents it from run, ning cold, and the heart from ceasing to palpitate. If your sheriff and clerk are elected hy the people, they will feel a greater duty imposed on them, to discharge their office with fidelity. They will not he necessarily drawn into tlnpolitical cahals at the seat of government. They will not he looking toparty divisions, and suh-diviMonr, and waiting with painful anxiety to see which party is to predominate, that they may not he found in the minority, as the gentle man from New-York, (Mr. Kdwards) has told us he was, in the assemhly, there heing hut twenty-six of the party to which he helonged, and he had to wait threo or four years hefore his party prevailed. They »ill look to the people for patronage, and 1 am unwilling to place them in such a situation, that when theirpolilical party may happen to he the minority, they w ill he compelled to surrender all, and hegin a warfare to huild up a new party, and stand m confusion, wondering which way a political party will shape itself hefore they know which way to go. If they are elected hy the people, they will know where to look for their support, and how to merit it.
I have no opioion of having sheriffs and clerks in the country, appointed and removed at the will of individuals in great cities. In the county where I reside, there have heen sheriffs and clerks that could not ohtain a majority of votes in the county. The people were justly displeased, and 1 am anxious that they should he satisfied.
A divisinn having heen called for on the first part thereof, relating to sheriffs, the same was decide.I in the affirmative as follows:
AYES.—Messrs.Iiacou, Baker, Barlow, Bowman,Briggs, Brooks,Burroughs Carpenter, Carver, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Collins, Cramer, Day, Duhois. Dnrr, pyckman, F lwards, Ferrjs, Fisher, Frost, Hces, Humphrey, Hunt, Hub,fc r, Hunting, Huntington. Hurd, A. Livingston, M'Call, Moore, Tark, Piteher, Price, Pumpelly, Badellif, Rhinelander, Richards, Root, Rose, Sage, N. Sanford, I;. Sandford, Schenck, Seeley, Sharpe, Sheldon, I. Smith, R. Smith, Spencer, Stagg, Starkweather, Steele, D. Southerland, Swift, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Taylor,Townley, Townsend, Tuttle, Van Fleet, Van Home, Van Ness, Ward, E. Wehster, E. Williams, Woodward, Wooster, Young—71.
NOES Messrs. Iieckwith, Birdseyo, Breese, Brinkerhoff, Bnel, Child,
Eastwood, Fairlie, Hallock, Hogehoom, Howe, Jay, Jones, Kent, King, Lansing, P. R- Livingston, Munro, Nelson, Panlding. Piatt, Porter, Reeve, Rockwell. Ross, Russell, Seaman, Ten Eyck, Van Buren, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, A. Wehster, Wendover, Wheaton, N. Williams, Woods, Yates. —36.
The residue of the section relative to county clerks, was then taken and carried without a division.
Mr. Munro offered an amendment as follows: "But the county shall never he made surety for the sheritf, nor responsihle for his acts." Carried.
Gts. Root then moved that the word "including" he stricken out of the 3d section, and the word "except," he inserted. Carried.
Mb. N. Williams moved to insert the words "cities and" next preceding the word "counties", in reference to the offices of the sheriffs and clerks, and after some dehate thereon, he modified the same hy proposing to insert after the words county clerks, "the sheriff, register, and county clerk of the city of New-York."
But hefore any question was taken thereon, the committee rose, reported progress, and ohtained leave to sit again; and the Convention adjourned.
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 10, 1821.
The Convention assemhled as usual. Prayer hy the Rev. Dr. Chester; The minutes of yesterday were then read and approved.
THE APPOINTING POWER.
On motion of Mr. N. Sanford, the Convention resolved itself into a committee of the whole on the appointing power. Mr. Lawrence in the chair.
Mr. N. Willi Ams. I had the honour to make a motion yesterday, to insert, after the words, " county clerks," the words, " the sheriff, register, and county /•lerk of the city and county of New-York; hut really, sir, having no wish to emharrass the plans of the honourahle gentlemen who represent the city of New-York for its municipal government; and much less to entail upon the citizens of New-York a principle that will prove so destructive, in my opinion, to its future peace and happiness, as well as to every part of the country where it is adopted, I will take the liherty of withdawing the motion.
Mr. Edwarns renewed the motion which the gentleman from Ooeida had just withdrawn. Carried.
Mr. Tompkms offered the following amendment:
•s And the governor may remove any such sheriff, clerk, or register, at any time within the said three years for which the said sheriff, clerk, or register, shall he elected, giving to such sheriff, clerk, or register, a copy of the complaint or charge sgamst him, and an opportunity of heing heard in answer theieto hefore any decision or removal shall he made."
Judge Van Ness said, he helieved it was agreed on all hands, that it was necessary to have a power somewhere sufficient to remove sheriffs in case of incapacity to discharge the duties of that office with propriety; and in cases of mal-conduct; although a man might he worthy and well qualified, when he iiai appointed, he might, hefurr his term expired, hecome hankrupt, or iom hi-, character for integrity, which would render it unsafe for him to retain Uw office. Cases might occur, where local disaffections to the government, might render it important that this officer be changed. If it was necessary to bare this power any where, it was necessary to have it where it could be exercised with firmness. It was bis opinion that the governor would be the most proper person to exercise this power; as he could have no possible motive, except that of the public good, for lie could not possess the power of filling the office with kis friend, after it was vacated—even if he could, he would be cautious bow be offended the people of a county, for the sake of gratifying a friend. It had been suggested, that the officer ought to have an opportunity to make a defence—and that the executive should make known the reasons for which he removes; this, he thought, might sometimes be improper. There might sometimes be cogent reasons fur a removal, which would be improper to disclose—there might becertain immoral disqualifications which would be indelicate to make known. The honourable President of the Convention, had added to the proposition which was offered, such improvement as he deemed wholesome ; but he did not think there could be any possible inducement for the executive to abuse this power, if it was submitted to him alone. His responsibility to the people annually would be a sufficient guard against an improper exercise of his power.
Mr. Tompkins said that by dividing his proposition, the gentleman from Columbia might try the sense of the Convention on the power of removal without cause assigned.
Gen. Root wished the cause of removal might be known and assigned. He was no friend to gubernatorial delicacy. We had seen too much of it already.
Judge Van Ness modified his proposition, which was, however, withdrawn, at the suggestion of Mr. Tornpkins, and Mr. T.'s was substituted.
Mr. Tompkins gloved that his proposition be divided into two parts. Carried.
The question on the first part, relating to the removal of sheriffs, was taken and carried.
The question was then stated to be on the second part of the proposition, requiring_the governor to assign reasons for such removal, and to give to the sheriff an opportunity of appearing in his own defence.
Chancellor Kent was opposed to the proposition, on the ground that it might be expedient for the governor to remove sheriffs without assigning his reasons. He thought the executive should have both the appointment and removal of those officers. The governor was the great sheriff of the state, and the sheriffs should be considered in the light of deputies.
Chief Justice Spencer approved of the proposition. No officer should be removed for arbitrary cause, nor without good reasons. He could not concur in opinion with his honourable colleague, (Mr. Kent.) It was desirable to break into fragments and disperse the appointing power; and this Convention would never consent to give the governor the power of appointing and removing his own sheriffs. He thought there was no necessity of departing from a valulile principle.
Mr. Tompkins xvas confirmed in the expediency of retaining that provision in his amendment. It is the professed object of all to exclude party. But if this clause be rejected, a sheriff may be displaced in secret, and williout cause assigned, which may be merely a political one, and thereby his character impaired by supposing it to proceed from moral disqualifications known to the executive. It would really be conferring the power of appointment on the governor, and introducing that very party spirit which we ought to exclude.
Mr. Radcliff was opposed to the last part of the proposition of the honourable gentleman from Richmond.
Gen. Root again expressed himsejf in its favour. He was not in favour of yielding the reputation of his fellow-citizens to the delicacy of the executive. Suppose a case in which the political parties in a county are nearly balanced. He removes the successful candidate, who is opposed to him in politics. He being ineligible for the next three years, and not like John Wilkcs, capable of being thrust back upon the executive, and being placed hors combat, is effectually placed in the back ground. The same game is continued, until all the popular candidates arc laid on the shelf. In this way he may vacate the election of the people,and render nugatory the provision which theConvention had passed. The question was then put and carried. The chairman then read the .1 Oth clause.
Mr. Radcliff moved to strike out the words, "except the (mayor of) the city of New-York."
Mr. Faihlif. opposed the motion. He thought it was inexpedient to make the mayor the mere creature of the common council.
Mr. Jay waa also opposed to the motion of Mr. Radcliff. He said the mayor of the city might otherwise be opposed to the executive, and it waa important that there should be an union and harmony of sentiment between them. The mayor of that city has great power, which li more arbitrary within iti jurisdiction, than that of the president of the United States. He (Mr. J.) was not in favour of accumulating the power at the seat of government, but there was a moderation to be observed in all thing's, and lie feared we were verging to an Unreasonable jealousy of the general appointing power. The mayor was the preserver of the peace, and the head of the police of that city. .It was proper, therefore, that he should be independent of the city in the exercise of bis power, which might require him to suppress mobs, of which there had been one of three or four days continuance in that city.
Mr. Munro concurred with his honourable colleague. The proposition would reduce the mayor to a mere chairman of the corporation.
Mr. Srarpe supported the motion; and hoped if the mayors of other cities trere to be appointed by the common council, New-York would not be an exception. A great part of his judicial power had been given to the first judge.
Mr. Radcliff had hoped that the principle of having officers elected by the people had been established by this Convention; and therefore he would not enter into a discussion of its propriety. Have we not examples on this subject? The city of Philadelphia appoint their mayor by the common council, and no evils are known to result from that method there. In the city of New-York, the duties formerly incumbent on the mayor are now divided. He is merely a ministerial officer, who attends to the police and good order of the city. He, to be sure, appoints carmen and marshals; but he should apprehend no danger from him on that account. With respect to this city being more exposed to mobs than other places, he did not think it was the case. We have been told by a gentleman from Westchester, that within his recollection there was a great mob in that city. It was not apolitical mob, but a mob of doctors.
Mil Fairlie said the mayor and sheriff of New-York were charter officers, and with these we ought not to meddle.
Mr. J At said there had been tumults in the city of New-York, and it was fair to argue to the future from the past. He had not said there had been political mobs, but it was immaterial to him if his house was to be torn down, and his life jeopardized, whether it was done by a political mob, or any other kind of mob. He waa in the political minority, and for that very reason he wished the executive of the city might act in union with the executive of the state, that the stronger arm of the latter may be lent to the former, to protect him from outrages. It was indeed peaceable at present in that city. He hoped it would so continue. But it was not correct to say that because the sun shines to-day, we -hull have no storm to-morrow.
In relation to the powers of the mayor—it is true that they have been divided—but he is not divested of them. In that division, all his judioial powers are distinctly reserved, and it was only to relieve him from too heavy a burthen that a separation was authorized, but he retains the same powers he ever bad, and may at any time resume their exercise.
Mr. Sharpe said, if mobs and tumults should arise, a mayor elected by the corporation would be as well qualified to quell them as a magistrate elected at Albany.
Col. You.no thought that the aldermen and assistant aldermen were not of .1 character to encourage or favour tumults and mobs. He believed the corporation was a very proper tribunal for the appointment of the mayor.
Mr. Munro said that the mayor and corporation would completely control the elections of the city, if the former were appointed hy the latter.
Mr. Van Buhen would vote for the motion, although it was not contemplated to appoint the mayor hy the general appointing power, as had hy some heen supposed.
The Cit/ef Justice remarked, that the corporation of New-York had heretofore heen, and now were, composed of men who would not he likely to encourage mohs. A case, however, might occur, when men of a different character might he elected, and when nothing could save the city. He should, however, vote for the motion, as he helieved the corporation hetter qualified than any power at Alhany. Question taken, and decided as follows:
AYES—Messrs. Bacon, Barlow, Beckwith, Birdseye, Bowman, Brinkerhoff. Brooks, Burroughs, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Clyde, Collins, Cramer, Day, Dubois, Duer, Dyckman, Eastwood, Edwards, Pcutoti, Ferris, Pish, Frost, Hallock, Hees, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Huntington, Hurd, Kent, King, Lefferts, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Millikio. Moore, Nelson, Panlding, President, Price, Pumpelly, Radeliff, Rhinelander, Richards, Root, Rose, Russell, Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seaman, Seeley, Sharpe, I. Smith, R. Smith, Spencer, Stagg, Starkweather, Steele, Swift, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Taylor, Ten Eyck, Townley, Townsend, Tripp, Tultle, Van Buren, Van Fleet, Van Ness, Van Vechten, Ward, A. Wehster, E. Wehster, Wendorer, Wheaton, E. Williams, Wooster, Young—87. »
NOES—Messrs. Buel, CNld, Fairlie, Hogehoom, Jay, Lansing, Munro, Park, Piatt, Rockwell, Sheldon, I. Sutherland, Van Home, J. R. Van Rensselaer, N. Williams, Yates—16.
Mr. Edwarns moved to strike out the words " and clerks."
After some desultory discussion, the question was put and carried.
The fifth section of the report, as amended, was then read.
Mr. Van Buhen said, that in the amendment of the gentleman from Orange, the term of office of justices was left in hlank. He moved that the hlank he filled with three years. One, two, and four years were also moved.
Gen. Tallmadge proposed an amendment—that the justices hold their offices for four years, and a fourth part he elected annually, to give stahility to the magistracy.
Chtef Justice Spe.nCfrsaid, in some towns there would he hut one justice, in others two and three, &c. It would therefore he impracticahle to appoint a, portion of them annually.
The question on four years (the longest term) was put and lost.
The question on three years was put and carried.
The clanse as follows was then read and approved.
"That any person so appointed a justice of the peace, may hold his office for three years, unless removed hy the county court, or court of common pleas, for cruses particularly assigned hy the judges of the said court. And thai no justice of the.peace shall he so removed, until notice is given him of the chsrges made against him, and an opportunity afforded him of heing heard in his defence.1'
The sixth section was then read in the words following:
,i 6. That all officers under the anthority of the government of this state, In the sity of New-York, whose appointment is noi vested in the common council of said city, or in the governor, hy and with the advice and consent of the senate, shall he appointed in the follo wing manner, to wit :—The inhahitants of the respective wards of that city, qualified to vole for memhers of the legislature, shall elect one person in each of the said wards, and the persons so elected, shall constitute a hoard of electors for the appointment and removal of all such officers. That immediately after they shall he assemhled in consequence of the first election, they shall he divided as equally as may he, into three classes. The seats of the electors of the first class shall he vacated at the expiration of the first year t of ti.e second class at the expiration of the second year; and of the third class at