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proceeded to show, that under the existing organization of the magistracy, the people were called upon to answer before local juries, selected by local magistrates, and that no cause of complaint had ever existed. He then proceeded to show how faithfully and how discreetly the people exercised all their town privileges, and procceded to express his surprize that their discretion should be called in question in the face of these facts. The wise men, he said, who were now here assembled, were selected by the inhabitants of these very towns in their collective capacities. The people have indirectly chosen a succession of men to be Presidents of the United States who were not only ornaments of their country, but ornaments of human nature; and yet their ability to select inferior magistrates was questioned, and by men who but yesterday were loud in their elogiums upon them, and were for investing them with the right of universal suffrage. Some gentlemen seemed to proceed upon the idea that although in their collective capacity the people were competent to the exercise of any trust, yet, when they were broken into fragments, and acted in small communities, no confidence was to be reposed in them. To my mind, sir, there is something very inconsistent in all this, and I am very apprehensive that considerations are operating which are unworthy of notice. My honourable colleague, (Mr. Sharpe) observed a few days since, that before he left his home he had heard it intimated that we should be influenced by party considerations, and that he had denied it. I also, sir, heard similar intimations which I always repelled with indignation; and I hope sincerely that I may not be disappointed;-that no gentlemen will for a moment suffer himself to be divert ed from the faithful and honest discharge of the duty he owes to the whole community, and to those who will succeed us, by any such considerations. As it respects myself, I realize most sensibly my incompetency to the task which is imposed upon me. After doing my utmost to elevate myself above every party and every selfish consideration, I still find myself much embarrassed in determining upon the best course to be pursued. The measures which I here sanction by my vote, will ever be subjects of solicitude to me; and I shall ever contemplate them with pleasure or pain, as they prove to be beneficial or otherwise.

Mr. Edwards then proceeded to show that the plan proposed by Mr. Van Buren, would still leave in the executive the power of organizing a body of men, in every town in the state, who could be materially influenced by him, and that through them he could produce a vibration in every neighbourhood. He expressed a hope that the cord which connected them with the executive would be cut. He then proceeded, to show why it was that the magistracy of the state was so degraded, and averred that it was mainly to be ascribed to the fact, that those officers were more frequently bestowed as a remuneration for devotion to the views of particular individuals, than from a regard to the merit of those who received them. That they were no longer considered as testimonials of merit. He contrasted the character of the magistracy of this state with that of many of the sister states, and of the mother country; and then proceeded to show in what manner they could be made honourable, and worthy of the acceptance of the most respectable men. The mode proposed of electing them in towns, he was satisfied was the best. Four years ago he advocated this proposition in the legislature. It was then considered a wild project. Public attention, however, has since been drawn to it; and he was satisfied that two-thirds of the people of this state were in favour of it. At that time he was in a small minority in the legislature, consisting of but twenty-four. He had now the honour of finding himself in a body where his political opponents did not exceed sixteen. He could not, therefore be accused of urging this project with a view to answer any sinister ends; for upon this point he had pursued the even tenor of his way through the storms of adversity, and in the sunshine of prosperity.

MR. KING. If the committee should reconsider the question, it would bind no one in voting on the question which may be reconsidered-it may be approved, or again negatived, as the committee shall decide. Another proposal has been read, which is intended to be offered to the committee hereafter. It as reasonable to reconsider; as in this case, as well the proposal which is an nounce 1, as the plan of electing magistrates by town meetings will be before

the committee; whereas, by refuing to reconsider, the plan of electing justices of the peace in town meetings will stand condemned, and there will be nothing before the committee but a scheme which in effect will send the appointment to the seat of government, to be made by the governor.

The chief object is to separate from the seat of government the appointment of justices of the peace; whether such appointment be made in town meetings, or in any other satisfactory mode within the several counties, is not so material as that it shall be withdrawn from the governor and sent into the counties.

It is not improper to advert to the plan which is to be laid before the committee; a double nomination in the several counties is to be made by the supervisors and by the county court-if the nominations agree, the persons so jointly nominated are to be appointed justices; and where the nominations disagree, the double nominations are to be sent to the governor to choose. The consequence will probably be, that the nominations will generally disagree, and be referred to the governor. In substance, with slight variation, this is the same project as was some days past negatived, and negatived because it brought all these appointments to Albany, where the same intrigue and bad influence would again prevail as were encouraged under the council of appointment.

Cut off the communication with the seat of government, and there will be little difficulty in making useful and worthy appointments.

It seems to be feared that unless these appointments be made by others than the people that disorder and tumult will be excited among the people-but why more than in the election of supervisors and other town officers? Whether the influence or strength of parties will be affected favourably or otherwise by either of the proposals, I am entirely ignorant. But one thing I do know, that in establishing for futurity the provisions of the constitution, they should repose on principles which are stable, and not on the interest of parties, which are ephemeral and subject to endless changes. I shall make no mistake in confiding the choice of magistrates to the people in town meetings.

It is alleged by the gentleman from Delaware, that the appointment of justices in town meetings would be aristocratical. Names do not alter things;if it be aristocracy for one town to elect a justice of the peace, who is to try cases between any of the inhabitants of the county, it is also aristocracy for any and every other town in like manner to elect justices in their respective towns and as all the towns are to elect their own justices, all the towns are equal, and will exercise equal rights. Thus equality and aristocracy mean, in the language of the debate, the same thing.

Call a country town meeting an aristocracy! What, then, may it not be called! But give to this simple, primitive, and innocent association what bad name we like, still a town meeting of freemen presents a picture of order, of freedom, and intelligence, which is the envy of other lands, and which is the basis and security of our republican system.

The question is, whether a town meeting be competent to elect a justice of the peace.

What qualification is necessary to make this appointment? The ability to distinguish among the candidates, so as to select him who possesses wisdom, integrity, and learning, sufficient to discharge the duties of the office.

And who are so capable of knowing these qualifications in the inhabitants of any town, as the inhabitants themselves?

There exists not any body of men who are so able to judge of the merits of the candidates as their own townsmen: born, educated, and brought up together, they thoroughly understand, and have measured and compared, every faculty of their minds and bodies.

From childhood to manhood they have had constant intercourse with each other, and are therefore above all other men the most capable to select such as are best qualified for any service to which they may be called. They are also likely to be impartial towards each other, and to select, without envy, the most worthy. There is a beauty and simplicity in this mode of choosing the magis trates, who, we may presume, will promote peace and order, and arbitrate justly between their neighbours.

No political consideration properly belongs to this subject; no flattery to

the people is intended by the proposal; but with the provisions which are, and will be provided for the education of our fellow-citizens, we ought to have no fear in securing to them in their town-meetings, the right of choosing the justices of the peace throughout the state.

I am for confirming to the people the choice of their own magistrates; and confidently believe that we shall thereby obtain a more honest, enlightened and prudent magistracy than has before existed among us.

MR. VAN BUREN proposed to reply hereafter to the observations of the gentleman from New-York (Mr. Edwards.) At present he would only observe, that when party feeling first disclosed itself on this subject, it was not on that side of the house, which now opposed a reconsideration of the question. He was willing it should be examined and let the blame rest where it ought.

The honourable gentleman from Queens (Mr. King) had deemed a reconsideration a matter of courtesy-not involving the final determination of the question. He could not however but consider it in a different point of view, and thought it was in vain to disguise it, that a decision on the motion of the honourable gentleman from Westchester would be substantially final and conclusive.

MR. TOMPKINS was also opposed to a reconsideration, and wished that the question might now be disposed of; but, on motion, the committee rose, report. ed progress, and obtained leave to sit again, and the Convention adjourned.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 9, 1821. The President assumed the chair at the usual hour when the minutes of yesterday were read and approved.

THE APPOINTING POWER.

On motion, the Convention resolved itself into a committee of the whole, on the unfinished business of yesterday (the appointing power.)-Mr. Lawrence in the chair.

MR. JAY said, that finding his motion to reconsider the question relative to the election of justices, had produced considerable excitement, and was about to call forth a protracted debate; he would wish, for the present, to withdraw it: reserving to himself the privilege of renewing his motion hereafter, if he should think proper to do so.

Second section under consideration; which provides for the appointment of secretary of state, attorney-general, and all judicial officers, except justices of the peace, by the governor and senate.

JUDGE PLATT moved an amendment which he had proposed some days before, and which had been ordered to be printed. This amendment contained two sections: the former providing for the appointment of some of the higher officers by the governor and senate, and the latter for the election of a body of mine in each county, to serve as a council of appointment for county officers. MR. PRESIDENT was opposed to taking up the first section of this amendment

now.

JUDGE VAN NESS moved to postpone its consideration until to-morrow, which was agreed to.

The question being taken on the amendment offered by Judge Platt, by ayes and noes, the same was decided in the negative by all the members present, excepting Messrs. Bacon, Jones, Platt, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, and Woods, who voted in the affirmative.

MR. VAN BUREN then offered the following amendment :

"Who (i. e. justices of the peace) shall be elected in the manner following, viz: That the board of supervisors in every county in this state, shall once in every years at such time as the legislature may direct, recommend to the governor a list of persons equal in number to the justices of the peace, and of all other county officers who are not directed to be elected immediately by the peo

ple, whose appointment is not otherwise provided for in this constitution; and the respective courts of common pleas of the said counties shall also recommend a list of the like number. And as often as any vacancies shall happen in the said offices, or either of them, the board of supervisors and court of common pleas in the counties in which such vocancies may happen, shall recommend lists of per. sons equal to the number of vacancies in such counties. And that it shall be the duty of the said board of supervisors, and court of common pleas, to compare such lists at such time and place as the legislature may direct; and if on such comparison, the said board of supervisors and court of common pleas shall be found to agree in all or in part, they shall file a certificate of such recommendation and agreement in the office of the clerk of the county; and the person or persons in whom they shall agree shall by such agreement be appointed to the office for which he was so recommended, and in case of disagreement in whole or in part, it shall be the further duty of the said boards of supervisors, and courts of common pleas respectively, to transmit the said lists so far as they disagree in the same to the governor, whose duty it shall be to select from the said lists and appoint the said justices of the peace and other officers, and to commission the same accordingly.

That the said justices of the peace shall hold their said offices for and the other officers for the respective terms following, viz:

years,

And such of them as are appointed by the board of supervisors and courts of common pleas, shall be removable by the united votes of the said board and courts separately given; and those selected and commissioned by the governor may be removed by him on the application of those recommending them, stating the grounds why such removal is prayed for.”

MR. DUER proposed to amend the amendment of the gentleman from Otsego, (Mr. Van Buren,) by striking out all that part after the word, "following," and by inserting the following substitute;

"That is to say, the judges of the courts of common pleas, and the supervisors of each of the counties of this state, or a majority of the said judges and supervisors respectively, shall once in every years, severally assemble in their respective counties, at such time as the legislature shall direct, and each of the said judges and supervisors so assembled as aforesaid, shall openly nominate as many persons for justices of the peace in the several towns of their respective counties, as may be equal in number to the several justices of the peace to be appointed therein. The said judges and supervisors shall then meet together for the purpose of comparing their respective nominations, and the persons whose names shall be found on both lists shall be justices of the peace for the said counties respectively; and out of the persons whose names shall not be found on both lists, one half shall be chosen by the joint ballot of the said judges and supervisors, to supply the deficiency in the number of justices of the peace to be appointed."

The question being taken thereon, the same was lost.

MR. VAN VECHTEN then moved to amend the amendment of the honourable gentleman from Otsego, (Mr. Van Buren,) by inserting, after the word, “recommend," the words following:

"Appoint so many justices of the peace for each of the towns in such county, as the said towns may respectively be entitled to by law; and all other county officers who are not to be elected by the people, or whose appointment is not otherwise directed by this Convention; and shall certify a list of such appoint. ments to the first judge of the county, whose duty it shall be forthwith to issue a commission under his hand and the seal of the court of common pleas of the county, to the said justices, and other officers to be appointed as aforesaid :-And as often as any vacancies stall happen, the board of supervisors of the county in which such vacancies may happen, shall fill the same; and that the justices appointed for that purpose, shall be commissioned by the first judge in the manner aforesaid." Lost.

The question was then taken on Mr. Van Buren's amendment, by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES.-Messrs. Bacon, Baker, Barlow, Briggs, Brooks, D. Clark, Collins, Dubois, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Fish, Hallock, Hees, Hogeboom, Hunter, Huntington, Hurd, Jay, Jones, Kent, King, Lefferts, M'Call, Moore, Paulding, Platt, Porter, Radcliff, Rhinelander, Rose, Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Seeley, Sharpe, I. Smith, R. Smith, Spencer, Stagg, D. Southerland, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Ten Eyck, Townley, Van Fleet, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Ward, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, E. Williams, Woods, Woodward, Wooster-59.

AYES.-Messrs. Beckwith, Birdseye, Bowman, Breese, Brinkerhoff, Buel, Burroughs, Carpenter, Carver, Case, Child, R. Clarke, Clyde, Cramer, Day, Eastwood, Fairlie, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunting, Lansing, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, Munro, Nelson, Pitcher, President, Price, Pumpelly, Reeve, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Ross, Russell, Schenck, Seaman, Sheldon, Starkweather, Steele, Swift, Taylor, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van Horne, A. Webster, N. Williams, Yates, Young.-56. COL. YOUNG moved to reconsider the motion of the honourable member from Orange, (Mr. Duer.) Carried.

A division was called upon the passage of the same, which was carried in the affirmative, as follows:

AYES.-Messrs. Baker, Beckwith, Birdseye, Bowman, Breese, Brinkerhoff, Brooks, Buel, Burroughs, Carpenter, Carver, Child, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Clyde, Cramer, Day, Dubois, Duer, Dyckman, Eastwood, Fairlie, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Jones, Kent, King, Lansing, A. Livingston, M'Call, Moore, Munro, Nelson, Park, Paulding, Pitcher, Porter, Price, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Reeve, Richards, Root, Rose, Ross, Russell, Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seaman, Seeley, Sharpe, Sheldon, 1. Smith, R. Smith, Spencer, Stagg, Starkweather, Steele, D. Southerland, Swift, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Taylor, Townley, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van Fleet, Van Horne, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Ward, A. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, Woods, Woodward, Yates, Young.-91.

NOES.-Messrs. Bacon, Barlow, Briggs, Collins, Edwards, Fish, Hallock, Hees, Hogeboom, Huntington, Hurd, Jay, Lefferts, P. R. Livingston, Platt, President, Rhinelander, Rockwell, Ten Eyck, Van Ness, E. Williams, N. Williams, Wooster.--23.

Whereupon, the question was taken upon the whole section as amended, and carried without a division.

The third section was next considered. This section provided for the ap pointment of the clerks of courts, and clerks of counties, by the courts of which they were clerks; and for the appointment of district attorneys by the courts of common pleas.

GEN. ROOT then moved to introduce the following, to come in before the third section, as it naturally preceded it in order.

"That sheriffs and county clerks shall be chosen by the electors of their re spective counties, once in every three years, and as often as vacancies shall hap pen. Sheriff's shall hold no other office, and be ineligible for the next three years after the termination of their offices respectively. They may be by law required to renew their security from time to time, and in default of giving such new se curity, their offices shall be deemed vacant."

GEN. ROOT remarked, that a great contrariety of sentiment had prevailed with regard to the expediency of electing sheriffs by the people. He should be opposed to it himself were the elections to be annual, and the sheriff to attend the polls with executions in his pocket, and deputies at his heels. But give him three years for the duration of his office, and make him ineligible for the next three years; so that he may not suspend the collection of debts with a view to his re-election. In this way the correct and faithful discharge of his duties would be secured, and an important office restored to the people. His propo sition was calculated to give to the people some of the wheat-not the chaff only.

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