the western borders of our state, and some who stop in the county where I're side.

The number to be affected by this provision cannot be correctly ascertained, but it is without doubt very considerable. As to the number in New-York, I will leave it for those who represent that city to determine-And in this city, how many young men are there on this day marching under the banner of their country, who will be for years deprived of the right of suffrage, but for the amendment which I now offer! Who are these young men who are serving in your militia? They are young men whose patriotic bosoms burn with a love country; and will they vote from the dictation of the petty lordlings of the day? No; they will vote for the good of their country, which they are now preparing to defend they will not vote for peace party men, but for men that are willing to bare their breasts to the arms of the enemy. These are the young men that I want to bring to the polls of our election-Young men that will vote for the man that will lead them in the hour of danger to the field of battle. Yes, men that, when a restless mob shall excite commotion, will willingly be led forward to suppress the insurrection-friends of order and of law, but not of aristocracy. Not one out of ten of these young militiamen would vote for a haughty, proud, and domineering aristocrat--they will vote for republicans. MR. BRIGGS said he hoped the Convention would do right.

MR. WHEELER remarked that he had heard a sombre picture of the depravi ty of our cities, and he was now happy to learn that their moral condition was improving. Being satisfied that the alarms excited the other day respecting that diseased population were unfounded, he should vote for the amendment. The question was then taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the affirmative, as follows:

AYES-Messrs. Barlow, Beckwith, Birdseye, Brinkerhoff, Bnel, Burroughs, Carpenter, Carver, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Clyde, Collins, Day, Dodge, Dubois, Eastwood, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Hallock, Hogeboom, Howe. Humphrey, Hunt, Hunting, Hurd, Lefferts, A. Livingston, M'Call, Moore, Nelson, Park, Pike, President, Price, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Richards, Root, Ross, Russell, Sage, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seaman, Seeley, Sharpe, Sheldon, I. Smith, Starkweather, Steele, D. Southerland, Swift, Tallmadge, Taylor, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van Fleet, Ward, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheeler, Young-67.

NOES-Messrs. Bacon, Bowman, Briggs, Child, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Fairlie, Fish, Hees, Huntington, Jay, Jones, Kent, King, Lansing, Lawrence, Munro, Paulding, Platt, Rhinelander, Rose, R. Smith, Spencer, Stagg, Sylves ter, Van Horne, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Wheaton, E. Williams, Woods, Woodward-34.

GEN. J. R. VAN RENSSELAER then introduced his amendment, as stated above, and supported the same at length.

The object he said, of the proposed amendment, is to require that the elec tors should possess some small portion of property, which is to be subject to contribution for the support of government, and to exclude from a participa tion in its administration that portion of citizens of this community, who feel no interest in its welfare, and who do not afford it any aid. There is in every community, a portion of idle, profligate, and abandoned men; and it is unjust and impolitic, that this description of people should have it in their pow er to control the government and the property of the industrious, the virtuous, and moral part of the community. The object of all good governments, is the protection of life, liberty, and property. The two first, are always safe, under a government of laws, because no laws can be passed which shall operate partially as to them. All will be protected or injured alike by any general provision; but the introduction of universal suffrage, would operate unequally as it regards the latter object, because it would afford to him who possesses no property, who has none to be affected by any law which may be enacted, as much political power as the freeholder or farmer who contributes from ten to fifty dollars per year towards its support. The farmers and mechanics who own portions of property procured by the practice of all the moral virtues, are uni

formly and constantly bound to afford support and protection, in peace and in war, to your government-in times of peace by contributions in money, and in war by their personal services also; while the first description of persons never afford either. Whenever their situation can be improved, they emigrate to some other state, or evade the operation of your laws: as mere mercenaries they sometimes enter your armies and fight your battles, but seldom, if ever, from any higher motive than the mere pecuniary consideration they receiveWhile the farmer, whose property is always visible, always bound to contribute according to the value, to the support of government, is fastened to the soil almost as much as the oak, whose roots have penetrated it--and in the proportion as the measures of your administration are bad and injurious, the more is his difficulty of escaping their effects increased. The effect and operation of this widely extended suffrage, would be but partially felt, were the whole population of the state composed of farmers and ordinary mechanics, as the influence of the parent would be exercised over the son, and all would feel an immediate interest in the prosperity, and welfare of their country. But the case of this state is wisely different from this. Already have we in the city of NewYork, about one tenth of the whole population of the state. And the argument that because this relative proportion has been maintained for the last thirty years, it will be continued through all time, is altogether fallacious and erroneous. At that period, the foot of the white man had scarcely trodden the soil more than thirty or forty miles west of the Hudson, except on the banks of the Mohawk, and in a very few small settlements in its vicinity. The western parts of this state, vast in extent, and fertile almost without a parallel, has within that period been settled by emigrants from New-England, from other sections of the union, and from Europe; and that portion of the state, then a wilderness, now contains one half of its present population. That district of country is already so much peopled, that its relative progressive increase must necessarily diminish, while that of the cities, towns, and villages, must as certainly increase. And, it is not indulging too much in prophecy to state with confidence, that these within half a century, will contain a full moiety of our whole population. The growth of a commercial city must always depend beyond its foreign commerce, upon the country with which it is connected in the purchase of its products and the sale of foreign commodities. New-York now enjoys a greater portion of the foreign commerce of the United States, than any other city of the union. Its coastwise commerce is constantly increasing. It is emphatically the ware-house of the union. Formerly its internal commerce was confined to portions of the adjoining states, and that part of our own which borders on the Hudson. Already, by means of the northern canal is that commerce extended to the whole of Vermont, and a portion of the Canadas; and whenever a water communication shall be opened between Lake Champlain and the St. Lawrence, all the business of Quebec will be transferred to NewYork,except only the direct intercourse between the former and the West India

Islands.

But, great as is, and will be the accession of business and of wealth, from these sources, they dwindle into perfect insignificance, and are scarcely worth noticing, when compared with the effects which will be produced by a completion of the western canal. There a direct communication will be opened with Ohio, part of Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, and all the upper part of the province of Upper Canada, and her increase will be proportioned, not the population of this state alone, but in a great degree to the whole of that territory, which, in all probability, and in the course of human events, will in little more than half a century, contain from 12 to 15,000,000 of souls.

The population of the city of New-York, compared with the old settled parts of the state, has, within the last seven years, been in the proportion of seven to four, or nearly two to one; and the effect of allowing every male citizen of twenty-one years of age to vote, by the introduction of universal suffrage, will be to increase her relative political importance in the ratio of about six to one. In the year 1814, the whole freehold population of the southera district of this state, comprising the counties of Suffolk, Queens, Kings, Richmond, New-York, Westchester, Putnam, and Rockland, amounted to 16,936. of which 13,795

were in the country counties; and 3141 in the city of New-York, being in favour of the country as four to one. The whole free male adult population, amounted to 45,542, of which 27,542 were in the country, and about 18,000 in the city-and the total population was 236,557-141,038 in the country, and 95,519 in the city; leaving a balance in favour of the country of 45,519. In 1820, the total population of the same district was 296,177. The country 162,471, and New-York 123,706-difference 38,765. The whole male population over twenty-one years, about 58,782-of which about 31,782 are in the country, and about 27,000 in the city-while the country part of that district has increased in the ratio of about one to seven. New-York has increased as one to four, and were the enquiry carried to every portion of the old settled part of the state, the same result would appear; and hence the manifest injustice of establishing any rule which will produce so material and so manifest a disproportioned increase of political power.

Permit me to ask, sir, whether the fear that with the provisions contained in the article under consideration, in times of strong party excitement, men may be found who will extend the right of suffrage to this vast mass of combustible matter in the city of New-York, is altogether chimerical? We have heard a gentleman holding a high and dignified station in this country, openly on the floor of this assembly, avow, that during the seventeen years he was a member of the council of revision, and governor, (alluding to the president of Convention) he was actuated by party motives and considerations in the discharge of his official duties, and can we then doubt that men of less consideration, and in more humble walks of life, will be influenced by like motives and considerations? [Here the President interrupted Mr. V. R. and denied having said that he ever in the discharge of his official duties, was governed or influenced by party motives, or considerations--but that as he was subject to the frailties and infirmities of human nature, he might unconsciously have been under their influence.] Mr. V. Rensselaer said, that if the President had beard him out, he would have discovered that he did not intend to impute to him corrupt motives.

His argument would be strengthened by admitting, that, acting under the influence of these considerations, he still felt himself honest-still retained the approbation of his own conscience. Cases had frequently occurred when honest men, in the discharge of their public duties, considered themselves bound to subserve the party views of the day, as the means necessary for the protection and promotion of the best interests of their country; and he would only mention one case, which had been referred to in debate. He alluded to the late war, when the dominancy of the republican party was, by that gentleman, deemed essential to the salvation of his country; and he would, therefore, of course, do every thing in his power to preserve the ascendancy of that party. The time may, therefore, and probably will arrive, when party assessors will place on the tax lists that population which possesses neither property, independence, virtue, nor political integrity, merely to subserve the views of party; that kind of population, thus formed and condensed, always has been, and ever will be. under the control and the influence of the artful, the cunning, the aspiring, and ambitious demagogue.

The experience of all countries has proved, that as cities grow in numbers, and in wealth, and luxury, as population becomes dense, and the difficulty of procuring the means of subsistence, increases,does the proportion of the poor, the wretched, and the vicious, compared with their opposites, also increase; and it would be unwise in us to calculate on a different course of things here. It is certain, that while the city of New-York contains in a certain portion of her citizens as much virtue and more wealth, more talent, more refinement, and literary acquirements, than any other part of the state of equal numbers; she also contains a greater portion of ignorance, wretchedness, misery, and vice. All great cities are places of refuge for the idle and vicious. They are there more effectually screened from detection in their favourite pursuits than elsewhere. This state is destined by nature to be great in her commercial and manufacturing interests. As the latter increase, so also will increase the number of those dependant on their employers.

It has been observed, that property will always retain its influence, and that

1

The wealth of the manufacturer will be as much a subject of solicitude, and of protection, as that of the farmer. It is this influence of property which I dread, as the source of great evil to the state. The distribution of property in small portions among the citizens generally, and the uniform and equal influence of property thus distributed, is the very basis upon which our republican institutions rest. Its possessors are moral in their habits, moderate in their desires, free from personal ambition, and a desire of political elevation. In humble and persevering industry, they endeavour to provide for the support of their families and government, and are alike incapable and unfitted for political intrigue or combinations. Suppose a manufactory established, with a capital of $100,000,-it is probably fair to presume, that each $1000 will give employ to one man, each of whom constantly and uniformly dependant for his subsistence on the owner of the establishment, soon looses all independence of mind, and yields himself to the views, the wishes, and desires of the individual from whom he receives his bread. This property then becomes in reality the representative of one hundred and one votes, and then suppose twenty farmers in the vicinity, each worth in real and personal property $5000, and that each has one man constantly and habitually dependant on him, and suppose, further, that they all entertain the same views hostile to the manufacturer-they possess only two-fifths of the political power and influence of the manufacturer, and thus it will appear, that it will require a combination of fifty such farmers, to meet and paralize his views and efforts. Sir, no government, embracing considerable extent of territory, with a numerous and dense population, ever enjoyed the blessings of government with universal suffrage. The property of the rich has always been, and always will be, an object of desire on the part of the poor, and whenever they possess the power they will gratify their desires by its distribution. We have been told, that the governments of France and Great Britain, containing vastly greater portions of the idle, the vicious, and the profigate, than ours, are able to protect property, to suppress insurrections, and keep the mob in awe; and hence it is inferred, that those governments might safely intrust the whole people with political power. But the proper inference is precisely the reverse. Were either of those governments to extend the right of suffrage to all her subjects and make it universal, rely upon it, a very short period of time would only elapse, before they would be possessed of the sword and the purse of the nation, and their power would be used for the destruction, not the preservation, of those rights deemed essential to public and private prosperity, and happiness. A gentleman from Dutchess, (Mr, Livingston) has informed you that at the commencement of the French revolution, two-thirds of the property of that nation was in the possession of the nobility and clergy, that that revolution, by procuring the confiscation of all that property, and its distribution among those who previously had none, was one of the most fortunate events-one of the greatest political blessings which ever visited any nation. That revolution was produced by violent commotion and blood-by an hostile array of power against law and government. Can any man doubt, that if that mob, which violated all law, and the dictates of humanity-which bathed their hands in pure, in virtuous, and innocent blood for the attainment of their object--would not under the form of law---if they had possessed the reins of government, have produced the same result. And can any one, at all experienced in the knowledge of man, believe, that the same causes will not produce the same effects here, as in Europe. Man has been, and probably always will be, subject to the same passions and feelings; and, under like circumstances, the future will strongly resemble the past. And it is, therefore, the province of prudence and of wisdom, by some slight property qualification for electors, to exclude those from a participation in the political power of this government, who have nothing to lose by the enactment of bad laws, and who inay feel perhaps too strong a desire to violate private rights for the gratification of their cupidity.

MR. BRIGGS. We have come to universal suffrage, sir, and I want we should fix it in the face of the instrument, sir. Gentlemen wish to get away from it, they endeavour to evade it, sir. This distinction will help to weaken the breach. When we get to have such a population, as the gentlemen have de

scribed, our constitution will be good for nothing, sir. We must carry the strong arm of the law to the cradle, sir, and let the rising generation know that we have established the principle of universal suffrage, sir, that they may prepare themselves accordingly, and qualify themselves to live under it, sir.

MR. FAIRLIE was not in favour of universal suffrage, but he thought the committee had gone so far, that it was hardly worth while to attempt to save the remnant. He had been greatly edified by the excellent discourse of the gentleman from Columbia (Mr. Van Rensselaer) although he feared the gentleman had mistaken the brief he intended to use, as his observations appeared to apply to a question that had been fully settled several days ago.

The city of New-York he thought was not quite so bad as the gentleman represented. As it was larger than other places, so it contained more vice, in the same proportion. In like manner, it was probable that the city of Hudson contained more vice than the village of Kinderhook.

GEN. ROOT wished to know the views of the mover in relation to filling the blank.

GEN. VAN RENSSELAER proposed to fill it with the sum of fifty dollars.

COL. YOUNG opposed the motion. He observed that when our present constitution was formed, the mass of real estate in this state was much more unequally divided than at present. These subdivisions continue to increase. Was it expedient, then, to admit the man to vote who possesses $50 worth of property, and to refuse the man who has only $49? He thought that property was not a correct standard for the limitation of the right of suffrage.

After further observations on the subject, by Messrs. Van Buren, Fairlie, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Sharpe, and Starkweather, the question was put and

lost.

MR. BIRDSEYE then moved to amend the first line of the section, by inserting after the word "every," the word "free." Lost.

MR. BRIGGS moved to amend in the same place, by inserting the word "white." He said that it had been substantially decided by the Convention, that property was not the standard of qualification for a vote. Of course it ought not to be so, with respect to the blacks, any more than the whites. He was therefore opposed to the proviso, and wished to insert this provision in its stead.

COL. YOUNG was in favour of the motion.

CHANCELLOR KENT was opposed to the motion of the gentleman from Scho harie, and in favour of the proviso reported by the committee. He had already expressed his sentiments on this subject, and he should not trouble the committee with a repetition of them. It was true, that the blacks were in some respects a degraded portion of the community, but he was unwilling to see them disfranchised, and the door eternally barred against them. The proviso would not cut them off from all hope, and might in some degree alleviate the wrongs we had done them. It would have a tendency to make them industrious and frugal, with the prospect of participating in the right of suffrage.

MR. VAN BUREN was in favour of the plan proposed by the select committee, and opposed to the amendment.

MR. SHARPE remarked that the report of the select committee proposed to make the blacks a privileged order, inasmuch as they were not liable to pay taxes, in certain cases, and were exempted from the performance of jury and military service. It was, therefore, but fair that some privileges should be withheld as an equivalent for these exemptions.

MR. BRIGGS wished to make the constitution consistent in all its parts. The black man was a degraded member of society, and would, therefore, be always ready to sell his vote; nor would real estate make him a better man. The whites can never take them to their bosoms.

GEN. TALLMADGE was opposed to the motion. He was prepared to vote for the proviso which the committee had reported, because he considered it as a compromise of conflicting opinions. He also thought it held out inducements to that unfortunate class of our population to become industrious and valuable members of the community.

MR. JAY said, this subject had already been fully discussed, and once dis