doar, moderation, and good sense; but on this occasion, his statement of the objections to the interference of the county courts, and which he endeavoured to surmount, would have been sufficient to have satisfied him, if he had been in doubt before, of the impropriety of calling these courts into political action. The judiciary ought not to be charged with political duties. They should not be distracted or affected in duty or in character by such a concern. The county courts were to be charged by the amendment with a censorial power over the conduct of the justices, and appeals lay to them from their decisions in civil cases. They were therefore an improper body to be concerned in the appointment of justices.

The supervisors were also to form a list for the governor. He should be willing to trust the sole power to them, if no nearer approach to the people themselves in their respective towns, could be admitted. He voted yesterday for electing justices in each town by the people. He thought it upon the whole the most expedient course, and he apprehended the people were as competent to elect discreetly their local magistrates, as the general officers of the state, because it required that minute local knowledge which they alone possessed. It had been the ancient usage in England, as had been observed by the gentleman from Queens, (Mr. King.) It continued to the reign of Edward II. : and Lord Coke referred to it with visible pride, as evidence of the popular genius of the ancient English constitution. He did not recollect that the exercise of that right had been complained of, though the election of sheriffs was stated by the old writers to have been tumultuous. In the city of New-York, the aldermen had always been elected, and well elected, by the people; and they had formerly great civil and criminal jurisdiction : they acted, until 1798, or thereabouts, as police magistrates, and as efficient judges of the mayor's courts. But as that point had been decided by the vote of yesterday, against elections by the people, he would be inclined to prefer the mode approaching the nearest to it, and to adopt the proposition of the gentleman from Westches ter, (Mr. Jay,) that the supervisor, assessors, and town clerk in each town, should form the list, or else the supervisors themselves. His great object (and it was one that seemed now to meet the decided sense of the house) was to rêmove all efficient concern in these local appointments from the seat of govern ment, and to disperse the power among the counties.

MR. STARKWEATHER. Mr. Chairman-Sir, the principle cause of complaint, by the great body of the yeomanry, against the present council of appointment, has not specifically been mentioned by any gentleman of the committee. It is not because the person appointed, happens to be of different political principles; nor because members of the legislature interfere with the council, and mingle their official duties with political considerations; but because bad men are sometimes appointed, who are in fact a terror to those who do well. The charity and good feeling of the farmers induce them to believe, that the respectable council did not know their private characters; conse quently, the electors say, bring the appointments to the people. Sir, by this they do not mean to bring the appointments directly to the ballot boxes; they do not want additional confusion and turmoil there. But, sir, they want a selection made, where the characters of the candidates are known; and if the selection is made by the board of supervisors, and judges of the county court, they must know the character of every man they recommend, and they dare not recommend a bad man-the ghost of public clamour would haunt them in their dreams; and by this mode of selection the people would be safe: it is the best plan that has been suggested, and I shall vote for it. But, sir, let us for one moment consider the plan of an election. It is a fact, that immoral men can bring more votes to the poll, than any moral, good men; and if they are not directly the candidates, they will have their friend for a candidate, and by using their influence, and rallying their satellites, will lay him under obligations to favour them in his official capacity: consequently, a remedy for the evil would not be found here. The gentleman from New-York is opposed to the amendment, because it gives to the executive the appointing power, who is not responsible for the appointments. Sir, I am in favour of giving this power to the executive, because we ask no responsibility from him. He cannot do

wrong, unless he travels out of the two lists of candidates; and this he cannot do, by the amendment proposed. Sir, it has been urged, that no possible good could arise from having the governor appoint and commission the justices of the peace. In answer to this, as the executive is commander-in-chief of the militia, and whose official duty is to see that the laws are faithfully executed, it is highly proper that every commissioned officer should receive his authority from the chief magistrate, and to whom he should be accountable for the faithful performance of his duty.

The question on the amendment offered by Mr. Van Buren, was then taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES.-Messrs. Bacon, Baker, Bowman, Briggs, Brooks, Carpenter, Collins, Duer, Edwards, Fish, Hallock. Hees, Hogeboom, Huntington, Hurd, Jay, Jones, Kent, King, Lefferts, A. Livingston, M Call, Millikin, Moore, Paulding, Platt, Porter, Price, Radcliff, Rhinelander, Rose, Rosebrugh, Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Seeley, Sharpe, I. Smith, R. Smith, Spencer, Stagg, D. Southerland, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Townley, Van Fleet, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Ward, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, E. Williams, Woods, Woodward—58.

AYES-Messrs. Barlow, Beckwith, Birdseye, Breese, Brinkerhoff, Buel, Burroughs, Carver, Case, Child, R. Clarke, Clyde, Cramer, Day, Dodge, Dubois, Dyckman, Eastwood, Fairlie, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Lansing, Munro, Nelson, Pike, Park, Pitcher, President, Pampelly, Reeve, Richards, Root, Ross, Russell, Schenck, Sheldon, Starkweather, Steele, I. Sutherland, Swift, Taylor, Townsend, Tuttle, Tripp, Van Buren, Van Horne, Wheeler, N. Williams, Yates, Young-56.

On motion of COL. YOUNG, the committee then rose, reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again.

THE ELECTIVE FRANCHISE.

The Convention then went into committee of the whole, on the report of the select committee of thirteen, relatíve to the right of suffrage-MR. N. WILLIAMS in the chair.

The report made yesterday, by Mr. Young, being under consideration,

MR. BUEL. moved to amend the section, by inserting after the word “assessed," the words "upon his real or personal estate," so as to preclude any recurrence of the question whether labour on the highways should be considered a tax. Carried.

MR. WENDOVER moved further to amend, by erasing the words "the year," in the sixth line, and inserting in lieu thereof the words "two years." He said such a provision would be desirable, particularly in the city of New-York, where there were frequent removals from one ward to another. The question was taken thereupon, and lost.

GEN. ROOT and COL. YOUNG were respectively about to submit further amendments, when the usual hour of adjournment having arrived, the committce rose, reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again.

Leave was granted to Mr. JAY, to move a reconsideration of the vote taken yesterday, on the question of electing justices of the peace by the people, at a future day, when the consideration of the subject relative to the appointing power, should be resumed in committee of the whole. Adjourned.

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 6, 1821.

The Convention assembled as usual, and after prayers by the Rev. Mr. LACEY, the journals of yesterday were read and approved.

THE ELECTIVE FRANCHISE.

On motion of Mr. EASTWOOD, the Convention resolved itself into a committee of the whole on the unfinished business of yesterday, (the reports on the right of suffrage,) Mr. N. Williams in the chair.

The chairman stated the question for consideration, to be upon the first part of the report of the committee (of thirteen) of which the honourable Mr. Young was chairman.

After a question of order had been disposed of,

COL. YOUNG moved to erase the words his real and personal property,' and to insert the word him.'

MR. BURROUGHS objected, on the ground that it would authorize the legislature to extend universal suffrage. They would rip up the proceedings of the Convention by a single act.

The question was taken and lost.

MR. NELSON moved to amend, by striking out the words and shall have been within the year next preceding assessed upon his real or personal property, and shall have actually paid a tax to the state or county,' and to insert in lieu thereof the words, and shall have paid a tax to the state or county within the year next preceding the election, assessed upon his real or personal property.' Carried.

CHIEF JUSTICE SPENCER moved to insert the word 'specially,' after the words by law.' to render the provision more explicit. Lost.

MR. BIRDSEYE moved to strike out the words" or shall be by law exempted from taxation," he disliked the principle, it was opening a door for favouritism, and for unjust and odious distinctions. If it should be thought proper to encourage any particular business or calling as useful to the public, it ought to be done by other means than by exemption from taxation.

COL. YOUNG was opposed to striking out-it amounted to nothing more than leaving with the legislature the power to exempt from taxation such persons as they should think proper, and would conduce to the public good The clergy, he said, were debarred from holding any office, and it was but reasonable that they should have some privileges granted them. The legislature had exempted those serving in artillery companies from taxation; this had been to encourage that service, because it was supposed the public interest would be promoted by it: So also with regard to inanufactories-it might be thought expedient for the purpose of encouraging some of them, to exempt the capital employed from taxation.

MR. BUEL advocated the striking out: his objection to retaining these words was, that it would require a recurrence to oaths, to ascertain who were, or who were not, within the exemption; and his object would be, to do away all necessity for oaths to determine the qualifications of electors.

MR. BURROUGHS said, the object of the committee was to leave the clergy the same privileges which they had heretofore enjoyed; he did not know that any difficulty had arisen from their exemption from taxation heretofore-it contributed in some degree to aid the congregations to support their preachers. MR. Ross enquired whether there was not some discrepancy between this, and the proviso at the end of the section?

GEN. ROOT said there were three special exemptions by law from taxationthe clergy to the amount of $1,500 were excused from paying taxes. Whenever he had thought of that law, he had thought it unwise, because it was unequal in its operation, and unequal as it respects the relative rights and duties of his fellow citizens. He said any class, however honourable or respectable, being exempted from taxation, would have a tendency to bring about a state of things not very desirable-that of a distinction between citizens. It was, therefore odious, and calculated, by its pernicious exa make greater distinctions.

Many clergymen will derive no benefit from this provision. There are ma ny whom our assessors, with all their squirming and quibbling, cannot bring within the limits of this exemption. Many of the humble disciples of John Wesley, itinerating the country, will claim no benefit from this exemption; and others too, in humble stations among the clergy, have no property liable to taxation, depending on an annual stipend from their parishioners. He boped the constitution would be so formed as to lead the legislature to abolish

that law.

There was another exemption, of which the honourable president of the Convention had spoken: he alluded to the artillery companies of New-York, who are exempted from taxation, from the circumstance of their having to train oftener than other militia. He would not permit them to vote because they were exempted from taxation, but because they buckle on their armour to fight the battles of their country.

There was another portion of the community exempted from taxation, because they were engaged in manufacturing establishments, which were considered a public benefit; and he called on the chancellor to vote in favour of his proposition: (as he had a few days before, said that these establishments were the seats of corruption, and could bring to the poles of an election an hundred votes at the will of their master) he was aware that a gentleman entertaining such sentiments would vote with him.

The notion was farther supported by the mover, and opposed by Mr. Buel. MR. BRIGGS remarked, that he was opposed to exclusive privileges, whether to the manufacturers or the clergy. If the latter are exempted, why should not deacons be exempted too? They are good men. And why not exempt the carpenter also, who builds the church, and the printer who prints bibles and psalm books? Where should the line be drawn? He wished to shackle the legislature, and prevent them from enacting such laws.

COL. YOUNG hoped the Convention would not descend to legislate upon eve ry little nice point; it would not do to fix any thing but first principles.

The gentlemen from Delaware and Onondaga (Messrs. Root and Birdseye) had expressed great fears that these exemptions would not operate equally. We cannot have any tax distributed equally. With respect to our school fund, is it not the case in every town, that for this fund, money is collected by taxa tion from wealthy individuals who have no children, to educate other men's children, who otherwise must remain in ignorance? Still, this is a salutary provision. If the exemption of clergymen is productive of public good, by improving the morals, why not sanction it?

During the war it was thought proper to extend patronage to the manufac turers of certain articles, for which we had before thought proper to send our money to Europe. He considered this right and politic. He could not unite ju opinion with those gentlemen who had spoken of these manufacturing esta Elishments as being the seats of vice and corruption; for in many of these es tablishments much attention had been paid to improving the morals by the aid of Sunday schools, &c. and many children had been learnt to read and write, who otherwise must have remained in ignorance and poverty, without such opportunity.

To pretend to shackle the legislature by constitutional embarrassments was rugatory and unavailing. If we prohibit the legislature from exempting them from taxation, they will legislate to give them money which will be equivalent. Our endeavouring to hedge in the legislature, will not answer the purpose; they will get round it some way. He hoped they should not strike out the words.

MR. BRIGGS said, if they could not infuse any thing into the constitution which would compel the legislature to make taxation equal, he would by all reans avoid doing that which would encourage them to render it unequal.--He was of the opinion that something might be with propriety done to equalize. The gentleman from Saratoga had tried to get off, by referring to the inequality with which the school-tax was levied; but this was a subject in which the dearest interests of the community were embarked; education was the very soul of all our republican institutions; and he hoped that patronage might be extended for the promotion of education, till the public mind was raised from its present dejected situation. The question was taken on striking out. Lost.

GEN. ROOT said, that when he heard the drum beat this morning, the Albany regiment and a battalion of riflemen were then forming near the capitol for review: it reminded him of his motion yesterday; he therefore moved to insert after the word "taxation," in the 9th line, the following words, "or being armed and equipped according to law, shall have performed within that year military duty in the militia of this state."

GEN. J. R. VAN RENSSELAER said, if the gentleman from Delaware would consent to wait a moment, he would offer an amendment which he then held in his hand.

GEN. ROOT. What is it?

GEN. VAN RENSSELAER. As follows: after the word "assessed," insert the words, " upon real or personal estate to an amount not less than lars."

MR. ROOT. Oh! I can't wait for that-it will certainly be rejected.

dol

MR. ROOT, in support of his motion, remarked, that young men coming of age after the assessment came out, and before October, would not be provided for by the other provisions of the report, until they were more than twenty-two years of age.

There was another exception with respect to those who ought to vote--such as enigrated from New-England or elsewhere. They must remain three years, unless they have been put upon the assessment roll, even though they had performed militia duty, which was in itself a very heavy tax upon a poor man.

MR. SHARPE said, he had voted for the militia qualification on a former occasion, and he should do so again. Without this qualification the operation of the system would be unequal, there were very many worthy citizens in the city of New-York, who would not come within any of the other qualifications.

The militia of that city, he said, were not of the degraded character, that some gentlemen seemed to suppose; a very great proportion of them were young men of great respectability; merchants' clerks, and mechanics-they were not taxed--and in that city they had no highway tax. And they would all therefore be excluded from voting, if this amendment did not prevail.

COL. YOUNG was not alarmed by any fear of permitting those to vote who performed military duty but he thought the instances would not be more than one hundred annually in the state who would not come within the other provisions contemplated by the report.

MR. FAIRLIE wished that the order of the question might be reversed. He was opposed to the principle of allowing the performance of highway labour as a qualification to vote; but if that should be so decided, he should be prepared to extend that privilege to the militia.

MR. RADCLIFF was opposed to the motion, and hoped that the military and highway qualifications would both be expunged.

GEN. ROOT was of the opinion that the honourable chairman of the select committee, (Mr. Young) could not have made much calculation, when he said that not more than a hundred or two would be affected by this provision. From an estimate which he had made, knowing the number of voters in the state would be from two to three hundred thousand, he found that there would annually come of age about four thousand, and within the first six months after the tax list was made out, about two thousand, who would, without this provision, be excluded from a participation in the right of suffrage, because they had not paid taxes. By my proposition, should it be adopted, they will, in consideration of having done military service from the age of eighteen to twenty-one, be entitled to come forward at the polls of your election. These too are young men who have not become so proud and haughty as to disdain going out to the parade; they can associate with their fellow young men, and feel a pride and dignity in the high station of militiamen. Exertions are now making to deprive two thousand young men in this way from this inestimable privilege, as well as great numbers of the sons of emigrants. But, says the gentleman from Saratoga, the number of emigrants to this state now is very small; they all pass through our state to others in the west. I know they do not emigrate to Saratoga; but there are vast numbers who emigrate to the western states, and return to settle in