Q. From the nature of them would you know whether or not they were similar warrants to the one that was shown to you awhile ago?— A. I could not tell unless by comparing them.

Q. Can you find us the warrant that covers in the gross amount of the permanent indefinite appropriations to the 30th of June, 1870?—A. I cannot.

By Mr. DAWES:

Q. When did you come into the custody of these warrants?—A. I think it was a little more than two years ago.

Q. Have you any other business with them except to keep the warrants as a custodian ?-A. I have not.

Q. Have you any knowledge of their contents?-A. I have not.

Q. I have one here which bears the number 919, and bears the date of the 30th of June, 1869. This was received from you as its custodian, wasit not?-A. It was.

Q. Upon this is the memorandum, "Reg'd August 18, 1869, H. M. G.” Can you state what that means?-A. I cannot tell certainly what that means; I never inquired what it meant; I never had any knowledge of it any more than I inferred from the reading; "Reg'd" appears to stand for "Registered August 10, 1869." Whether it was registered, or how it was registered, I know nothing of.

Q. But from that, would you infer that it was registered somewhere? -A. I should suppose it was.

Q. In another place I see "Posted 30 June, 1869," with initials "F. K." You do not know from your personal knowledge what that means, do you?—A. I do not.

Q. But from that you would infer that it was posted somewhere?—A. In like manner I should suppose that there had been another entry made of that warrant in a book.

Q. Do you understand that there are duplicates or triplicates of all warrants issued?-A. I understand that there were from a certain time. I am unable to tell that time now, duplicates or triplicates.

Q. What was done with the duplicate or triplicate?-A. If my recollection serves me aright the duplicate is held by the Comptroller, and the triplicate by the office in whose favor the warrant is made.

Q. Have you been asked by any one to search for a register of warrant 895 of June 30, 1868, and the other one on memorandum?-A. I have not. Q. Or for any place where they were posted?-A. I have not.

Q. Have you been asked by any one to see if there is a duplicate of either of these warrants with the Comptroller?—A. I have not.

Q. Or with the division or office in favor of which it was issued?—A. I have not.

Q. This warrant which I show to you is countersigned by the First Comptroller and by the Register, is it not?-A. It is.

Q. Have you inquired at either of those departments of the Treasury in reference to the warrants of June 30, 1868, and June 30, 1870 ?—A. I have.

Q. Did you find any trace of them in either of those places?-A. I did

not.

Q. Or a copy of them or what purports to be a copy of them ?—A. I did not.

Q. You have not inquired whether they have anything in those of fices?—A. I have not inquired about anything in reference to copies of those two warrants. I have inquired for the original warrants themselves.

Q. Which it was your business to keep?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. But they were not there?-A. They were not there.

Q. But whether they had duplicates or triplicates of them you did not inquire?-A. I did not.

Q. It was simply to find the particular original papers?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you make any inquiry in any quarter in the department to ascertain whether there is a record of either of these two warrants, and inform us?-A. I can.

The witness left the room, and after an absence of some time returned, when his examination was resumed as follows:

By Mr. DAWES:

Q. What have you ascertained in reference to duplicates and triplicates of those warrants to which your attention was called?-A. I have ascertained that there are duplicates of those warrants which are missing on file in the Warrant Division of the Secretary's office.

Q. Anywhere else?-A. I think not. warrants, which can be had at any time.

There is also a register of these

EUGENE B. DASKAM sworn and examined.

By Mr. INGALLS:

Question. You are the chief of the Division of Public Moneys in the office of the Secretary of the Treasury?-Answer. Yes, sir.

Q. State what record, if any, is kept in your office touching the moneys received for bonds of the United States.-A. Subscription to bonds, you mean.

Q. Yes, sir. Take a case where a person desires to purchase bonds of the United States, and makes a deposit with the Treasurer for that purpose?—A. Or at a national bank depository or with an assistant treasurer. We get a weekly statement, what is called a transcript of the Treasurer's general account. All moneys so deposited are deposited to the credit of the Treasurer of the United States subject to his check. We get a weekly transcript of the Treasurer's account with each bank and depository.

Q. From what source does that emanate?-A. From the assistant treasurer, if the money is deposited there; from the national bank depository if deposited there.

Q. What is done with that statement ?-A. We make a record on our books of all those receipts.

Q. What does that statement show specifically?-A. It shows the amount deposited, on what account deposited, and by whom deposited. Q. The name of each individual depositor?-A. Usually.

Q. The purpose for which deposited?-A. Yes, sir. Accompanying that transcript is usually a list of deposits showing the name of the depositor, on what account deposited, and the amount. We compare those lists, and they are forwarded to the warrant-room of our office for warrant covering them in.

Q. What record is kept of that list; is there a book account of it?— A. We have a book account of the entry, and we make up a list from that and check it, and when the warrant is issued the warrant comes back to our room, and we put the number of the warrant against the amount so deposited.

Q. In case a subscription is made for the purchase of a bond, is there a warrant issued in that office covering that subscription eventually?A. No; we do not issue any warrants. We prepare lists on which the warrants are issued.

Q. By whom is the warrant issued?-A. In the Warrant Room. Major Power has charge of it.

Q. In whose division is that?—A. Major Power's-Warrants and Appropriations.

Q. Then I understand you to say that in the case of every individual subscription for a bond accompanied by a deposit or payment of money there is in that division a warrant covering that specific amount, in addition to the other processes you have described?—A. Yes, sir; in the Warrant Room. In other words, the warrants are issued from that room. We do not issue warrants.

Q. State further to the committee what comparison is made between these statements that are received by you and the other transactions relative to these subscriptions in other branches of the Treasury.—A. I do not think I understand you.

Q. I desire to know whether these accounts of yours are compared with the accounts of the Loan Division, for instance ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. When?-A. Every list is checked both by the Loan Division and by the Division of Accounts of the Treasurer's Office before going to Mr. Power. I did not state that before. We first prepare the lists and they are sent to the Loan Division, are checked there, and then are sent to the Treasurer's office, Division of Accounts, and are checked there. They get those two checks on them before any warrants are issued. There is a check on the depository and the depositor, that is in the Loan Branch, for that particular work; they have the original certificate, and on all other accounts we have the original certificates of deposit also in our division, and one is a check against the other, but in loan matters the Division of Loans has the original certificate of deposit, and we send the list there for check.

Q. How long after the transaction closes in your office is the warrant issued in the division of Mr. Power?-A. There is no regular time.

Q. As a matter of experience in loan matters, particularly ?—A. I think they have been sometimes quite a long time, particularly during these heavy loan transactions; they could not get time up there to check them.

Q. What do you mean by "a long time"?—A. Perhaps a list has been up there a month or six weeks.

Q. Ever longer than that?-A. I do not know but they may have been longer.

Q. In the ordinary process of business when there is not the accumulation that arose from that emergency, what would be the period that would ordinarily elapse ?-A. They might come down the next day, or not more than two or three days off.

Q. How soon, then, in the ordinary course of business in case of any improper or fraudulent transaction in the Loan Division would the knowledge of the affair come to your office?-A. I do not see how any fraud could occur in the Loan Division from any transaction connected with the list. It is only on the list the warrant is issued. If the list does not come back there would not be any warrant issued; we should have to prepare a new list.

By Mr. WHYTE:

Q. After this money is deposited with an assistant treasurer or a de

pository bank, and is certified to your office by the transcript, then you prepare the list and send it to the Warrant Division ?-A. We first get those two checks, one from the Loan Division and the other from the Treasurer's Division of Accounts.

Q. After sending that transcript which you have received, either from the depository bank or the assistant treasurer- A. Excuse me; we do not send the transcript: it is the list we send which is made up from the transcript.

Q. After you get the transcript from the assistant treasurer's, or from the depository banks, then you make up a list. If it refers to loans, it is sent to the Loan Division. Then you send a list also to the Warrant Division?-A. The same list.

Q. After it has been checked by the Loan Division?—A. By the Loan Division and by the Treasurer's office. There are two checks.

Q. You then send it to the Warrant Division, and then a warrant issues to the Treasurer authorizing him to receive it. Is that the way?— A. No; that warrant is what is called technically covering the amount into the Treasury.

Q. But what is the object of that if it is not to be a check upon the Treasurer ?—A. That form goes away back to the Constitution; all moneys are covered into the Treasury by warrant.

Q. Exactly; but it is done after the transaction is over?-A. O, no. As a matter of fact the amount may be deposited for six months or a year and not be technically covered into the Treasury by warrant.

Q. So it is all done after the transaction has taken place, and not prior to it?-A. What is all done?

Q. All these issues of warrants. There is no check upon the Treasurer by the issue of these warrants at all; the transaction has taken place before the warrant is issued?-A. The Treasurer receipts on this same warrant; he acknowledges the receipt.

Q. But it is all after the transaction is over. He has received the money into the Treasury long before, as a general thing ?-A. It may be to his credit in San Francisco, or Charleston, or Saint Louis, or in the office here for months before it is technically covered into the Treasury by warrant.

Q. Then this warrant business is a mere matter of red tape; the thing all done before that?-A. I do not know that I understand what you is mean is not done.

Q. Before you authorize the Treasurer to receive the money he has long before received it to his credit-A. It goes to his credit the very minute it is deposited with the assistant treasurer.

Q. Goes to the credit of the Treasurer?-A. All public moneys go to the credit of the Treasurer.

Q. But where is the check upon him in the Warrant Division to show that, or that he received the money; and if the warrant is not issued after he receives it authorizing him to receive it, what check is there upon him in the Warrant Division?-A. That is too hard for me.

By Mr. BECK:

Q. Let me put a case to you. Suppose I wanted to buy four per cent. bonds to the amount of $10,000, could I not go directly to the Treasurer's office here in Washington, pay the money to him, get a certificate from him to that effect, and carry it to the Loan Division and get my bonds?— A. Yes.

Q. Without coming to you at all?-A. You need not come to our division at all.

Q. I can pay the Treasurer the money?-A. Deposit the amount in the cash-room of the Treasurer's office and get a certificate of deposit.

Q. Take it to the Loan Division and have an order from the Loan Division on the Register to issue me the bonds?-A. In due course of time you would get your bonds right on that.

Q. Without coming to your division at all?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. How soon after I deposited that $10,000 with the Treasurer would it be before he would inform you of the fact of that deposit ?-A. I should get the transcript the next day.

Q. Does he give it to you daily or weekly ?-A. Weekly.

Q. You might get it the next day, or, if I did it on Monday morning, you might get it the next Saturday?-A. Yes.

Q. So you would not necessarily get it the same day or the next day, but you would get it in the ordinary course of business the same week?A. Yes, sir. With some of the offices we have a daily transcript, and with some of the others weekly. I think we have it weekly from the Treasurer's office.

Q. So that, if I succeeded in getting my order for $10,000 of bonds, and the chief of the Loan Division should issue them for $20,000, it might be a week before you would get any papers that would be a check upon his issue, might it not?-A. Yes.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. Take the same transaction that Senator Beck has just spoken of, would you get the particular amount that Mr. Beck had deposited for his bond, or would it come to you in the transactions of the office in a lump; so much money received to-day?-A. We would not get the money at all, but the cash-book would show that Senator Beck, or whoever the depositor was, had deposited on t at particular day the sum of $10,000 on account of principal, and so much on account of interest of 4 per cent. bonds as subscription.

Q. What would you do with that?-A. At the end of the month, that, with lots of others, would be listed. It makes a list of several hundred, perhaps. We only cover in about once a month. At the end of the month we cover in from all the different offices. One list is prepared covering perhaps millions of dollars.

Q. What do you do with it?-A. We send it to the Loan Division to be checked. After it comes back it is sent to the Treasurer's to be checked, and after that it goes to the Warrant Room for the issuance of a warrant.

Q. It would go to the Loan Division to be checked?-A. By the subscription.

Q. To any other office?-A. None but the Loan Division and the Treasurer of the United States.

Q. Then, if the Loan Division checked it, that having been the divis ion that issued the bond, it would be all right?-A. Not unless the Treasurer also checked it. The Division of Accounts of the Treasurer's office would have to check it also.

Q. Before it comes to you?-A. Before it comes back to the Warrant Room for a warrant. The list is prepared in my division, is sent to the Loan Division for check, comes back again to my division, and I send it around to the Division of Accounts of the Treasurer's office, and it is also checked there. Every assistant treasurer sends a transcript both to the Secretary of the Treasury and to the Treasurer of the United States.

Q. It goes back to the Treasurer, and the Treasurer checks it if it is