JANUARY 4, 1879. WILLIAM WOODVILLE Sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What are the two statements now before you?-Answer. "A" and "F." "A" is a comparative statement of the differences in the statements of the outstanding public debt, and "F" is the same in another form. Q. Did you make up this Statement F from the Finance Reports?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Is it correct exactly from the Finance Reports?-A. These amounts are exactly taken from the Finance Reports, a true copy. By Mr. ALLISON: Q. Name the years.-A. 1870 and 1871. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. Were the figures which you have on Statement A taken from the Finance Reports?-A. They are statements furnished the committee compared with statements in the Finance Reports and then taken from the Finance Reports, running through all sorts of statements-the Secretary's statement and the Register's statement furnished the committee compared with the statements in the Finance Reports, and then the statements in the Finance Reports compared with each other. Q. Just read the headings of your statement.-A. "Exhibit of differences between statements furnished the committee and statements in Finance Reports, and of difference between statements in Finance Reports for the fiscal years 1860 to 1870, inclusive. 'A.' Prepared for the Senate Committee on Treasury Accounts." Q. Are the figures upon that statement exact copies from the Finance Reports and statements furnished you by the Treasury Department?— A. Yes, sir. By Mr. ALLISON: Q. What do you mean when you say "statements furnished by the Treasury Department"? Do you mean published statements or statements furnished specially?—A. Statements furnished specially to the committee by the Secretary and Register under call of the chairman. Q. Except those statements, all the other data are derived from the published reports?-A. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. Give the heading of Statement F.-A. "Statement of the public debt." The statements referred to by Mr. Woodville are as follows: STATEMENT F. PREPARED BY SENATE COMMITTEE ON TREASURY ACCOUNTS. Secretary's and Register's tabulated statements of the public debt for the fiscal years 1833 to 1870, inclusive. 67, 340, 628 78 47, 242, 206 0.7) $7, 001, 698 83 3, 573, 343 82 4,760, 081 08 351, 289 05 291, 089 05 1,878, 223 55 4,857, 660 46 11, 983, 737 53 5, 125, 077 63 6,737, 398 00 15, 028, 486 37 27, 203, 450 69 24,748, 188 23 17, 093, 794 80 16, 750, 926 33 38, 956, 623 3 48, 526, 379 37 64, 704, 693 71 64, 228, 238 37 62, 560, 395 26 65, 131, 692 13 $665 95 1. 00 45,868 78 1,429,900 52 5, 576, 560 68 125, 797 91 6,857, 082 73 5, 572, 739 91 5, 539, 471 31 5, 744, 400 76 8, 410, 393 71 130, 088 61 1,481, 517 14 1, 642, 835 02 $7, 001, 698 83 1833 4, 760, 082 08 1834 1, 286, 535 73 28, 699, 831 85 44, 911, 881 03. 58,496, 837 88 64, 842, 287 88 90, 380, 873 72 524, 176, 412 13. 1, 119, 772, 138 63 1, 815, 784, 370 57 2, 680, 647, 869 74 2,773, 236, 173 69 2,678, 126, 103 87 2,611, 687, 851 19 2, 588, 452, 213 94 2, 480, 672, 427 81, 39, 969, 731 05 1, 008, 628 26 9, 965, 040 21 20,978, 957 26 75, 093, 881 08 99, 449, 733 36 Total.. 20, 233, 160, 879 33 19, 985, 393, 537 67 332, 843, 895 54 85, 076, 553 88, 20, 233, 160, 879-3319, 985, 393, 537 67 7,537, 511 08 66, 199, 341 71 1832 1833 1854 1855 1856 WILLIAM P. TITCOMB Sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What position do you occupy in the Register's office?Answer. Assistant Register. Q. How long have you been Assistant Register?-A. Since July 1, 1876. Q. How long have you been in the Register's office, and what has been your occupation while you have been there?-A. Since August 27, 1864. My duties have been various. For six or eight years I was employed in the loan division; I was then appointed chief of the tonnage division; and on the 1st of July, 1875, I was appointed Deputy Register and continued in that office until my appointment to my present position, that of Assistant Register. Q. Will you tell us briefly what the duties of the Assistant Register are?-A. All duties devolved on me by the Register. I have supervision of the clerical force of the office, and assist the Register in the performance of his duties. Q. Do you act as Register in the absence of the Register?-A. Yes, sir; I act as Register in his absence. Q. Was Mr. Allison Register from 1869 to 1871 ?—A. He was. Q. When did he die?—A. On the 23d of March, 1878. Q. Did you act as Register until Judge Scofield was appointed ?—A. I did. Q. Do you know, between 1869 and 1871, of instructions from the office of the Secretary of the Treasury to change figures relating to the debt statement?-A. Yes, sir; I think the changes directed related to the public-debt statements. Q. Were the changes made by the Register willingly, or do you know whether they were under protest?A. The changes, as they affected the statements of former years, were, as I understand, protested against. I hardly know that I should state that there was a protest. It was, in the judgment of the late Register, unnecessary to make the changes. I know that Mr. Allison expressed the opinion officially to the Secretary that, in his judgment, it was not advisable to make any change in regard to the statements of former years under former administrations. By Mr. ALLISON : Q. Was this official advice of the Register to the Secretary in writing, do you remember, or was it simply an oral or verbal statement to you?A. It was a verbal statement. Q. In your presence?-A. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. Do you know of written instructions, as well as verbal, given the Register by the Secretary ?-A. There was a written direction given the Register by the chief clerk of the department, as representative of the Secretary. Q. Was your office in the habit of receiving directions from the chief clerk as officially coming from the Secretary?-A. Yes, sir. Q. When were those changes made?-A. In the report for 1871. Q. Was the Secretary's report transmitted to Congress in an official way, do you know?-A. Yes, sir. Q. What did the changes involve?-A. It was believed that the changes involved corrections, and that after the changes were made the statements were more nearly the absolute facts. As I understand it, |