Memorandum of erasures, alterations, and changes found in "Register of Public Debt Warrants" from January 1, 1865, to December 31, 1869, &c.-Continued.

ROOM 65, TREASURY BUILDING, COMMITTEE ON TREASURY ACCOUNTS, Washington, D. C., November 22, 1878. SENATOR: I make, at your request, a copy from my "memorandum-book of alterations and erasures," from a book called "Register of Public Debt Warrants."

In my examination of the books furnished the committee by the Secretary of the Treasury, I have thus far noted 1,120 alterations and changes in the 39 books I have examined.

Most respectfully, your obedient servant,

Hon. H. G. DAVIS,

Chairman, &c.

EDWD. BYRNE.

Q. Have you made examinations of different books in the Secretary's the Register's, and the Treasurer's offices?-A. My examination was particularly in the Register's and Treasurer's books, and the public debt ledger of the Secretary from 1860 to 1871, inclusive.

Q. Did you find upon those books alterations or errors or erasures in figures ?—A. Yes, sir; I found alterations, scratches, canceled warrants.

Q. To what extent ?-A. In the Treasurer's books from 1860 to 1867, inclusive, the alterations, scratches, and canceled warrants amounted to about twelve hundred in round numbers.

Q. Twelve hundred different alterations?-A. Alterations, scratches, and canceled warrants, anything like a change from the original amount.

Q. Just explain generally what you found upon the books in regard to erasures or alterations of figures?-A. A.nounts scratched and new figures substituted.

Q. Do you know of any leaves being entirely out of the books that appeared to have been cut out ?-A. Yes, sir. In the beginning of the war some of the Treasurer's accounts are that way, about 1861 and 1862.

Q. In how many instances?-A. Two-four leaves in one case, and five in the other. I can produce the books, if you wish.

The memorandum here given is of erasures and apparent changes found in one book, "Register of Public Debt Warrrants," between January, 1865, and December, 1869. There are about one hundred of these changes running from a few dollars up to twenty or thirty millions.

This book was selected as a sample from among the many books of the department. It will be noticed that there are on the Treasurer's books from 1860 to 1867, inclusive, alterations, scratches, and cancelled warrants amounting in round numbers to 1,200. This testimony also shows that a number of leaves have been cut out of the Treasury books and are gone.

John W. Gentry, acting as a clerk to the committee, was examined and testified (see testimony, p. 165):

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Have you made a careful examination of certain ledgers of the Register and Secretary of the Treasury ?-Answer. I have.

Q. You selected one of the number that you have examined as an example of all that you have examined?—A. I did of those mentioned in this statement.

Q. Is the statement before you the statement you wish now to offer as being a correct statement of the erasures and apparent alterations on the books you examined?— A. It is.

Again (see testimony, p. 174):

The eight (8) ledgers enumerated below have also been examined, with the results as stated. Three (3) ledgers from office of Register.

I certify that I have carefully examined the nine (9) ledgers enumerated above, and that the foregoing is a true statement of the erasures and apparent alterations.

JNO. W. GENTRY, Clerk.

Q. (By Mr. DAWES.) In the cases where your tables show what are called erasures and alterations, are you able to tell what the figures, as they now exist, have been substituted for?-A. I am not.

Thus it appears that in three ledgers from the Register's office there are 428 erasures and apparent alterations; in six ledgers of the Secretary's office 2,099 erasures and apparent alterations; making a total of 2,527 in nine ledgers. It will be seen that the Secretary's ledgers have

many more of what appear to be changes and alterations than the Register's books have, and that the number is not a few hundred involving small sums, but reaches to thousands involving many millions of dollars; and they do not appear only in the day-books or journals, but extend to the great ledgers of final entry.

As to scratches in and alterations of the books, Major Power testifies (see testimony, p. 91):

Q. Do you know whether or not there are scratches, changes, or alterations, whatever you choose to call them, upon the books of the department; take the Secretary's office?-A. Scratches and mis-entries occur, I believe, in all systems of accounts, and the Secretary's office of the Treasury Department is no exception to that. may make a mistake at any time.

A clerk

Q. Is that likely to follow from the day-book or journal into the ledger?-A. It would be in the journal or register.

Q. But it ought not to be in the ledger?-A. No scratches or mis-entries should occur in the ledger.

Q. You keep what is known as a register or journal, and post from that into the ledger, do you not?-A. Yes, sir.

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This experienced accountant testifies that, while scratches might occur in the day-book or journal, they ought not to occur in the ledger. But yet the committee find thousands of scratches and apparent alterations of figures in ledgers between 1860 and 1870.

TIME REQUIRED TO EXAMINE THE DEBT STATEMENT.

Major Power testifies (see testimony, pp. 72 and 73):

Q. Please state how long it would take to examine carefully the debt and vouchers at the same time for a single year, say take the year 1866, so that you could tell whether or not there were errors in the details. How long would it take and how many clerks to go through that year or any year you choose?-A. It would not be feasible to examine the public debt for any one detached year. The result would not be satisfactory. Q. The question is, how long would it take, without regard to results?-A. The examination of the debt for one year might necessitate an examination from the commencement of the loan up to that period and even afterwards. It would take four or five clerks one year at least.

Q. To do what?-A. To examine the debt particularly for one year, and for the reason, as I say, that the examination might necessitate going back to the commencement of each loan.

Q. Going into the warrants and transactions of the government to show whether or not there were errors in the accounts?-A. To not go beyond the stated accounts as stated and certified by the Comptrollers, it would not be a task of much difficulty. It would take four or five years.

Q. For how many clerks ?—A. With a corps of seven or eight clerks.

Thus it appears that an officer of the Treasury who has served many years in the Register's office and in the office of the Secretary is satisfied that "it would take four or five clerks one year at least" to carefully examine the public debt for a single year, and to examine the warrants and transactions of the government looking for errors would take the same force four or five years. And yet it appears from the testimony of Mr. Bayley that he alone, with no experience in the Treasury Department, made an examination into all the transactions of the government from 1833 to 1870 in four and a half months.

Mr. Bayley testified (see testimony, pp. 116 and 117):

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By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. Did you, in 1870, assist Mr. Saville, chief clerk of the Treasury Department, in making up a revisory statement of the accounts in the Secretary's office ?-A. I did. Q. How long were you at it ?-A. About four months and a half.

Q. Did you do the entire work yourself?-A. I did; that is to say, I understand you are speaking now of the tables in the Secretary's report.

Q. The debt tables?-A. No, not the debt tables, but the receipts and expenditures. Q. On account of the public debt?—A. No, sir; the Receipts and Expenditures of the Government, Tables K and L, I think, in the Secretary's report of 1870.

Q. Of general receipts and expenditures?-A. Yes, sir. It appeared there for the first time that year.

Q. Who was engaged on the debt part of the statement connected with those tables! [Exhibiting to the witness the report of 1870, with the Tables K and L.] Are those the tables?-A. The whole of this and the whole of that [indicating Tables K and L] are my work from beginning to end.

Q. Are these the receipts and expenditures on account of the public debt?-A. Yes, sir; to a certain extent.

Q. State, now, how long you were at it.-A. About four months and a half in preparing that particular table.

Q. You did the whole work yourself?-A. Yes, sir; the actual manual labor, figuring, &c.

Q. Where did you get your data?-A. From the printed receipts and expenditures, so far as printed at that time. Down, I think, to 1866 they were printed

Q. Where did you get the other four years from?-A. From the books in the Warrant Division.

Q. Of the Secretary's office?-A. Yes, sir.

This shows that Mr. Bayley alone did all the work between August and November, 1870-four or five months; that he commenced in 1789 with the Receipts and Expenditures, examined the accounts of the gov ernment from 1789 to 1870, and made up a statement which caused small and large changes for nearly every year in the Receipts and Expenditures and from 1833 in the public debt. If, as Major Power testifies on page 73 of the testimony (and Dr. Guilford, of the Register's office, on pages 24 and 25 of the the testimony, substantially agrees with him), it would take four or five clerks a year to examine carefully as to the debt of one year, and four or five years to examine it between 1860 and 1870, how could Mr. Bayley, without experience, who had just come into the department, have made in four or five months an examination from 1833 to 1870 which could justify a change in the figures of the Finance Reports? It must be apparent that a careful examination of the books and accounts of the Treasury Department from 1833 to 1870 could not have been made by one man, or even a dozen men, in four months and a half.

STATEMENT RELATING TO DEBT, INTEREST, PREMIUMS, AND LOANS.

Among the statements furnished to the committee was the following from the office of the Secretary of the Treasury:

SECRETARY No. 2.

10,090,818,717 04 7,747,544,312 79

8,358,794 19 2,065,716 40 6,811,164,766 67 2,959,616,063 81 610,048,581 77 1,816,478,972 57 59,738,167 73 32,458,462 37 5,916,909 00