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ballot as it was exercised at that election, or at the Presidential election of 1876, or at any general election in the State at or since Novem. ber, 1876 ?- A. The nearest thing there is to bulldozing in Massachu. setts, I think, is the practice which is somewhat in vogue in the large cities, of subsidizing liquor saloons in the immediate vicinity of the polls.
By Jr. MCDONALD : Q. What do you know about that yourself ?-A, I will tell you just what I kuow.
Q. You were asked for information of your own knowledge ?-A. I will give just the information that I have. I see men invited into a liquor saloon; I see them come out shortly thereafter under guard, in charge of another man who has previously put through others; they walk with that man to the polling place, and if I or any other member of the opposite party attempt to put a ballot into their hands, it is taken away from them; if I attempt to stop them or talk with them, I am either insulted or pushed aside. That is so in some of the wards of the city, in the wards in which I bare been. When they arrive at the poll. ing place they are rushed up to the polls by their political friends, I suppose; and if another ballot is put in their bands, it is taken away from them, or else they are called back, re.primed, and then pushed or hastened up to the polls again. I have seen that done in wards of the city in which I have lived, hundreds of times.
By Mr. BLAIR : Q. By what party - A. Almost exclusirely by the Democratic party.
Q. You say you have observed this in the wards in which you bave lived. Have you lived in more than one!-A. I have lived in two wards,
Q. What wards are they?-A. Old ward four and the new ward twelve, which is a very strong Democratic ward.
Q. Of what class of voters are those you refer to as being thus subsi. dized through the agency of the liquor saloons, and induced to vote the Democratic ticket 1-1. They are principally ignorant men, working men, wlio come along about twelve or one o'clock, as they get off from their work, who are very ready to take a glass of rum and are bribed thereby.
Q. Have you known of the wrongful use of money for a like purpose by any party here in the city, at the polls ?-A. I never have traced money back to any candidate, but I know that there must be money spent, else the liquor would not be forthcoming.
Q. But my question has reference to your knowledge of the use of money directly to bribe the voter bimself. Have you personal knowledge of any practice of that kind 1-A, No; I have no personal knowledge of it, I never attempted to act as a spy.
Q. But this other that you have observed has been open and public, has it !-A. Yes.
Q. And, as you have described, is a somewhat common practice in those wards. What is the fact as to its existence in other wards in the city ? -A. It is more or less common, according to the class of people who are residents of the ward.
Q. How numerous is this class that are thus acted upon ?-A. They are numbered by thousands.
Q. I think it was testified to that the whole registration of the city is some 54,000. Of course, speaking from judgment, you caunot be exact in a matter of this kind. You say they are nambered by thousands. How many thousands of them are there, in your judgment ?-A. I have never estimated it in that way, but I should say that there are more than 10,000 in the city of Boston who could be influenced in that way.
Q. Have you any knowledge of circulars issued by the opposing political party last autumn, or at the Presidential election of 1876, or at the gubernatorial election in the State, in 1877 ?-A. No, sir.
Q. You have not acted as a spy in that regard ?-A. No, sir ; copies of our circulars were always made by the Butler spies, I understood in our office, but we never troubled ourselves about them.
Q. Have you ever had occasion to observe any violence at any of the ward polling places in the city, practiced against Republicans by those who were acting for or were in the interest of the Democratic party?
A. Yes; there is apt to be more or less pulling and pushing.
| NOTE.-A statement by the witness at this point was subsequently eliminated upon the fact appearing that it had reference exclusively to the city election of 1877.]
Q. What is your opinion of the usefulness of the Federal election laws as you have seen their efficiency demonstrated in this State ?-A. I tbiuk they are very beneficial.
Q. State your reasons for tbat opinion.--A. I think that they help to secure a more perfect registration and that they also help on election day to prevent ballot-stufting and other frauds in the ward room. An inde. pendent body, a second body of men coming to the ward-room act as a guard on the wardens and inspectors; and I think that at this last election (the electiou of 1878), they had a very beneficial effect in preventing fraud.
Q. How was it as to a prevention of illegal roting by the presence at the polls of the marshals, and the knowledge that must have extended through this city that there was a liability to an immediate peremptory arrest in case of an attempt to vote frauduleutly? Had that any de. terring effect !-A. I think it had a very great deterring effect.
Q. Do you know of any abuse of a citizen or any wrongful influence attempted to be used by the supervisors or the marshals at the last election, or at any election ?-A. No; I never heard of any.
Q. Yon not only have no personal knowledge of any complaint, but you bave never heard of any ?-A. No, sir.
Q. Have you on the contrary beard comments by leading men in either political party as to the manner in which this body of Federal officers discharged their duty, or beard anything said about it one way or the otber in the community ?-A. Yes.
Q. What seems to be the general sentiment in that regard ?-A. The general opinion among those whom I met, was that they had done good and had performed their services pretty well.
Q. Is there any other matter of consequence that occurs to you to state to the committee ?-A. I do not think of any.
By Mr. McDONALD: Q. How long bare sou been an active partisan or politician ?-A. I do not consider myself exactly a partisan politician.
Q. You have been connected with the political machinery of the Republican party in this State, bave you not?-A. I was secretary of the Republican State central committee for two years.
0. Do you think that that was not a very partisau place ?-A. No.
Q. For two years you bave been acting as a political partisan on the Republican sidel-A. Yes. On the other hand, if the Republican
party had nominated a man whom I did not believe in, I should have resigned my place.
Q. If they could have found such a man in Massachusetts, one whom you did not believe in, you should not have gone for him 1-A. Yes. If Benjamin F. Butler bad been nominated in Massachusetts I should not have gone for bim.
Q. Then there was one man in Massachusetts that the Republican party could nominate whom you could not support 1-A. There are more.
Q. What was the majority against Mr. Butler at the last State election ?-A. The plurality against bim was twenty-six thousand odd. The year before the Republican plurality was eighteen thousand.
Q. You think that there are ten thousand voters in this city whose votes can be bought for liquor?-A. I am afraid there are.
Q. Bought for either party ?-A. I am afraid so.
Q. Do you not think that that is a pretty big estimate for your city? How much liquor do you think it would take to buy a vote ?-A. It would be according to the capacity of the man.
Q. One drink 1-A. I have never attempted to make any investigations in that matter.
Q. As to these persons you have seen go into saloons in company with other persons, and then come out and go to the polls, what was their political bias, to what party were they understood as belonging ?-A. They were almost invariably understood as belonging to the Democratic party.
Q. They were Democrats who went in with them, were they 1-A. Yes.
Q. Do you suppose that they were going in there to buy the votes of those men when the men were Democrats already ?-A. It is difficult to get a man to the polls, you know, and there a good many divisions and subdivisions of the ballot.
Q. Did you ever try to get a ticket into the hands of one of these men when he came out?-A. I have.
Q. And he would not take it from you ?-A. I have had a ticket to get into his hands, and his guard has taken it away from him.
Q. Did you offer him anytbing else besides the ticket?-A. I never did.
Q. How did you expect to get his vote by simply putting a Republican ticket in his hands, if be was a man who sold himself !--A. I thought I would make the attempt. I did not have much hope.
Q. Then you were not very much disappointed when he did not vote your ticket I-A. No; it was what I expected.
Q. But you think that that man's vote could have been bought for the Republican party with a little more liquor, do you ?-A. I don't know that it could bare been bought with a little more liquor, but I think it would have been easier to get bim to vote the Republican ticket if somebody else had got bold of bim and offered bim liquor.
Q. Why did you not try the experiment?-A. Because I did not think that such persons were fit to exercise the right of suffrage.
Q. Why then did you offer him a ticket if you thought he was an un. fit person to exercise the elective franchise ?-A. If he was going to ex. ercise it, it would be better for him to vote my way than the other way.
Q. You thought you would exercise it for him more intelligently than he could 1-A. No; I would give him the choice if I could.
Q. Still you thougbt he was an unfit person to exercise the elective franchise 1-A, If he allowed another person to boss bim, to take the
ballot away from him without his judgment in the matter, I would have thought him unfit.
Q. If he had allowed you to boss him, would you have thought any better of him !-A, I should not bave attempted to boss him.
Q. You offered him a ticket ?-A. Yes. Is that bossing bim !
Q. If be bad acceded to your request and voted your ticket, would you have thought any better of him ?-A. If he had displayed any in. telligence in bis choice, I should have thought better of him.
Q. Of the ten thousand men in this city whose votes you think could be bought with liquor, do you know that there are any Republicans among them ?-A. Yes.
Q. What proportion do you think are Republicans ?-A. I could not tell. There are some undoubtedly.
Q. There are undoubtedly Republicans in this city whose votes can be bought with liquor. Have you ever known the experiment to be made I-A. I suppose it has been made.
Q. You have known it to be made, have you not ?-A. No.
Q. I would like to get at the proportion, as near as you can give it, of these ten thousand who you think are Republicans, and whose votes can be bought with liquor.-A. It would be very hard to state. Possibly one or two thousand.
Q. Since you have been secretary of the Republican State central committee, has not that organization used pretty much all the instru. mentalities they knew of to secure votes !-A. No, sir; they have used only those instrumentalities that they thougbt were proper.
Q. What instrumentalities tbat they knew of by which votes could be controlled bave thev pot used !-A. There is the subsidizing of the liquor saloons, which is one that we have never used.
Q. No Republicau in the last two years ever subsidized liquor saloons? -A. I did not say that. You were talking about the Republican State committee. I cannot vouch for every Republican throughout the State.
Q. You do not undertake to vouch for them -A. No.
Q. It was not the business of the Republican State central committee to buy up saloons ?-A. No, sir.
Q. That was not within “their lay" ?-A. I do not know; they did not do it.
Q. Did they pay any taxes ! -A. No, sir; except in a very few cases. I think there may have been a very few paid by the office, but our instructions were
Q. How was that done ; how is this tax question managed ?-A. Whenever a town committee saw fit to do anything of that sort, they did it, but it was entirely aside from us.
Q. Was not that looked after by the Republican State central com. mittee to see that the taxes of such Republicans as had not qualified by paying taxes were paid !--A. No. There was a number of applications made to us.
Q. You are not answering my question. I asked you whether the State central committee, or the otticers of it, did not look after the question of tax-paying to see how many Republicans who might qualify to vote had not yet paid their taxes and qualified.--A. Of course we urged the town committees in all towns to see that all persons who were qualified to vote paid their taxes and got upon the voting list.
Q. That is, wbat class of persons, Democrats as well as Republicans ? -A. No; I suppose that the Republican town committees would look out for the Republicans alone.
Q. Then you did urge the Republican town committees to look into the question and to ascertain what Republicans, if any, who were other. wise entitled to vote, had not paid their taxes !-A. We encouraged the town committees to look after the questions pertaining to the election.
Q. And that among the others ?--A. I do not think there was any mention of that by name.
Q. Were those instructions to town committees verbal or written ! A. No; my own theory is
Q. That the town committees looked after that without being in. structed !-A. Yes.
Q. That is your theory about it?
The WITNESS. That the town committees did look after that thing as one of the most important things, namely, to see that persons other. wise qualified to vote paid their poll taxes.
By Mr. McDONALD : Q. That is always looked after by the Republican managers in soine department, that those who vote the Republican ticket and who do not pay their taxes shall have them paid, is it not?-A. In some places it is and in some places it is not.
Q. In this city is not that pretty carefully looked after ?-A. Gener. ally it is.
Q. And if the voters do not pay them the taxes are paid for them A. In some cases they do that and in some they do not. I do not know what the general practice is.
Q. Did you ever know the Republican party here to let a vote go by for the want of a tax receipti-A, Yes; a great many.
Q. When they knew that the party was delinquent and was ready to vote if his tax was paid ?-A. I have known a number of occasions.
Q. They must have felt that the party was very strong on those oc. casions !-A. No, sir.
Q. Were they looking for the last vote in order to save their State from being disgraced by the election of Butler, as is set forth in this circular here -A. I should not pay the poll tax of a man who was not willing to vote unless I paid it, for I do not think that such men are any improvement.
Q. Do you think that every other Republican who takes part in pol. itics is like you on that subject ?-A. By no means. I think there is an honest difference of opinion on that subject.
Q. A great many think that they may honestly buy a man's vote by paying his poll-tax 1-A. Yes.
Mr. BLAIR. I understand the witness's answer to be that there is an honest difference of opinion on that subject; that some people think it is not honest and some think that it is.
Mr. McDONALD. That is true. He merely answered the question in the way that I put it. [To the wituess. You regard this supervisors law as a pretty good thing, do you uot ?-A. I think it had a beneficial effect last fall. It operated as well upon the State election as upon the Congressional election; they could not well be separated, the one from the other.
Q. It was a very valuable aid in beating Butler in this State, was it not?-A. I think it was a very good aid in preventing fraud.