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Q. Did not that give to your feeling a little more edge than usual !A. I don't think that it did.
Q. Did you always give your personal preference to the candidate of your party 1-A. I think not. I assisted Mr. Rice; I spoke in favor of bim.
Q. That was altogether personal, not political ?—A. I don't know that yon can call it personal.
Q. Did you prefer Mr. Rice's politics when you assisted him ?-A. No; but I thought he was the better man of tbe two.
Q. That is what I say; your personal preference overcame your political preference in the case of Mr. Rice ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. To what Mr. Rice bave you reference ?-A. George W. Rice, who was running for the legislature.
Q. So that, in the case of Mr. George W. Rice, you voted for a candi. date for personal, not for political reasous ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. When your personal and political views both run in the same direction, does not that add a little edge to your political preference ?-A. It is possible that it may.
Q. Looking back over the time, I ask you to say if you don't remember that you were a little more earnest and felt a stronger personal desire for the success of your own side in the gubernatorial race last year than usual -A. I dlou't think I did.
Q. Tbe village of Manchaug is owned almost exclusively by this Man: chaug corporation ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. The outside properties are very few ?-A. There are ten or twelve, perhaps.
Q. The hall which bas been here referred to is used as a town hall, is it not?-A. It is not used for any town purposes at all.
Q. It is used for public purposes, for public meetings of various kinds! -A. Yes, sir.
Q. Whenever a company of strollers come along, wbether negro inin. strels or anything else, they get that ball to perform in ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. And when a stray preacher comes along he gets that ball to preach in ?-A. There bas never been any preaching there that I know of.
Q. But upon all convenient pablic occasions the hall is used !-A. Yes, sir.
Q. It is the only ball in the village -A. It is the only hall in the village.
Q. Why was not Mr. Eli Thayer allowed to speak in it, when other candidates were allowed to speak in it!-A. If Mr. Thayer had applied for the hall himself, or if tbe proper representatives of the Democratic party there in the village had applied for it, they could have had it. It was tendered to them.
Q. Tendered to whom ?-A. Representatives of the Democratic party.
Q. Didn't your company refuse it to them in 1876 1-A. I do not know.
Q. Your company wauted to be the judge of the kind of persons enti. tled to apply for it; and if certain persons applied, who, in their opin. ion, were proper representatives, those persons could have it, and if certain others applied, tbey could not have it.-A. It was a well-known fact that if certain persons applied they could bave the hall.
Q. That is, if you thought that the man they sent for it was tbe right man ?-A. I had nothing to do with it.
Q. Or if your company thought that the man they sent for it was the right inan l-A. Yes, sir.
Q. But because Mr. Waters applied, the use of the hall was not granted !-A. Yes, sir.
Q. In other words, the company undertook to dictate to him and to the Democratic party whom that party should select to speak for them; was that it ?-A. I don't think that was it. As I understand it, Mr. Waters is not recognized by them..
Q. If the use of the ball had been conceded to Mr. Waters, I sup. pose that the ball would have held the same audience that it would have held if its use had been conceded to somebody else for the same purpose ?-A. I suppose so.
Q. It would not have made any difference as to the speakers, nor as to the size of the audience ?-A. No, sir.
Q. You say that the refusal was exclusively on account of the person who applied -A. We didn't understand that he came there to apply on behalf of anybody but himself.
Q. Didn't he come there to ask for the hall in order that the Demo. cratic candidate for Congress might speak in it!-A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was Mr. Thayer, not Mr. Waters, who was going to speak, and in whose behalf the voters were to turn out on that occasion. The applicant for the hall might have been a porter, or anybody who was sent for the purpose. Do you not think that it looked a little like par. tisan spite-work to visit the sins of the agent upon the party -A. It would have looked like that if the men applying for it properly repre. sented the party.
Q. On that occasion be was representing the party, because you ad. mit that Mr. Thayer was to be the speaker and that the audience was to be the people of that vicinage who might turn out to hear him. Then what difference could it make whether Mr. Waters went there to ask for the keys of the hall or some one else did !--A. Really no difference.
Q. Did it not look as if the company were shutting the Democratic party out of their hall -A. Mr. McArthur could answer that. I had no conversation with the men who applied for it, and therefore do not know about it.
By Mr. PLATT: Q. You had nothing to do with the hall !--A. Nothing at all for that purpose.
By Mr. McDonald: Q. If the objection had been really to Mr. Waters personally, do you not think it would have been the polite thing, after refusing the hall, not to the Democratic party, but to Mr. Waters as an individual, to have informed Mr. Thayer, when he came to the town, that he could speak in that hall, and that he was not compelled to go out to that barn ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. Being denied the facilities which had been accorded to the audi. euce at the meeting of the other political party, Mr. Thayer's audience were subjected to the inconvenience of going off to that barn on the outskirts of the village. After that refusal, the balance of the Democratic meetings that were held there last season were held in that barn, were they not?-A. I think that they had only one meeting after that.
Q. That was held in the barn ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. The Democrats understood that they had been excluded from the public hall and therefore went to the barn as the only place in which their meetings could be held ?-A. I don't think that the Democrats of the village thought they had been excluded. Q. That was the belief upon which subsequently the Democrats of the town acted, at all events. It seems that the village belonged almost entirely to this corporation, and that those of the citizens who were not owned by the company in any way took a view of that matter that was somewhat different from that of the corporation people ?-A. They seem to have.
Q. You say that Terrence Kennedy has been living there about four years?-A, I think so.
Q. Has his son been at work in the factory all that time 1-A. I think he has.
Q. His nieces were at work?-A. I think that his pieces were away at that portion of the time.
Q. Was it not after that that they went to Connecticut 1-A. I am quite positive that they were away at that time.
Q. Were they at work at the time that young Kennedy was given his notice to quit ?-A. No, sir; not as near as I can recollect it.
Q. At what time was he given his notice to quit ?-A. I cannot tell positively.
Q. It was before the election ?-A. I was under the impression that it was before the election.
Q Did he not quit at once, without working out his two weeks' notice ? -A. I don't know. The overseers have all that business to attend to.
Q. And they would be more accurate on that subject than you ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. The notice to Terrence Kennedy to quit his tenement was served upon him on the Saturday on which Mr. Thayer made his speech in the barn ?-A. I don't think it was on that day.
Q. Was it not on Saturday ?-A. I guess it was on Saturday.
Q. You say that he came up to your house on Sunday morning ?-A. Yes.
Q. Was it not upon the Saturday before that Sunday that the notice was served !-A. Yes, sir; it was.
Q. Was it not a singular coincidence that the day on which the notice was served happened to be the day on which Mr. Thayer made his speech in the barn 1-A. I couldn't tell about that.
Q. You say that on the Sunday when Terrence Kennedy came to your house he annoyed you and interfered somewhat with your pious devotions, in preventing you from going to church on that day. Did he not say to you on that occasion, when he first came, that if you would let him stay in the tenement until after the election, he would get out of it without any trouble to you?-A. I think he did say that; it is very likely.
Q. Did you not tell him that he should go as soon as the law would make bim !-A. I think, perhaps, I did ; I could not say positively.
Q. He remained some time, and was it not his effort, during all of that time, to get you to withdraw that suit, as he did not want to pay costs, and to let him alone until after the election, when he would go out peaceably ?-A. I never heard a word of that.
Q. Did he not say that if you would let him stay there until after the election he would go out without any trouble !-A. I do not think he did say that.
Q. A little while ago I understood you to say that he did say that.A: I think not.
Q. But he did go out after the election peaceably ?-A. He did.
Q. And he told you that if you would let him alone he would go out as soon as the election was over 1-A. I don't think he put it in that way.
But was not that the substance of it? When you told him that he would go out as soon as the law would make him, did he not then tell you he would wait and see whether the law would make him, and, if there was to be any law about it, he would see whether you could oppress him in a matter of that kind -A. I do not remember that he stated that.
Q. Toward the close of the conversation, when you got restless, what did he say ?-A. I tbink he said that he would be damned if he would go.
Q. And did you not say that you would be damned if he didn't go ?A. I do not know about that part. I think possibly that I did.
Q. That was about 11 o'clock on Sunday morning, was it not ?-A. It was about 11 o'clock.
Q. When did church usually meet there ?—A. About a quarter be. fore 11.
Q. So that church had about begun at that time, and you concluded that that day's sermon having been pretty well broken in, you might as well go it, and give Terrence back as good as he sent? Did he not then tell you that he would go and take legal advice about it 1-A. Yes; I remember that portion of it; that he told me he had taken legal advice, and that we could not get bim out.
Q. This was on a Sunday. How long was it before the election ; was it two weeks ?-A. I really could not remember. It is not fresh in my mind. . Q. Was it the Sunday two weeks, or the Sunday one week, before the election ?-A. I really could not tell.
Q. It was some days before the election ?-A. Yes; I think it was some days before the election.
Q. The case was to be heard up at Worcester, was it l-A. Yes, sir.
Q. And when that case came on, it was found that no special notice had been given, and the suit was dismissed ?-A. I think that that was it.
Q. Then a lease was made of the premises to somebody. To whom was that lease made!-A. To a man by the name of Seymour. .
Q. Did you draw up that lease ?-A. I think I drew up one, and that it was of no use.
Q. The one that you drew up was not regarded as a good legal in. strument. Do you remember when that was drawn up ?-A. It all happened about the same time.
Q. This was all before the election. Then this lessee instituted suit. for possession from the company ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. Wbere was this lessee living!-A. In the village there.
Q. The company was going to change him from the tenement he had been occupying to the tenement that Kennedy was in, and so the leas was made out to him ?-A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then he was directed to bring suit. Was not that second suit also resisted by Kennedy ?-A. I did not have anything to do about that particularly ; Mr. McArthur did the most of that business.
Q. But, as it turned out, Mr. Kennedy remained there until after the election, put in bis vote, and then quietly moved out of the premises ?A. I think he did.
Q. There was no further trouble with him after the election was over? -A. I think not.
Q. In these conversations which you had with him, didn't he tell you that this was all because of his activity for Butler -A. No; he did not.
Q. Did he not complain that it was because of his political status 1A. He did not to me.
Q. He told you that he was going to stay there to vote for Butler ? A. He might have told me that.
Q. Is this man to whom the company leased the premises working in the establishment R-A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many hands had he in the employ of the establishment! A. He had four.
Q. Who were they ?-A. His daughters and sons.
Q. How long had be been occupying the tenement that he was in 1-A. I do not know. He has been there, I should think, two or three years; whether he remained in the same tenement all of that time or not I am not positive.
Q. He had remained in the employ of the company some two or three years, and has been occupying a tenement house of theirs ?-A. Yes.
Q. How long he had been occupying the one he was in before you transferred him to Kennedy's tenement you do not remember -A. I do not remember.
Q. You say it is about five miles from the village of Manchaug to the polling place at Sutton !-A. Yes, sir.
Q. The three salaried officers of the Mancbaug Company devoted that day to the political welfare of the company, didn't they 1-A. I do not think that Mr. Robert McArthur remained there all that day; I think he did not.
Q. You all felt it was very important to see that the honor of the State of Massachusetts was vindicated in the defeat of Butler, didn't you !-A. We felt an interest in the election, of course, as we always do in elections.
Q. You say you have no recollection of using the expression to the barber which the younger Mr. Kennedy attributes to you -A. No, sir.
Q. You were frequently in the barber shop when he was being shaved 1-A. No; I shave myself generally.
Q. But you are in the barber shop occasionally ?--A. Not three times in a year.
Q. You would not say that you were not in the barber shop, and were not sbaved there ?-A. No; I would not say that.
Q. You simply do not remember of having used any such expression 1-A. I remember nothing of the kind.
Q. From the earnest desire which you had upon the subject, do you think that that would have been a very singular thing for you to say ?“ Young man, you had better recollect wbich side your bread is buttered on."-A. O, it is possible I may have made a remark of that kind about bread and butter or something.
Q. That he had better recollect on which side bis bread was buttered ? -A. I do not think I made any such statement as that which he has said that I made.
Q. He may have remembered it and you may have forgotten it 1--A. I do not think I would be apt to make any such a remark as that.
Q. I ask you if the remark is such an unusual one for you as to cause you to think that?-A. It would be a very unusual remark for me to make.
Q. Do you not think that that was the side his butter was on? Was not that your opinion ?-A. It might have been my opinion, but I didn't express it.