cases?-A. Perhaps it would have been, but we had the right to infer that the board would be impartial.

Q. But you say you knew that they were not?-A. Certainly; I don't know of any means that we had to coerce them.

Q. You had the legal right to ask them?-A. I have stated that we asked them in one instance and we got all the satisfaction that we expected to get.

Q. And you desisted?-A. We took no further part except to send men over there; we kept no men stationed there.

Q. As you sent men over, did any one go with them?—A. We always sent a man with them to take them to headquarters.

Q. Did the man who went with them attend to their cases?—A. Certainly, as a rule; he would see if Judge Utley was there.

Q. Judge Utley's term has expired?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was any more complaint made of Judge Utley than of the others? -A. We had no more complaint of him than of the others; he was the leading one.

Q. Was he the chairman ?-A. I think we was; I do not know.

Q. You did not make much effort, then, to get these men upon the list? -A. We sent our men over and made these representations; they do not seem to have amounted to much.

Q. Had you any belief that the representations were untrue?-A. I don't know that they were.

Q. You took no pains in that regard?-A. No, sir.

Q. Is Worcester a close Republican city?-A. In close elections Worcester is Republican by about five hundred.

Q. What is the aggregate vote of the city?-A. Between eight and nine thousand; in 1876 we cast, I think 4,145 Tilden votes, and 4,600 or 4,700 Hayes votes.

Q. Do you think that that was about the relative strength of the two parties?—A. I think it was.

Q. What was the vote for Butler in 1878?-A. The vote in 1878 was: for Talbot, 4,300 and something; for Butler, 3,800 and something; for Abbott, 239; and for Miner, something like 150, if I recollect right.

Q. The aggregate vote then was not quite as large as in 1876 ?—A. Not quite.

Q. The relative strength, as compared with the vote of 1876, was in favor of the Democrats?-A. I should say that it was; the vote for Butler was relatively a large one.

Q. The general held his own in the State pretty well, notwithstanding this real or pretended intimidation?-A. I think he would have been elected if there had been none of that.

Q. You think that if the Republican employers had all gone for him he would have been elected?-A. No, sir; I did not say that; I think that if the Republican employers had minded their own business he would have been elected.

Q. You say if they had minded their own business. In regard to that matter, do you know of any specific instance in which a Republican employer did not mind his own business?-A. I cannot give you the

name.

Q. You do not know of any instance whatever?-A. No; those things do not happen in such a way that you can particularize them.

Q. Have you any idea that the Republican employers intimidated voters any more than did the managers of the Butler campaign ?—A. I have.

Q. How do you account for it that if there is no class influence or

race influence or other influence of an intimidating character to keep them so closely united, the Irish vote, as other witnesses have testified, is almost unanimously for General Butler or for the Democratic candidate?-A. I think that, as a rule, the Irish people vote the Democratic ticket because they believe in Democracy, and that they vote for General Butler because he has invariably, back in Know Nothing times particularly, been their friend.

Q. Do you think that every Irishman, on that side, votes as he wishes to without any undue influence from employers or priests or from any source whatever?-A. I have never known of any interference with their

vote.

Q. You have never heard of any?-A. Never, except as I have read of some in a Republican paper.

Q. These same rumors or reports of intimidation that you heard from one side you also heard from the other side?-A. I cannot give any iustances in either case.

Q. What is the reason why you think there has been intimidation on one side and not on the other?-A. For the reason that, particularly in this last election, the employés of Republicans told me that they did not dare to do so and so. I never heard it from the other side.

Q. Did you never hear that Irishmen had failed to vote the Republican ticket in many instances because they did not dare to do it ?—A. I never did.

Q. Then you have come across a different class of rumors in your time from those I have heard?-A. It may be possible.

Q. The Templeton case is one of which you know nothing except as the parties came to you?-A. Excepting as the parties stated to me.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. I understand you to say that, previous to the election, you sent out throughout the county of Worcester circulars directed to the local committees asking them to report to you any instance of intimidation on the part of employers. Did you send those generally throughout the county-A. I sent them to the chairmen of committees in the ninth Congressional district.

Q. They were sent through the district, then? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did that take in more than Worcester County -A. It did not take in the whole of Worcester County. It took in the southern part of Worcester County.

Q. Which was in the district of Mr. Rice ?-A. Yes.

Q In response to those, how many instances were brought to your knowledge-A. By letter, only one; that was the Whitinsville matter; by conversation, the Manchaug matter, the Webster matter, and evidence from Gardner which was afterwards, I believe, to be produced. There were quite a number of towns from which men came in to see me personally. The one I have stated is the only one from which I have received a written communication. The complaint, however, was very general in the small manufacturing towus.

Q. The proof, so far as you have received information, you understand, is that which has been or is to be brought before this committee? -A. Certainly.

Q. What did you understand to be the name of the speaker at the manufacturers' meeting, to whom you referred ?—A. I did not stateany name, nor can I; because the matter was only given in this way, that one of the speakers said so and so.

Q. The name was not given to you at the time?-A. No; but it was

said that that was the character of what was said, and it was also said that two manufacturers in Worcester objected to that policy.

Q. That was what might be called a rumor about the city?-A. It was a current report about the city; it was told to me by twenty or thirty different parties.

Q. Whether any speaker ever did say so or not you do not know?A. I have no evidence; I was told that Mr. J. H. Walker and Mr. Moen demurred to it, that Mr. Walker particularly stated that he would not be a party to any such bulldozing process.

Q. And that was as currently reported as the other, was it not?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. The name of the party was not given to you?-A. No; it was said that that was the tenor of it, but the names of the parties were not given; Mr. Walker's and Mr. Moen's names are the only ones that I recall in connection with it.

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. What is the business of Mr. Moen?-A. He is president of the Washburne and Moen Wire Manufacturing Company. There certainly was nothing of that kind in Mr. Moen's corporation.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. On the whole, so far as the city of Worcester is concerned, did any specific instances come to your knowledge where employers had threatened their hands before election that in case they did not vote agafust Butler they would be discharged, or where any one was discharged after the election, because he had not voted against Butler, except that of the Vaill case?—A. I never heard of any except the Vaill I do not think there was in the city of Worcester very much of that done.

case.

Q. What position does Judge Utley now hold?-A. He is associate justice of the central district.

By Mr. McDONALD:

Q. How was it, did you say, that you secured the registration of Democratic voters who were refused registration by the board on your application?—A. Our custom was to suggest to them to walk across the street in the course of a day or two, when their faces had become less familiar, and see what the effect of their effort would be when made from the other side of the house-that is to say, if they went over to the board accompanied by Republican friends.

Q. They were to get some Republican to escort them to the office?— A. Yes; from the Republican headquarters.

Q. In that way you discovered "a northwest passage" through the registry-A. Exactly.

Q. You were asked whether if the manufacturers had all voted for Butler, in your opinion, he would not have been elected. I will ask you what you think would have been the result if the manufacturers had permitted their employés to vote according to the wishes of the employés ?-A. I think that General Butler would have been elected.

Q. But for the influence brought to bear by the manufacturers upon their help?-A. I think that that was the cause of our losing hundreds of votes in every factory village, or in nearly every one. I will not say every one, because there were instances that I knew of where manufac turers could not or would not do anything of the kind.

Q. Obtain their votes uuder fears of discharge?—A. I think that a great many of them voted under fears of discharge.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. Who were these men who were in charge of the registry there?A. Mr. Utley, Mr. Clark, and one other, whose name I forget. Mr. Utley was formerly a law student of George F. Hoar. Mr. Clark is chairman of the board of assessors of the city. The other may or may not have been Mr. Ely.

Q. Are the towns of Templeton and Whitinsville in Worcester County? A. Yes, sir; both of them.

JONATHAN A. PERHAN Sworn and examined.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Where do you live?-Answer. In the town of Ashburn. ham, Middlesex County.

Q. Where did you live in the fall of 1878?-A. In Gardner, Worcester County.

Q. Where did you vote in the fall of 1878?—A. In Gardner.

Q. How far is that from the city of Worcester?-A. About thirty miles, I judge.

Q. Do you know a Mr. Newell?-A. I do. He boarded with me last fall.

Q. Give his politics.-A. He was a Democrat.

Q. What is his first name?-A. I think he called his name "Warren"; but I am not positive about that.

Q. What are your politics?-A. My politics have been Democratic. Q. You were for whom?-A. I was for Butler last fall.

Q. What conversation had you with this man Newell about voting, and what consideration, if any, was expressed as to how he ought to vote-A. He came into the house, two or three nights before the election

[NOTE.-Mr. Platt here objected, but upon ascertaining subsequently that the whereabouts of Newell were apparently unknown, withdrew the objection.]

The WITNESS (continuing). He took out of his pocket a roll of bankbills, threw them on the table and said, "There's fifty dollars, given to me at the bank this morning to buy votes. If you will vote for Talbot, you shall have ten dollars of it; if you will keep away from the polls and not vote at all, you shall have five."

By Mr. McDONALD:

Q. Was Newell a Republican?-A. He was a Democrat.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. What did you say?-A. I told him that I should not do it.

Q. You did not take the money?—A. I did not.

Q. What did he say about anything of that kind as to other people?— A. He said he had got several, and that he was going to see another one that night.

Q. At what bank did he say he had got this money?-A. Up at the National Bank.

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. That is in the town of Gardner?-A. That is what I understood; and that there was more there ready for him when this was gone; that it was furnished to him for this business.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. On what day was this?-A. It was a few days before the election. I should say about three days before.

Q. Had this man Newell been an active Democrat?—A. He talked like that.

Q. Was he active after he had this money up until the election ?—A. He was; very.

By Mr. McDONALD :

Q. For Talbot, or to stop ballots for Butler?-A. Yes.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. Was he at the polls on the election day ?-A. He was there in the house.

Q. Do you know how he voted?-A. I think he did not vote at all; that he was not a voter there.

Q. Do you know where he came from?-A. I understood him to say that he was a voter here in the city of Boston.

Q. Do you know in what ward?-A. I do not.

Q. How long had he been at Gardner?-A. He came to Gardner somewhere in July, I should say. I cannot say positively as to time.

Q. What was his business?-A. He was a carpenter.

Q. Was he a married or a single man?-A. He had been a married man. He was then a single man.

Q. Do you know of anybody who was bought by him?-A. I do not. Q. Do you know what had been the vote of Gardner before that ?— A. I do not.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. Do you know where this man Newell is now?-A. I do not. I have not seen him since last fall.

Q. How long did you stay in Gardner? Did you stay after the election?-A. I staid there until this spring. I think it was in June that I moved.

Q. Did Mr. Newell remain in Gardner as long as you did?-A. No, sir; he left immediately after the election, or not a great while after. Q. Did he appear to be a sane man?-A. I never saw anything to the contrary.

Q. Do you think that any sane man would do what you say that ne did?—A. I could not tell you as to that.

Q. What had been your acquaintance with him up to that time ?—A. He had boarded with me from the time he came into town up to the time that he left town, or a little before it.

Q. Do you know where in Boston he came from?-A. I do not. told me the street, but I do not remember it.

He

Q. Can you give us any information by which you think we might be able to find him now?-A. He told me that he had a son in one of the banks here, and I think he said that the son was cashier of the bank; but which bank it was I cannot tell you.

Q. How old a man was he?-A. I should think about fifty-five or sixty, somewhere along there.

Q. What is your age?-A. Fifty-eight years.

Q. What is your business?-A. Stone-cutter.

Q. He knew you were a Democrat, did he not?-A. He knew that I was a Butler man last fall, and that I was going to vote for Butler. Q. He knew you had been a Democrat previously?—A. I don't know that he knew anything about what I had been.