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Q. That is, just before the election ?-A. Just before the election. Q. What did he say to them?-A. He would speak to them and ask them which way they were going to vote; the expression would be which way the man was going to vote; and, if they replied "The Democratic ticket," he would tell them he thought they missed it; that it would be for their interest to vote the Republican ticket.

Q. You saw him giving out votes at the election and heard him making use of the same expressions ?-A. That was in 1878. I never saw Mr. Moore peddling tickets until 1878.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. How long have you worked for the company?-A. It is over thirty years since I first worked for them.

Q. Have you been a Democrat all the while ?-A. No, sir.

Q. When did you become a Democrat?-A. In 1868 or 1869.

Q. For ten years, then, you have been a Democrat ?—A. For ten years I have belonged to the Labor-Reform or Democratic party.

Q. It is pretty difficult to tell what the name of the party is up here in Massachusetts now. But you were not a Republican since 1863 ?— A. Not since 1868 or 1869.

Q. How many men work in the same room in which you work ?—A. I worked in both of the temperers' shops. In the one in which I now work there are six besides myself.

Q. You are acquainted with the men there ?-A. I am well acquainted with every man who works on the works, having been there so long.

Q. Previous to the election of 1878, did you talk to the men on politics generally?-A. I did.

Q. Did you tell them that the best thing they could do would be to vote for Butler ?-A. I did when I had occasion.

Q. Did Mr. Albert Butler do anything more than that except that he talked on the other side?-A. I don't think he did any more about talking than I did. He took an active part.

Q. The only difference between you, then, so far as that was concerned, was that you were working there with the men and he was an agent of the company?-A. Mr. Butler was and is general inspector; Mr. Moore is the agent.

Q. What are you?-A. I am a temperer. Butler is an inspector of forging.

Q. Do you have men working under you?-A. No.

Q. Do you consider it wrong for Mr. Butler, who is an inspector of work, to talk to the men, ask them how they are going to vote, and consider it right for you, who are acquainted with the men and are with them, in the shop to do the same thing?—A. I do not consider it wrong for him to talk with them if he does not use any threats.

Q. Do you know personally that he did use any threats ?-A. I do not. I did not testify to that.

Q. Butler is a pretty good fellow aside from politics? Such is the statement made here by one of the witnesses -A. He is. He and I always got along.

By Mr. BLAIR :

Q. Last year was a peculiar year, was it not, that is, parties were much more excited than usual-A. It was so in our town.

Q. Did you ever know the manufacturing interest-that is, the manufacturers themselves, to take as much interest in politics as they did last year?-A. I never did.

Q. Do you know why they took so much interest? Did you hear

any expressions from which you could have some understanding as to why they did?—A. I heard them make expressions to the effect that they thought it would be a great deal to their disadvantage for Butler to be elected governor of the State.

Q. To their disadvantage for what reason; that it would injure the manufacturing interest?-A. That it would injure the manufacturing interest.

Q. You understand that the manufacturing interest depends upon the labor as well as the capital, that there are joined in it, that it takes them both ?-A. It takes them both.

Q. Then the laborer, from their point of view, was just as much interested to defeat General Butler as they were themselves? That was not your opinion but that was the way they felt about it ?-A. That was the way they talked about it.

Q. Do you think it then at all strange that, if they thought this new money theory was going to disturb their business and injure them and you and others, they should speak to you in regard to it ?—A. I certainly think it was perfectly right for them to speak to me.

Q. There was, then, to your mind, nothing wrong or strange in their taking an interest in the last election?-A. No; not if they only took an interest; but if they put threats out, it is another thing.

Q. But you never knew of the threats?-A. I never heard any.

Q. Then you do not think that anything they did was strange or wrong, do you?-A. No, sir.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. How many voters had they in that shop last fall, as near as you can tell?-A. The town has about four hundred. I think that all of two-thirds of that number worked in the shop.

Q. That would be two hundred and fifty or more?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What portion are Democrats?-A. I think there are more Republicans in the shop than Democrats. The farmers around the town are mostly all Democrats.

Q. Still there is quite a large number of Democrats in the shop, and many who, like yourself, have worked there for years?—A. Yes, sir. Q. Aside from the two men from that shop who have testified here, Casey and the other, did you ever hear of anybody being discharged there on account of their votes or politics?-—A. I have in years back; not since 1876.

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. You observed that the witness who has just testified (Warren Casey) stated that he had been discharged for having voted as he did, but did you also observe that in the close of his examination, as Senator Platt drew it out, he stated that he had been taken back to work on condition that he would stop drinking. Now may it not be that in some of these other cases of discharge the true reason of their discharge was some fault of the men themselves and not because of their votes ?-A. It may have been.

Q. And these other allegations may have been circulated by way of excuses by the men themselves? That may have been so often?—A. That may have been so often.

Q. You do not yourself claim that these men, in times past, were discharged on account of having voted the Democratic ticket?—A. No; I do not.

Q. Then you merely testify to rumors that may be either false or

true?-A. Not as far as that is concerned. I say they took more interest in elections in the last two years than ever before.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. Did you go to the polls in 1878?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you stay there any longer than it was necessary for you to stay to vote -A. I did; I peddled tickets all day.

Q. Do you claim a right as a workman to peddle tickets, when you claim that Mr. Butler must not stand at the polls?-A. I give him the same privilege I peddled tickets, but I did not tell any men that they must vote those tickets.

Q. He did not, did he?—A. I never heard him.

Q. He tried to make men think it was their interest to vote Talbot tickets, and you tried to make them think that it was their interest to vote the other way; was not that all that there was of it ?—A. I did, on my side.

Q. And you were about as smart as he was?-A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. You got Butler one hundred and ten votes, did you not?-A. He got one hundred and ten in our town.

By Mr. McDONALD :

Q. What proportion of the votes actually cast were cast by employés of the shop?-A. The town gave 110 for Butler and 145 for Talbot, I think.

Q. How many of those votes came out of the shop?-A. I think 200 or 205 came out of the shop.

Q. Then, while there were nearly as many Democrats as Republicans in the shop, you did not get as many Democratic votes out of the shop as usual?-A. We did not get as many Democratic votes out of the shop as usual.

Q. This influence showed its effect when you came to casting and counting the votes? You then found that persons who had theretofore been Democrats had, under one influence or another, been brought over to vote the other ticket?-A. They voted the other ticket last year.

Q. You were a skilled workman there; you are a temperer. That is a very particular kind of work?-A. Very particular.

Q. It is better for the company to have a good workman there, though a Democrat, than a bad workman if a Republican?-A. Certainly.

Q. The interests of the establishment would not be promoted by continuing bad workmen there, whose incompetency might spoil their trade? -A. If they get a good man in there, who understands the trade, they usually keep him there.

Q. A man who does not understand the business would be likely to destroy a good deal of material, would he not ?-A. Yes, sir; he would destroy a good deal of work; he would not get along. If an ax is not tempered right, it is not good for anything.

Q. If the tempering is not done right, the work is lost ?-A. That is true.

Q. You have heard the story of the fellow who undertook to make an ax, and who, when he found he could not make an ax, thought he would make a hoe, but after he had worked on the hoe, and failed in that, thought he could at least make "a fizz,” and put it in the slack tub ?— A. Yes, sir.

Q. In the last two years you say the agents and officers of these companies have been much more active in politics than they were before, and,

in answer to Senator Blair, you said you thought they were in earnest when they insisted they were right on these political questions. But the workmen sometimes think the other way, do they not?-A. The workmen think the other way.

Q. And they are just as earnest in that as the employers are in their thinking-A. Certainly, they are.

Q. But the employers want to think for them as well as employ them? -A. Some of them seem to talk that way.

Q. You did not believe that the country was going to wreck and ruin if Butler was elected?—A. No; I did not believe it.

Q. And you thought that those who did were very "green" for be lieving it-A. I hardly believe they did think so. I thought they were men who were too smart for that.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. All the temperers are not Democrats, are they?-A. No, sir. Q. The company could get good temperers who vote the Republican ticket, if they chose to get them ?-A. They could not in that town at present.

Q. They could go elsewhere and find them, could they not?—A. I presume they could, although such workmen are pretty scarce just now. Q. Is the pay that Mr. Butler receives in the employ of the company very large?-A. Yes, sir; he has a salary now.

Q. Are you paid so much a day or so much a year?—A. I am paid by the piece.

Q. Mr. Butler is in no sense an agent of the company any more than you are?—A. No; he is an inspector. He has charge of a certain job in the bit-shop.

Q. Are there other inspectors there?-A. Yes.

Q. How many inspectors are there at work for the company?-A. Six or eight.

Q. Are they all Republicans?-A. I believe they are.

Q. They are men who work by the piece and get pretty good pay, do they not?-A. We used to make pretty good pay before they cut us down so hard.

Q. Is any other of the inspectors very active at the polls?-A. Yes; but not so active as Butler.

Q. Butler is a pretty active man any way, is he not?-A. Yes, sir; he is active in his way.

Q. What position does Mr. Moore hold there ?-A. He is the agent of the whole company. His name is Edwin Moore.

BURTON GODDARD, sworn and examined.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question Where do you work?-Answer. For the Douglass Axe Company.

Q. What talk had you with Albert Butler, the foreman there, about voting for General Butler?—A. He talked with me two or three times there in the shop where I worked.

Q. What about?-A. About voting. He wanted me not to vote for General Butler for governor, said that I hadn't ought to.

Q. How close to the election was it when this talk occurred ?—A. It was along two or three weeks previous, and up to the time.

Q. How did you vote?-A. I voted for General Butler.

Q. Was any influence brought to bear upon the help in any way?A. Not upon me.

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Q. Was there upon the rest of the men ?-A. I know of about what has been testified to.

Q. You know that Albert Butler was at the polls?-A. He was.
Q. What was he doing there?-A. He stood right by the selectmen.
Q. Did he see how the men voted?-A. He did; I think he could.
Q. Was Mr. Moore there?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was he doing?-A. I could not say. He was standing around there.

Q. Did you see him distributing tickets?-A. I could not say that I did. Q. Do you think that the vote for Butler was as large as it would have been if this influence had not been brought to bear?-A. I do not think it was.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. How long have you worked there?-A. I have worked there this last time seven years; I worked there previous to that.

Q. Were you born in this country?-A. I am a native of Connecti

cut.

Q. Nobody connected with the company ever undertook to bring any threat to bear upon you?—A. Not in particular.

Q. They wanted you to vote against Butler ?-A. Yes; they said he was a bad man for governor. They thought he would make a bad one. Q. You thought he would make a good one?-A. Yes, sir; I knew him down at New Orleans; I thought he would make a cleaner.

By Mr. McDONALD:

Q. Had you been a soldier under General Butler in New Orleans?—A. I bad.

Q. You knew him personally?—A. I knew him by sight; I have seen him and heard him talk.

Q. So that when this Mr. Butler told you that General Butler was a bad man, you did not believe him?-A. No, I did not; that is, not that he was a bad man for governor. He said that General Butler was dishonest.

Q. Did he say anything about it being the interest of the company for you not to vote for General Butler ?—A. He said something of that kind. He said he thought it would be better for me and others not to vote for him.

Q. How did he say that the company felt toward General Butler ?— A. He said it was their interest to have the help vote for Talbot. Although he said his man was Miner, he should vote for Talbot in order to defeat General Butler.

Q. It was the interest of the company to vote that way?—A. He considered it so, and thought it would be better for me and others so to vote. Q. You did not think so, and voted as you thought best ?—A. I did.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. You did not think that that was any threat that he was going to turn you out?—A. He did not say anything about discharging me.

Q. Not in particular?—A. Not in particular. He talked that way in order to prevent my voting the way that I wished to vote.

Q. When he talked politics you gave him your ideas about Butler ?— A. Some little; I am not much posted on politics any way.

Q. But you told him you knew Batler in New Orleans, and that you thought he would make a good governor ?-A. Yes, sir.

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