and went while the meeting lasted, which was, I think, for half an hour.

Q. Give the politics of the gentlemen who were convened there.-A I think they were all Republicans. I do not think that the position of any gentleman there was doubtful.

Q. Were they employers of labor?-A. I think not exclusively, but that the larger proportion of them. It would be fair for me to say that a large proportion of our people are employers of labor.

Q. Those gentlemen had not been active in the canvass up to that point?-A. No; I do not think that they were up to that point; not quite. I was devoting my attention and time to it, and as they shared our conviction, I wanted them to share our willingness and enthusiasm also.

Q. You had no doubt of their voting right, of their voting the Repub lican ticket?-A. No; I had no doubt about their voting right.

Q. They were not speakers?-A. I should not dare to say they were not speakers. Mr. Walker is a very incisive and effective speaker, as were probably one or two of the others; I think of Walker particularly. But I get the purport of your question. It was a meeting of people who were to exercise their influence as they might.

Q. Was it not the reflex of your purpose to have these gentlemen exercise their influence upon their employés?—A. I should not say it in that way. It was for them to exercise their influence-excuse me for saying it again-exactly as they might have influence upon people who were or were not employed by them. I had charge of the canvass there, and knew that the management of it in the city would react upon the county; that if the city was carried strongly the county was sure to go the same way. It was my favorite theory, one which I endeavored to impress upon everybody, that while some good might be done with drums and trumpets, the great secret of success was personal influence. I even told the boys who were distributing the handbills that if they knew anybody they could influence, to talk with them. These gentlemen were among those whose influence I thought might be secured.

Q. You thought it would be a wise thing to get the influence of the employer upon the employed?-A. I did not say so, Mr. Chairman, but it grows substantially, I think, out of it. If you like, I will tell you what was said at the meeting as near as I can remember it. I said a few words in exactly the same way that I would speak to what we call "the boys." They were to this effect: "You, gentlemen, know what the springs of our influence are; I want you to take an interest in this campaign." I said very little. I have sometimes made what might be called a political speech, but on that occasion I said very little, hardly more than that. Mr. Thayer made some remarks of the character he has stated to you, and I think one or two other gentlemen said a few words, and the meeting adjourned or dissolved (I should think that they had been there half an hour) without any form of action whatso

ever.

Q. Was it assented to that that form of influence was to be exercised so far as they could use it ?-A. I do not think there was any dissent. Q. Was there any dissent to the exercise of such influence as you desired that they should exercise?—A. Such influence as they might exercise. No, I think there was no dissent.

Q. Was the result of the meeting satisfactory to you?-A. It was. After the meeting I said I thought we had done some good work and had made some gentlemen actively interested.

Q. Did they exercise their influence upon others?-A. The result was

that we carried the city of Worcester very handsomely, and I should not be willing to withhold from those gentlemen their tribute. I think that they did, though I do not know that they did.

Q. Did you at any subsequent stage of the canvass attempt to exercise influence upon employers yourself?-A. Oh, I was always exercising influence upon employers.

Q. Did you go to any establishment and address the employers or the operatives?-A. Oh, lots of them. I did that all the time, and so did everybody else. There was hardly anybody of my acquaintance in the city of Worcester who was not seen by me. We should not have carried

the city if I had not done that. I do not wish to disparage the efforts of gentlemen on the other side, but I think that the result was, in some measure, due to my personal influence with all classes of people.

Q. You were in charge of the campaign?—A. I was.

Q. Did you go to the employers and ask them to exercise their influenee upon the employed?-A. No, sir; not upon the employed as such. I asked them to exercise all the influence they could.

Q. Did you go to them to have them call their help together and talk to them in order to have them vote with them?-A. I think I did. I think I suggested it was a very good consideration for them to call their help together and address them on the issues.

Q. To urge them to vote against Butler ?-A. I did not care

Q. They were urged to use their influence for the success of the ticket?-A. Yes, sir; for the success of our ticket. I am not a very sharp politician; I do not think I said much about Butler, yan way, but about the success of our ticket.

Q. Whose establishments were these to which you went to ask for their help?-A. I do not think it would be fair to imply that I did not ask more than one; I think I asked all of them.

Q. At what points in that county did you do this?-A. In the city of Worcester only.

Q. Did you not see employers outside of the city of Worcester and urge them to call their help together?-A. I should say not. I know a great many people in this State, but that was not what I was at—it was not my business.

Q. I wish only to call your attention to specific efforts on your part to urge employers to call their help together. You did that in the city of Worcester?-A. Oh, I did it all the time in the city of Worcester.

Q. Did any of the gentlemen upon whom you called do that?—A. I do not know that they did. I know that I called on Mr. Moen. Mr. Moen is an employer of a large number of men; not of so large a proportion of voters as other employers, but he is an extremely prominent and leading man. He is a leader in a church and has all sorts of influence. I had a talk with him and thought it was a good idea for him to call his men together. So far as any threats were concerned, I need hardly disclaim them in advance of the question at all.

Q. We have not asked you as to the threats.-A. But as far as Mr. Moea is concerned, my impression is that he did not think it would be worth much to do so. My judgment is at this moment that he did not do anything about it, and I do not know that any one else did. I left it substantially with those gentlemen.

Q. Did Mr. Vaill call his men together?-A. I did not see Mr. Vaill after that meeting, but I have learned from a newspaper that he did call his men together.

Q. Did Mr. Loring call his men together?-A. I have no knowledge on the subject.

Q. Did not Mr. Loring refuse to you to have anything to do with the scheme?-A. No; I thought he was extremely civil; I remember calling there. He treated me with much courtesy, and, as I did not hear any more about it, I thought that was the end of it. There was a squib in the newspaper about it. I do not remember what it was, but it was good-natured enough, and I did not find any fault with it. I do not know that he did anything about it; but that he was a friend of our ticket I knew.

Q. What is your knowledge as to what was the proportion of voters in these manufacturing establishments in your city to the whole number of employés ?-A. I cannot give you an opinion upon that in such a way as I would like to give it. I think that the voters in Mr. Moen's establishment, which is one of the largest in our city, amount to something like thirty per cent. of the entire number of persons employed.

Q. What were their political proclivities at the last fall election?-A. I cannot answer that.

Q. Was there any material difference between the vote of the city of Worcester at the election of November, 1877, and that at the election of 1878 ?—A. We carried the city of Worcester in 1877 with about the same majority that we had in 1878. I was chairman of the city committee then, also.

Q. Was the vote as large in 1877-A. I do not remember. The difference was not enough to impress itself upon my mind. I know that at our meeting at Mechanics' Hall, on the night before the election, I predicted that the city would be carried by 500 majority, and the vote polled at both elections, I think, did not vary much from that.

Q. What is your profession ?-A. I am a lawyer. I do not practice much.

By Mr. DcDONALD :

Q. All of these gentlemen who were invited by you to your office to meet Mr. Thayer were Republicans?-A. I think they were. I did not mean to have anybody present but Republicans.

Q. Were any of them employés in any of the manufacturing establishments there?-A. I think not.

Q. You did not invite any of the employés ?-A. I think not. Q. So far as any persons present at that meeting were connected with the manufacturing establishments, they were employers or persons having to some extent control of the establishments?-A. Yes; I do not think that I asked any laboring people to come to that meeting. However, there may have been some superintendents there. I think, so far as your question is concerned, I asked the superintendent of the Washburne & Moen Manufacturing Company to attend; but generally speaking, it was the employers who were to be there.

Q. Was it not therefore an employers' meeting exclusively ?-A. I should think so. I do not think we do it any injustice by calling it such, though there were men there who did not employ any laborers.

Q. It was made up generally of those who were employing laborers or superintending laborers?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. You say that Mr. Walker was a pretty good stump speaker. Had he been in the habit of making speeches in political canvasses before that time?-A. I do not remember whether he had been or not, but I think that he had. Mr. Walker is a man of great method and earnestness. He worked up an elaborate argument and published it; that was somewhat earlier; and he began afterwards to make a few speeches.

Q. Did he make those speeches in Worcester ?-A. I got up a meet

ing for him in Worcester. It was almost the last meeting of the campaign. I do not remember where he had spoken, but I suppose it was in the towns about Worcester or at points a little more remote. Mr. Walker is not known as a popular speaker, but he was a man who had worked up a speech for this campaign, and it was one that I thought a very good one.

Q. In what business is he engaged?-A. He is a proprietor of a very successful boot factory-a man of great ability in his business.

Q. Does he employ many hands?-A. I understand that they do not employ as many hands in their business as other establishments in the same business, because they have machinery. I suppose it may be said that he did not employ many hands in the sense that Mr. Moen employs hands. I suppose that Mr. Walker employs men by the score where Mr. Moen employs them by the hundred.

Q. Of what firm is Mr. Moen?-A. He is of the Washburne & Moen Manufacturing Company. They make ware and have about the largest works of the kind in the country.

Q. Do they employ a large number of men?-A. They do.

Q. About what number had they last year at the time of the election?— A. If I was held to the rules of evidence I would answer that I did not know. I have a very clear impression that they employed 2,500 men, of whom eight or nine hundred were voters. I hope you will not hold me very strictly to the figures, because I give them as my impression merely.

Q. They all lived in Worcester and voted there?-A. Yes; I do not know that they have any men from outside of Worcester.

Q. You say that Mr. Moen was an active member of a church?-A. Yes, he is a leading member of the Calvinistic Orthodox church there. Q. It has a very large membership there!-A. I cannot say certainly, but I think they have three or four churches there, maybe more.

Q. In inviting Mr. Moen to this conference, you had in view his connection with the religious as well as the lay interest?-A. Generally, as a prominent citizen and as one prominent in a religious way, I wanted Mr. Moen there and wanted his influence.

Q. You wanted to combine the power militant with the power triumphant?—A. I did, Mr. Senator; that was exactly what I wanted to do, and it proved to be "the triumphant" in the end. I wanted to carry the city of Worcester triumphantly, and, although the result was very close, it was accomplished.

Q. Were you looking the gift horse very closely in the month?-A. Do you mean that I would not have looked particularly at methods? I would not have done anything but what was fair.

Q. But if you knew that something unfair was going on, would you have stopped it?—A. Oh, I would not have had anything to do with it. Q. But if Mr. Moen, that year, had got a larger Republican vote out of his establishment than usual, you would not have made any question as to the means he used?—A. Oh, I would not as to a man like Mr. Moen. Q. And if, in his church operations, he had reached out a little farther than had been customary after the carnal minded who were inclined to go for Butler and brought them in, you would not have thought it proper to question that?-A. I do not know that that is a very fair question for you to put, and I ought to say, in answer, that he is a gentleman of too high a character to be suspected.

Q. Oh, I have no doubt of that.-A. And nothing at that meeting was suggested that would have implied that we wanted anything done that was not fair.

A. But you thought that he could use more convincing arguments with his employés than a stranger could?-A. Yes, I think I can say that. I think that that is fair.

Q. And you wanted the fact brought to his attention prominently that it was quite necessary for him to use all his influence morally and politically? A. Yes, I think I did. I do not think that that is a bad statement of it, and I do not think but what it was the right thing for us to do.

Q. When you went to these manufacturing establishments to address political meetings, had you advised the proprietors that you were coming?--A. I have not made myself clear. I did not go to address any political meetings at the manufactories.

Mr. PLATT (to Mr. McDonald). I think you have misunderstood the witness.

The WITNESS. I have addressed political meetings frequently, but not at the manufacturing establishments. You have got a wrong idea, as I have not made myself clear. I think that what I said in answer to the chairman's inquiry was, that I asked some of these gentlemen whether it would not be a good thing to call their hands or employés together and have it set forth by arguments how the issues of the campaign stood, because I was afraid we could not get everybody down to attend the meetings. Finally we got up such a stir there that we got the people to attend the meetings, and they got the views that we wanted them to get. Q. They received the light from some quarter that you wanted them to have?-A. We finally got them roused up, and everybody else, and we swept the city.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. If I understand you, your idea was that it was just as legitimate for an employer to call his people together and address arguments to them, as it was for General Butler and Dennis Kearney to address them?—A. Oh, entirely. I think that is perfectly fair. I have no knowledge that anybody did. I put the question to two or three, but do not know that anybody did.

Q. But you thought it was proper that they should?-A. I think it was a proper subject of inquiry whether it would not be a good plan. But manufacturers, it seems to me, are extremely sensitive about exercising any influence, and I do not think that these gentlemen did a great deal anyway. There was a great deal of good nature in the campaign, and I think we got a great many to go with us because the campaign was conducted so good-naturedly.

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. Did you know of any case of intimidation, bulldozing, or undue influence of employers upon their laborers?-A. I did not. I never knew of any. I never suspected any. I do not think there was any.

Q. Either in Worcester or any part of the State?-A. I do not know much as to the State outside of Worcester. I began to make speeches at a distance from there, but I found that I had to stay in Worcester all the time, as it was my duty to do, in order to carry that city, and that we had got to carry it. Therefore, I knew nothing of what happened outside but from what I saw in the papers.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. What was the color of the ticket that was used by the Republicans in Worcester?-A. It was a white ticket. I did not attend to the