1. adapted in your opinion, for restraining the establishment of poor-rates in Scotland, and for abolishing them where already established?-I should certainly think that some restraint being placed on the power at present exercised by the sheriff, would be one efficient means of preventing the establishment of poorrates, where they have not yet been put in operation, and of restraining the further increase of them where they have been established. But I would chiefly rely on the encouragement held out for the poor to support them selves. pelling the heritors to assess them selves for the support of the indigent. He told me, that the poor in his parish had been receiving relief from a voluntary assessment, but that he understood that this was only to last for one year; and that there was a deputation of the poor of that parish who were to come to my house in a day or two for the purpose of inquiring into the law on the subject, that they might compel the heritors to continue their assessment. I told him that I conceived poor-rates had a very injurious tendency, and that I certainly would not assist him in any method that might serve to introduce them. We know how much the public What I said to him had the effect, are indebted to you on the subI presume, of preventing the de- ject of banks for savings, and we putation which he mentioned, wish to know from your expe from waiting upon me, for I heard rience in the operation of them, no more of it. Now I am per- whether it is your opinion that suaded, that this would not have they are likely to be very efficient happened at any time before the as the means of improving the years of distress, and it was to me condition of the poor ?-I cera very melancholy proof of the tainly conceive that they are. A demoralizing influence even of very general interest has been exvoluntary assessments. I will cited among the lower classes in state to the committee another favour of these establishments; reason why the poor, as I con- and desire, amounting sometimes ceive, are beginning to be de- to a painful anxiety, now exists sirous of legal assessments. I among them, of laying up a porallude to the discussion which tion of their earnings.. has taken place on the poor laws. The poor were not aware that they possessed any right to deinand relief from the heritors, until very lately. You are aware that I speak only of the particular district to which I belong. The discussion of the subject has made them acquainted with the practice in other parts of the country with regard to legal assessments,... What are the means best Among the lower orders?. Ves; and the upper classes of the community have greatly contributed by their judicious encou ragement to foster this laudable spirit. These establishments have a manifest tendency to increase habits of industry, economy, and sobriety., Are there any other means of a similar nature which you con ceive to be useful, for giving the lower lower orders facilities in providing for their own support?-I conceive friendly societies, in some respects, even of superior advantage to the lower orders. Do you conceive that the establishment of parochial schools in Scotland, has had any influence in restraining the introduction of the poor-rates?-I do; the education of the lower orders has given a manly spirit to that class of society. They feel their own powers, are become high minded and independent, and are unwilling to subsist upon charity. Whilst at the same time, sensible of the advantages of subordination, they are loyal, submissive to lawful authority, and averse from faction and turbulence. One undoubted consequence of the Scotch system of education is, to excite and foster a spirit of enterprise, for which the inhabitants of that country are, I believe, universally considered as remarkable. This spirit has induced a number of young persons to emigrate to foreign parts, and by this means to leave the population not so injuriously abundant as it would otherwise have been. State, if you please, the nature of your parochial school establishment, and the manner in which it is conducted?—These seminaries are not free schools, as they have been frequently considered by persons not acquainted with the subject; they constitute an establishment connected with the ecclesiastical institutions of the country; the landed proprietors are bound to give a certain salary to the parochial school-master; this salary does not in any instance amount to more than 227., or thereabouts, a year; this at least is the maximum appointed by the last act of parliament; this sum is not enough for the support of the schoolmaster, but it is sufficient when added to the schoolwages; whilst these school-wages are so low, that the poorer classes of the people are enabled to get their children educated. The allowances of school-wages are appointed by the presbytery. In my parish, where I believe the wages are nearly the average of these rates throughout Scotland, 2s. a quarter is charged for teaching reading; 2s. 6d. for reading and writing; 3s. 6d. for arithmetic, and 5s. for the learned languages, all per quarter. What part do the clergy of Scotland take in the instruction of the lower orders, independently of their instructions in the pulpit? They superintend the schoolmaster in the performance of his duty, and visit the school, at least once a year, along with a committee of the presbytery; and they regularly catechize the inhabitants of the parish once a year, examining them in the principles of religion. Is that duty optional, or is it required?-It is required, and. I believe is almost universally performed. The clergy of Scotland are peculiarly efficient, from the circumstance of their constant residence in their own parish, and from the intimate and endearing union which generally subsists between them and their people. Being all on a footing of perfect equality, they have no unattained object of ambition to distract their attention from the important labours of their profession. They have seldom any prospect of changing their living; and they find it their interest to establish their character and respectability, by a diligent discharge of their various duties in the place where they are established for life. Independent of religious motives, therefore, they have powerful secular inducements to activity and zeal. Is there a superabundant population in the district of Scotland in which you reside?-I do not think there is a superabundant population in the particular parish to which I belong; nor, indeed, in any of the neighbouring districts where poor-rates are not established. Is it your opinion, from your knowledge of the habits of the lower orders, as well as their feelings, that the establishment and organization of a system by which facilities might be held out to emigration, would be attended with good effects, or the contrary-I certainly think that the establishment of such a system would have a tendency to prevent the introduction of the poor-rates, as well as to diminish their operation where they are established. You have said, that the poor are maintained mostly by their relations; have you many families in your district who have none but poor connexions? Yes, there are many, and yet they contrive to support each other. I may be permitted to mention an instance which might show the Committee better perhaps, than in any other way, the kind of feeling which prevails among our lower classes. Several years ago, a poor man got into difficulties, his son, who was a weaver, finding that he had no means of immediately raising a sum of money for the relief of his father's family by his trade, enlisted in the mili tia for the express purpose of obtaining the bounty of 20%., and thus affording the requisite aid. After paying his father's debts, there was still a small reversion, this he placed in the parish bank, and it lay there at interest until he was discharged from the militia, when he drew it out for the purpose of purchasing a loom, with which he now supports himself, and assists in maintaining his father's family; and I may add, that this industrious young man continues to pay into the saving bank, any little savings he may make above what is necessary the purposes I have mentioned. Many similar instances have occurred to my observation; and I believe I may say, that the example of this young man is only such as would have been followed, in similar circumstances, by a great many individuals of the lower classes in Scotland. William John Burchell, esq. called in; and examined. for You have been there as a trateller? Yes, only as a traveller; not as a resident, except during my stay at Cape Town, previous to setting out for the interior, and on my return waiting for a passage. Have you visited most parts of the colony?-I have passed through it in one direction, from Cape Town to its northern boundary; and on my return I travelled along the eastern boundary, and thence along the southern coast to Cape Town. The committee will thank you for any information you can give them with respect to the capability of the colony to employ, profitably, any considerable number of labourers emigrating from this country?-In the first place, with respect only to the colony, it should be known, that a very great extent of country is unoc cupied, which arises from the manner in which the Dutch government has made their grants of land, allowing each settler or farmer to take up his station at those places where there are springs of water; so that it arises from that, that all those interme. diate parts of the colony, where there are no very good springs of water, are at present unoccupied; and that surface of the colony may at a rough guess be estimated at more than one half of the surface of the whole colony. I do not mean to speak exactly, only by way of giving an idea. How far from Cape Town do you suppose the most distant set tlement at present to be?-About 500 miles or more by the road; so that the quantity of land un occupied would receive a great number of emigrants, were they to be employed only in agriculture. But with a view to the formation of one entire settlement of emigrants alone, there remains on the eastern part of the colony a district named Albany, which forms part of the eastern boundary of the colony, which was in the year 1815, and is I believe at present unoccupied by any settlers; and is the most beautiful, and probably the most productive part of Cape colony; it is of sufficient extent to receive a population of emigrants of several thousand persons. You think that upon the whole the most eligible spot? -I do. Is it supplied with pasture?Very well; the manner in which it happens so fine a country is unoccupied, is, that the Caffrees had a good many years ago under the Dutch government, made irruptions into the colony, and driven the inhabitants away; so that the Dutch have forfeited their tenures, and they have become open to fresh settlers. The Caffrees are not very desirable neighbours, and they are very near this spot?—I am aware of that, but I do not conceive that to be any discouragement. State your reason for that opinion?-I think the Caffrees are only a predatory race of men, and their only object is not that of destroying their neighbours, but robbing them of their cattle; and if the population of that part of the colony was as great as the country would admit of, I believe the Caffrees would not venture to to commit their robberies in such a country. Has it not been necessary, in point of fact, to keep up a constant force to repel their attacks? -It has been done hitherto, and I believe it is now done. Would the operation of cultivating this land be a tedious one? -Not the least; no more than breaking up the land. Would it make an early return? Yes, the first year, or the se cond at furthest. Within how many months? Within seven months from ploughing and putting the corn Are there any woods to be cleared in Albany? There are small woods, or rather groves, which it would be better to leave for wood. What materials would the country supply, or what would be requisite to send there to wards erecting buildings?-Nothing but iron work. There is timber sufficient? Yes, in the colony; all the country which is designated the Antinoqua and Zilzikama, would supply timber for every purpose. These are the unoccupied lands? They are the woods belonging to government, where a supply of timber could be drawn; but they are not in the district of Albany. Would the iron work or any other materials be easily landed at Algoa Bay?—Yes. Is there from Algoa Bay a tolerable road to Albany?—Yes; the same sort of road as there is all over the colony. The facility of emigrants building houses there, and making shelter for themselves, is exceedingly great; for in building the walls of a house they make them with mud alone; and it is not easy to be credited by those who have not seen them, how excellent and strong a wall is made by those means. T Is there no stone?—Yes; but it is seldom used on account of the labour it requires. Following the method they have of building in the country; they make walls with mud, as good as they are made with bricks in this country, and better than they are built with common bricks. What would be the vent for the surplus produce of the colony formed there ?-By ships coming to Algoa Bay to receive it there, if it was produce that might be exported, or afterwards sent by the coast to Cape Town, where it would take the same chance as all other produce sent there. What do you apprehend the productions would be chiefly? Corn, wine, hides, ivory, and ostrich feathers. Is the pasturage good?—The district of Albany is very fine pasture country. Do you think tobacco would be an article of export ?-Yes, I think it would succeed extremely well, |