Mr. WILSON. I believe, Senator, that I can assure you we will be prepared to discuss those fully in executive session, as to the details of the purposes for which the funds are requested.

Senator JOHNSON. Do you care to say now whether the amounts as recommended by the Bureau of the Budget are less than the amounts which you recommended?

Mr. WILSON. Well, the funds which the Commission acquired when it took over on January 1, derived initially from transfers of funds previously appropriated to the War Department for this activity. The unobligated and unexpended balances of those prior year appropriations were transferred in part to the Commission when it took over responsibility for this enterprise on the 1st of January.

There are some residual balances which will be transferred in the near future. Those are the funds which the Commission has to start with.

As to the 1948 Budget, the amount requested is 500 million, as appears in the Budget of the President of the United States. That is divided into two categories, 250 million dollars for expenditure in the fiscal year '48, and 250 million dollars for contract obligations during that year, but for expenditure in later years.

Senator JOHNSON. Well, that is as much as you care to say now? Mr. WILSON. I think so.

Senator KNOWLAND. Under that section does the operation of the town of Oak Ridge, for instance, come?

Mr. WILSON. The town of Oak Ridge comes under, at the present time, the manager of field operations.

Senator KNOWLAND. Who is that again?

Mr. WILSON. The manager of field operations today is Colonel Kirkpatrick, until January 31; on January 1 Colonel Nichols became acting deputy general manager for the enterprise, and at the request of the Secretary of War, for his early return for important assignment within the War Department, we have planned a change, on February 1, when Mr. Williams, who will later become Director of the Division of Production, and who is fully familiar with the entire operation of this enterprise, becomes manager of field operations.

There is a centralized administrative group at Oak Ridge. We are studying the possibilities of decentralizing to perhaps five major regions of the country much of the administrative operation of the Commission.

And that is under study at the present time.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wilson, does the National Research Foundation derive its operating funds from the sale of its products to the country, or is it an endowed institution?

Mr. WILSON. The National Research Corp. is a private, profitmaking at times-corporation.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean at times it makes profits?
Mr. WILSON. At times it makes profits.

At times it makes losses.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not an endowed institution?
Mr. WILSON. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions of Mr. Wilson? That will be all for the present, Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, and we will expect to talk to you a little later in the executive session, and we may perhaps have some questions at a later date in open session. We are not certain about that yet. Thank you very much.

The next meeting of the committee in open session will be tomorrow morning at 10:30, in this room.

At that time, Mr. John Hancock, who has been closely associated with the Baruch report, and the Baruch activities, will be first on the stand as a witness.

Following that, if we conclude with Mr. Hancock, Mr. Lilienthal, under arrangements we made some days ago, will again take the stand and Senator McKellar would like to discuss the matter of atomic energy and other phases of this with Mr. Lilienthal.

The session tomorrow, however, will end at 12 o'clock.

On Monday, we have scheduled Mr. Bernard M. Baruch, who will testify on his views in connection with this matter, at 10:30 Monday morning. And I am not certain whether meeting Monday morning will be in this room or not. It will depend entirely upon the convenience of the Finance Committee. But that announcement will be ready, I think, tomorrow morning.

This meeting is now adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10:30. (Whereupon, at 12:14 p. m., the committee recessed until tomorrow, Friday, January 31, 1947, at 10:30 a. m.)

CONFIRMATION OF ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION

AND GENERAL MANAGER

FRIDAY, JANUARY 31, 1947

UNITED STATES SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON ATOMIC ENERGY,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10:30 a. m., pursuant to adjournment, in room 312, Senate Office Building, Senator Bourke B. Hickenlooper (chairman), presiding.

Present: Senators Hickenlooper (chairman), Vandenberg, Knowland, Bricker, McMahon, and Johnson.

Present also: Senator McKellar and Representative Patterson.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order, please.

The first witness this morning will be Mr. John M. Hancock, of New York City. Mr. Hancock?

Mr. HANCOCK. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you swear the testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Mr. HANCOCK. I do, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you be seated, Mr. Hancock?

TESTIMONY OF JOHN M. HANCOCK, OF NEW YORK CITY

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to say that Mr. Hancock has been extensively associated with and has been a coworker of Mr. Bernard M. Baruch for a number of years on economic matters; and, especially in the last year, on matters involving atomic energy and its disposition. It was my desire and the committee's desire to have both Mr. Baruch and Mr. Hancock here on the same day, so that they could mutually give their ideas with some continuity. The matter was submitted to them.

Mr. Hancock, who has been away from his own business for a good many months, devoting his time to public activity, has some commitments for the next 2 or 3 weeks that would make it impossible for him to appear; and this morning is the only time that he could come.

Mr. Baruch thought that he would prefer not to appear this week, and asked if his appearance could be postponed until next Monday morning.

We are delighted to have the benefit of your views, Mr. Hancock, and so far as I am concerned I feel that you have had a wealth of experience in this field, and, as my invitation to you indicated, the committee will be delighted to have the benefit of your views in connection with the present situation in atomic energy, particularly domestically, and o: ything you want to say about the problems immediately before this committee.

98078-47-6

Senator MCKELLAR. Mr. Chairman, before he begins, I was informed by the committee that I was to cross-examine Mr. Lilienthal this morning.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right, sir. I told you that Mr. Hancock would be the first witness, and after Mr. Hancock had completed his testimony, Mr. Lilienthal will again take the stand.

Senator MCKELLAR. All right.

The CHAIRMAN. I will take the liberty, Mr. Hancock, of putting in a résumé of your past activities just before your testimony is recorded. And that indicates a wide range of business and industrial experience all of your mature life.

I shall not recite all of the important business enterprises with which you have been associated, but that will appear in the record: (The résumé referred to is as follows:)

JOHN M. HANCOCK

Industrial banker: b. Emerado, N. D. February 2, 1883; s. Henry and Isabella (Irvine) H.; A. B.; U. of N. D., 1903, LL. D., 1932; m. Ida M. Buckingham, June 23, 1904; children-Ruth Laura, Ralph Henry (dec.). Partner Lehman Bros.; vp. Jewel Tea Co., 1919-22, Pres. 1922-24, Chmn. bd. 1924-42, chairman of executive committee since 1942; dir. Brunswick-Balke-Collender Co., U. S. Playing Card Co., chmn. exec. com. Flinkote Co., Inc., Kroger Grocer & Baking Co.; dir. Underwood Corp., Nat. Surety Corp., Internat. Silver Co., Sears, Roebuck & Co., American Stores Co., Florsheim Shoe Co., A Stein & Co., Jewel Tea Co., Bond Stores, Inc., S. H. Kress & Co., National Surety Marine Insurance Corp., Van Raalte Co., W. T. Grant Co., The Lehman Corp., Kimberly-Clark Corp., American Export Lines, Inc. Mem. War Resources Bd., 1939; associate with B. M. Baruch in rubber survey, 1942; adv. unit, Office War Mobilization for War and Post-war Adjustment Policies, 1943-Sept. 1944. In charge Navy purchasing comdr. Supply Corps, U. S. Navy, 1914-19; awarded Navy Cross. Republican. Baptist. Home: Scarsdale, N. Y. Office: 1 William Street, New York 4, N. Y.

The CHAIRMAN. There is one thing that I would like to make clear at this time. I believe that prior to World War I you were a naval officer, were you not?

Mr. HANCOCK. Yes, sir; for 15%1⁄2 years. I resigned at the end of World War I.

The CHAIRMAN. You resigned at the end of World War I?

Mr. HANCOCK. Yes, sir. Shortly after; when all our contracts were settled.

The CHAIRMAN. And that experience gives you, in addition to business experience, a view from the military standpoint?

Mr. HANCOCK. I think so.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hancock, would you outline to the committee, please, your activities in connection with the atomic energy problems that have sprung up in the last year or so? That is, you may use your own words in giving any statement that you care to give, or anything of that kind.

Mr. HANCOCK. I have no prepared statement; and, without trying to be exact on dates, I would think about the middle of February a year ago there was discussion about Mr. Baruch's possibly becoming the United States delegate to the United Nations Atomic Energy Commission.

At that time, and long before the appointment, we began reading all that was available in the way of either scientific reports or 1eports from the Manhattan project.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand that you and Mr. Baruch have worked together on other public economic questions in the past.

Mr. HANCOCK. That is right. We have been hobbyists, I think you might say. Our hobby has been military preparedness, for about 30 years. We have both been interested in all the planning activities in Washington, including Army War College, the Industrial College for the Armed Services, and so on, and we have both been in that field primarily in the start of this latest war.

I think our first activity was in the summer of '42, in the rubber survey; and then, in the following year, we were busy on general policies of demobilization, war and postwar adjustment.

On

Then this next main job came-this one of a year ago now. that atomic energy work, after Mr. Baruch was appointed, he asked me to be his associate in the work, and we endeavored to organize a staff, organize procedure, develop what we thought the United States plan should be.

After developing it, we brought it to Secretary Byrnes and the President. Mr. Baruch also appeared before Senator McMahon's committee, if I recall correctly, and discussed it quite a bit before the United States plan of 1946 was brought forth.

And that is bere in the record. Since then I have carried on in Mr. Baruch's stead as the member on several committees who have been working on the various aspects of the problems.

The CHAIRMAN. Our immediate problem, the problem of the moment, is of course, at this time the question of the confirmation of the Presidential appointees to the Commission. And our further immediate problems, of course, with this committee, involve the domestic handling of atomic energy and the enlargement of the science and its progressive development.

Now, in connection with those responsibilities in that field, the committee is interested in your views on the over-all method of enlarging this atomic-energy field domestically, at least at first.

Do you have any views as to what our general policies might be in the domestic field in the future?

Senator MCMAHON. Mr. Chairman, I would be much interested in hearing Mr. Hancock on that, but we are right now up against these nominations. And if he has any views on the nominees that are here, I would prefer to hear them first.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. If you have any views on the Presidential nominees, including the General Manager-five nominees and the General Manager-we would be glad to receive those.

Mr. HANCOCK. As to Mr. Lilienthal, we have had very little work closely together. I have known of his work. I know only the general reputation he has as an administrator, and I cannot speak as to that generally, but only as to the field in which I have had occasion to contact him.

Since the Lilienthal report was submitted, I have had many discussions with him. I found, when we first had contact, he and I differed, I think, on a number of points. And I think most of us have undergone a revolution in thinking since.

To be concrete-and I am only speaking from memory, not having brought any records about it-I think the Lilienthal report contemplated that the international organization, the international control organization, should own all uranium ore. With that view, I am not in accord. My belief is that Mr. Lilienthal has changed his view since.