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The second section is that: Until Congress declares by joint resolution that effective and enforceable international safeguards against the use of atomic energy for destructive purposes bave been established, there shall be no exchange of information with other nations with respect to the use of atomic energy for industrial purposesto say nothing of war purposes.

Senator MCKELLAR. It does not say war purposes. The war side of the situation is turned over to the Commission. The industrial is kept by the United States. That is the difference.

The CHAIRMAN. No; the law controls that. This is a supplement. No, Senator; your statements are completely and utterly inaccurate on that phase of it. The law is clear that they cannot even turn over industrial information until the Congress acts.

And I think that ought to be cleared up and accurate assumptions ought to be made. Any examination of this law by anybody that will read it will prove that.

And I resent the insinuations that this law permits this Commission or anybody else until Congress acts, to turn over any information about industrial or war uses of this. That is what the law says.

Senator McKELLAR. I am not seeking to have a row with the Chairman at all. I just say that I differ with him, and that is all there is in it. He cannot take exception to it or get angry about it. I hope he will not.

The CHAIRMAN. If I spoke a little heatedly, I am sorry, Senator, but I think the law is so clear that anybody reading it with any kind of a desire to find out what it provides, is bound to come to that conclusion that I stated.

Senator McKELLAR. Yes, sir. Well, I am not going to keep this witness any longer. I think this witness has demonstrated that he has known very little about this situation that we have here, if he will let me say it.

Mr. WINNE. I am sorry to leave you with that impression, Senator.
The CHAIRMAN. That is all. I thank you, Mr. Winne.
Mr. WINNE. Thank you, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will meet in the morning at 10:30 a. m. in the Finance Committee room of the Senate.

(Whereupon, at 6:15 p. m., the committee recessed until 10:30 a. m., Wednesday, February 19, 1947.)





Washington, D.C. The committee met at 10:30 a. m., pursuant to adjournment, in room 312, Senate Office Building, Senator Bourke B. Hickenlooper (chairman), presiding:

Present: Senators Hickenlooper (chairman), Vandenberg, Knowland, Bricker, McMahon, and Connally.

Present also: Senators McKellar, Lucas, and Sparkman; Representative Patterson. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order, please. Is Mr. Bell, United States Marshal Bell here? Mr. BELL. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you solemnly swear that the testimoliy you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Mr. BELL. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Will you be seated please, Mr. Bell? Will you identify yourself, please! TESTIMONY OF HENRY R. BELL, UNITED STATES MARSHAL,

EASTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE, KNOXVILLE, TENN. Mr. BELL. I am Henry R. Bell. The CHAIRMAN. And your occupation? Mr. BELL. United States marshal, eastern district of Tennessee.

The CHAIRMAN. And how long have you been a United States marshal, Mr. Bell? Mr. Bell. Approximately 10 years. The CHAIRMAN. You were requested by Senator McKellar, and I am not familiar with the testimony that you are to give, so I will ask Senator McKellar to proceed. Senator McKELLAR. All right, sir.

You have already given your full name and your residence and occupation, I believe.

Mr. BELL. Yes, sir. Senator McKELLAR. Mr. Bell, do you know Mr. Robert B. Barker, a former investigator of the Dies committee?

Mr. BELL. I do.
Senator McKELLAR. How long have you known him?

Mr. BELL. Oh, I would say since I have been in the service.

Senator McKELLAR. Did he come to your office in the Federal Building in Knoxville, Tenn., sometime in May 1940, with 25 or 30 subpenas to be served on witnesses to appear in Washington before the Dies committee?

Mr. Bell. I don't remember the exact date, but somewhere in that neighborhood he did, yes, sir.

Senator McKELLAR. Did you, in accordance with a circular letter from the Attorney General to all United States marshals, instructing them to serve processes promptly for committees of the House and Senate, accept these subpenas, and tell Mr. Barker you would attempt to serve them?

Mr. BELL. I did.

Senator MCKELLAR. Do you recall now the names of any of the persons named in the subpenas?

Mr. BELL. No; I could not say definitely the names, because it has been so long, and I have had so many processes.

Senator MCKELLAR. Do you recall how many, or about how many, were for employees of the TVA, to be served on employees of the TVA?

Mr. Bell. I couldn't say definitely. I remember Mr. Barker told me that there were quite a number of them.

Senator McKELLAR. Now, Mr. Barker left your office and went away, and you found out later, before the papers had been served, that Mr. Barker had returned to your office! : Mr. BELL. Yes, sir; he did return to my office.

Senator McKELLAR. What did Mr. Barker say to you then, in substance?

Mr. Bell. He asked me if I had served the papers. I said, “Well, I have turned them over to the deputy that dockets all subpenas, and I could not say definitely wliether they have been served or not.”

I gave him the names of the deputies, and asked him to go to that office and confer with them, which he did, and he came back and said they had not been served yet.

Senator MCKELLAR. Did Mr. Barker inform you that he had received a long-distance telephone call from Congressman Martin Dies, instructing him to withdraw all subpenas of TVA employees but to have subpenas served on all other witnesses?

Mr. BELL. I don't recall the exact wording, but it was something similar to that.

The CHAIRMAN. May I have the last question and answer again?

Senator McKELLAR. Did Mr. Barker inform you that he had received a long-distance telephone call from Congressman Martin Dies instructing him to withdraw all subpenas from TVA employees but to have subpenas served on all the other witnesses ?

Mr. BELL. The best of my knowledge is that he said he had got a message. I don't remember whether he said it was a telephone message, or what, but anyway he said not to serve them on TVA employees but to go on with the other witnesses.

I said: “You pick them out."

Senator McKELLAR. Did you and your deputies serve them on the other witnesses?

Mr. BELL. The deputies did; yes, sir.

Senator McKELLAR. Did Mr. Barker come back to your office sometime in July and bring to you additional subpenas, six or eight in number to be served on employees of the TVA to appear before the congressional Starnes committee in Chattanooga on July 17, 1940?

Mr. BELL. I don't remember the date, but he came back and brought approximately that many subpenas. Senator MCKELLAR. It was about that time? Mr. BELL. Yes, sir; it was.

Senator MCKELLAR. Tell the committee in your own words, what happened.

Mr. BELL. Well, he came in and said, as well as I remember, somewhere along about 10 o`clock in the morning—he asked to come into my office, told who he was, and came on in. He said: “I want to get these subpenas served today. It is very imperative that we get service on them today."

I said: "Well, Bob, you know I will be glad to do the best I can on that. It is getting on in the morning now, and it will probably be hard to get them all served today." He said: "How many deputies will you assign to it?" I said: "I will assign you two." So we got busy on the papers, and I sent the deputies over to the TVA offices. I told them to go to information first and ascertain where the diffrent people were located with the TVA, and they diil, and they found out, I think, that there were two or three of them located in Chattanooga. The remainder of them were supposed to have been residents of Knoxville, so they then started to contact these individuals to serve the subpenas on them, and for some reason or other the people there at the TVA would not let them in. They told who they were, of course, and identified themselves, and they got in touch with me.

The CHAIRMAN. Who in TVA would not let them in?

Mr. BELL. I could not say, Mr. Chairman, whether it was the guards or not. They said the guards and the supervisors would not let them in.

Senator MCKELLAR. What else happened?

Mr. BELL. So I said: "Well, come on down here and talk it over with me."

So they did. And I said: “Well, I had better get in touch with Mr. Neil Bass up there at the TVA and see what he can do to aid us in this matter."

So I called Mr. Bass, and as well as I remember he was not in and I told his secretary what was happening. She said: “Well, we have got instructions not to do anything about these matters."

I said: "Well, that is very funny; a Government agency not cooperating with an investigating committee of Congress. I can't under stand it."

So then I turned to Bob. Barker had come back to my office in the meantime. That along about, I guess, 4 o'clock in the afternoon, 3 or 4, in that neighborhood, and I told Mr. Barker what had been said. And I said: "I am going to call Mr. Pope, Director Pope."

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