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Senator MCKELLAR. What was that date?
Senator MCKELLAR. What was the date of that transaction when you tried to have Hart indicted for perjury?
Mr. Barker. And this woman for contempt?
Senator Russell. What reason did Starnes give for refusing to sign this citation?
Vr. BARKER. Well, I don't think he gave any. I think he just didn't sign it.
Senator RUSSELL. You didn't discuss it with him?
Mr. BARKER. Well, I took them to him. I took it to his office. His office was 1505 of the New House Office Building, and I took them over there to him, and I don't think he gave me any reason for not signing those papers. But he would not sign them. Those papers should be in the files.
Senator RUSSELL. You told him what they were?
Mr. BARKER. It was a Presidential election that year, and we talked about the election. Of course, that was a Democratic committee, you understand, Senator, and I was the only Republican on the committee. And I was put on there by
Senator RussELL. Do you think that this Dies committee was conducted to help the National Democratic Party?
Mr. BARKER. No; I don't think that has been true at all. I think Dies has been accused to the contrary. Dies has been accused several times of trying to elect Republicans in the House by exposing this communism in the New Deal here in Washington, and Communists on the Government pay rolls.
Senator RUSSELL. Why did politics have anything to do with your discussion with Starnes, then? How did politics get into it?
Mr. BARKER. I don't think there was any discussion of politics in connection with that. I don't mean to infer that at all. I think we were more interested in something that happened currently in the Presidential race that year. That was the year that Wendell Willkie was a candidate against Mr. Roosevelt.
Senator RussELL. You were not trying to persuade Mr. Starnes to vote for Mr. Willkie, were you?
Mr. BARKER. No; certainly not.
Senator McKELLAR. Is there anything else that you wish to bring before the committee?
Mr. BARKER. Well, now, I consulted with another Member of Congress at the time I was making the investigation of communism in the TVA. I believe I saw him before I went to Knoxville. That is Representative Charles A. Wolverton, Republican, of Camden, N. J. Representative Wolverton and Representative Thomas A. Jenkins, of Ohio, together with Senator Davis, of Pennsylvania, were the three Republicans, I believe, on the Tennessee Valley Authority Investigating Committee, Resolution 83, Seventy-fifth Congress. And Mr. Wolverton gave me some leads and some information and some people to see down there regarding communism in the TVA. He had heard something about it while he was on that committee.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Barker, when was the last time you saw the photostat or the photostats of the Hart letter?
Mr. BARKER. Well, it was sometime in, I would say, July 1940.
The CHAIRMAN. What disposition did you say you made of those? You gave them to Mr. Dies?
Mr. BARKER. Those photostats that I brought back stayed over in Mr. Dies' office for some little time.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you see them there from time to time?
Mr. BARKER. Well, not from time to time. I did see them there because I went over and got them.
The CHAIRMAN. What did you do with them when you got them?
Mr. BARKER. She was Mr. Dies's secretary. She is now working for Gillette of Pennsylvania, I believe.
I went over and got those records. The CHAIRMAN. You got the records out of the Dies committee files?
Mr. BARKER.'No; not the Dies committee files. The Dies committee files were not in Mr. Dies's office.
The CHAIRMAN. But you went over to Mr. Dies's office and got these photostats and gave them to Mrs. Boise?
Mr. BARKER. No, I got them from Mrs. Boise.
Mr. BARKER. I took them over to room 531 in the Old House Office Building and put them in the files. But before I put them in the files, either I or one of the girls wrote on a label, à gummed label. "Tennessee Valley Authority,” or “Communists in Tennessee Valley Authority," or something like that, to identify the subject matter. I put all that stuff in some envelopes and put it in the files.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you turn over to any person at any time, or any department or agency of Government, a photograph, one of these photographs or photostats?
Mr. BARKER. No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Did anybody, to your knowledge, turn one of those photographs or photostats over to any other person or to any agency or department of Government?
Mr BARKER. Not to my knowledge.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any knowledge whether there is in existence in any agency or department of Government, other than the Dies committee files, of the House of Representatives, a photograph or a photostat of this Hart letter?
Mr. BARKER. Well, Mr. Chairman, I was almost positive that Lieutenant Osborne had one of those photostats. So when I told the Public Works Committee about that, Senator Revercomb said: “Will you get in touch with him?”' and I said: “I will."
I went right next door to their office over there and called him in Birmingham.
The CHAIRMAN. He has already testified that he did not receive one and does not have one. I am not so interested in that point. I am asking you whether within your knowledge or memory any agency or department of Government, of the Federal Government, outside
of the Dies committee files, received a copy, a photograph, or a photographic copy, or a photostatic copy, of the Hart letter. Mr. BARKER. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Russell. Senator, could we not get this from the files of the Dies committee?
The CHAIRMAN. I understand that the files have been looked through, and neither the original letter nor a photostat has been located. We are told they just cannot locate any such letter or photostat. We have asked for it.
Senator MCKELLAR. But the mimeographed copies of the letterit was admitted that there were six, and one was sent me, which I put with the committee. And the gentleman who was here this norning, whose name I cannot recall, testified that he had the others there. That was after the committee had received testimony, after the other committee had received testimony that the files had been examined by a Mr. Boots, and that there were no mimeographed copies or any other kind of copies in the files.
The CHAIRMAN. In your investigation of these activities in the TVA, in connection with this Hart letter acquisition and photographing, did you at that time, or before that time, or at any time later, any time thereafter, work in cooperation with any other investigative department or agency of Government? Mr. BARKER. You say after I made that investigation in the TVA? Th9 CHAIRMAN. Either then, before, or after, in connection with this activity in the Tennessee Valley Authority.
Mr. BARKER. Oh, the Dies committee always worked in cooperation with other agencies. For instance, when I went to Knox County, I went to see the sheriff, who gave me a pair of dead tags from a car.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you work with any Federal Government agency?
Mr. BARKER. Well, yes; but there wasn't very close cooperation between the Dies committee and the Federal Bureau of Investigation for a while. After a while it got better.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, when it got better, is there any chance that you may have turned over a photograph?
Mr. BARKER. When you went down there, they would hold up a report and read it to you, but they wouldn't let you have it.
The CHAIRMAN. I say: Is there any chance that you might have turned over to that agency, or any other investigative agency of the Government, a photograph of this letter?
Mr. BARKER. No, sir. I am sure of that. The CHAIRMAN. You are sure that you did not turn it over? Mr. BARKER. I did not turn it over. The CHAIRMAN. Are you sure that Mr. Dies did not turn it over? Mr. BARKER. I would not know about that. The CHAIRMAN. Or any other agent of the Dies committee, or employee?
Mr. BARKER. I would not know about that. I left the Dies committee in February 1943.
The CHAIRMAN. So, as far as you know, no other investigative agency of the Federal Government, other than the Dies committee, or Mr. Dies, received a photographic copy of this Hart letter? Mr. BARKER. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. Is that correct?
Mr. BARKER. Yes, sir.
Senator McMahon. Mr. Barker, you did not show this photostatic copy to Mr. Starnes, as I believe you have testified?
Mr. BARKER. Yes; I testified to that.
Senator McMahon. He testified this morning that he had never seen it.
Mr. BARKER. Now, let me recollect on that. I couldn't say positively that Mr. Stripling saw this letter. But Mr. Stripling generally knew what was going on, Senator.
Senator MCMAHON. What was his position with the committee? Mr. BARKER. Mr. Stripling was secretary and chief investigator.
Senator McMahon. You would naturally bring to his attention anything of such importance, would you not?
Mr. BARKER. Well, in this particular matter, I was dealing directly with the chairman.
Senator McMahon. I see. Now, you told no member of the committee about it?
Mr. BARKER. Well, no. Mr. Dies told me not to.
Senator McMahon. So you did not tell Mr. Casey or Mr. Mason or any of the other members?
Mr. BARKER. No, not Jerry Voorhis or any of them. I did not say it to any of them.
Senator MCMAHON. You did not discuss it with the two investigators who came down to help you at your request in Knoxville?
Mr. BARKER. No, sir; I do not think I told either Kenney or Hurley about it.
Senator MCMAHON. So, of all the people that you had connection with, there was only one that you now definitely swear you told, and that was Mr. Dies?
Mr. BARKER. I am positive, of course, about Mr. Dies.
Mr. BARKER. Outside of Mr. Dies, I could not say for sure, positively, that Mr. Stripling knew about it, but my recollection is that he did. Because he pretty well knew what was going on all the time, everywhere.
Senator MCMAHON. I believe he says he did not.
Senator RusseLL. Do you know whether or not the Tennessee Valley Authority had any investigative branch or any police force?
Mr. BARKER. They had a guard service, but I don't think they had any division of investigation or anything like that. I don't think they had that.
Senator RUSSELL. You do not think they had any department of investigation similar to the one that the Public Works Administration had, for example?
Mr. BARKER. I think I have a chart of organization of the TVA right here. I don't think they had any division of investigation, no.
Senator Russell. You did not turn a copy of this letter over to any member of the Tennessee Valley Board?
Mr. BARKER. I never contacted anybody in TVA directly; that is, any official. No; I did not contact any official, because they would be duty-bound to report my presence down there, and Chairman Dies had instructed me to conduct this investigation in that way.
Senator RUSSELL. Well, they could have been helpful to you, could they not?
Mr. BARKER. Well, that is not the way the Dies committee made investigations of Communists. We didn't go out and tell everybody about it, because, if we did, the word would get spread around and they would all run and hide, and we wouldn't find out anything.
Senator RUSSELL. Did you make any investigation of Communists in the War Department?
Mr. BARKER. No, sir; but I did make some investigation of Communists in various departments here in Washington. Senator RUSSELL. What departments?
Mr. BARKER. Well, now, let's see. There was a toe dancer, or something, around here, that was with the Board of Economic Warfare, Maurice Parmelee. Senator Russell. Who instructed you to make that investigation? Mr. BARKER. I made that for Mr. Stripling. Senator RUSSELL. Who?
Mr. BARKER. I think Mr. Stripling asked me to go out and check on that. But that was just one phase of the matter.
Leo Crowley fired Parmelee that night, after the picture was taken of him standing on his toes.
Senator RUSSELL. In what other departments did you conduct investigations?
Mr. BARKER. I went to the Interior Department to interview Alice Barrow. We went down to see her. Of course she would not talk without the presence of a lawyer. She would not even answer a question as to what her name was. She wouldn't give any answer. Senator RUSSELL. Was that just an investigation of an individual?
Mr. BARKER. Well, we went around to various departments, and I can't remember them all, Senator, the various places we went.
Senator RUSSELL. For a man whose memory is as remarkable as yours, it is rather amazing that you cannot remember that.
Mr. BARKER. If you get me those records from the Dies committee, I could tell you all the people that I interviewed.
Senator RUSSELL. But investigations were conducted in other departments of Government? Mr. BARKER. Yes, sir.
Senator RUSSELL. Do you know whether or not there was any investigation made in the Department of Justice?
Mr. BARKER. Well, I am pretty sure that we did make some inquiry about certain employees of the Department of Justice.
Senator Russell. Now, was that done solely by the Dies committee, or did you enlist the cooperation of the FBI in making the investigation?
Mr. BARKER. No; FBI could not investigate a Government department, Senator, without the permission of the head of the department.
Senator Russell. Well, they are part of the Department of Justice, are they not?
Mr. BARKER. Yes; but I don't think that Francis Biddle thought his Department needed any investigation. I think we wouldn't do it that way. We would go right direct and make the investigation ourselves.
I made such an investigation of a Department of Justice employee, I believe, for Representative Albert Gore of Tennessee. The request