matter. I want you to go down there very quietly. Don't tell anybody where you are going, And make this investigation under cover, and see what you can find out about the Reds in TVA."

"Now," he said, "if anybody finds out about this, the New Dealers will stop you."

He said; "You know they had Joe Starnes' bill to deport aliens"I looked up the number of that bill, and it is H. R. 6724-"they got the President to veto that bill, and he did veto it Apr. 8, 1940." He said; "You go down there to Tennessee and see what you can find out."

So I left Washington by automobile and went to Knoxville, Tenn., and 2 days after this hearing on Laurent Brown Frantz' case I was on my way to Knoxville to investigate the alleged communistic activities in the Tennessee Valley Authority. And I stayed down there approximately a month.

Senator MCKELLAR. What did you find out?

Mr. BARKER. Well, I found that there was a Communist Party in the Tennessee Valley Authority. And we found that out in writing. And there was a witness that appeared before our committee up here in Washington who brought with him the report of the Communist Party organizer for Knox County, which report was dated September 11 and 12, I believe, 1937.

And that report-and I am reading now from page 666 of the executive sessions of the Dies committee, 1939-40, volume 1, Senate Library—included the following:

At the bottom of that report, after the witness, who at that time was Kenneth Talley, had identified the report and said that he got this report at a Communist Party meeting in Knox County, Tenn., I said to him:

Now, you got this report and this draft resolution at the Communist Party meeting?

And Mr. Talley said:

I did.

Mr. BARKER. It was given to you at a meeting of the Communist Party?
Mr. TALLEY. Yes.

Mr. BARKER. You knew it was a meeting of the Communist Party?

Mr. BARKER. This report of the Knox County organized to the all-southern conference of the Communist Party, 11th and 12th of September 1937 is mimeographed?

Mr. TALLEY, Yes.

Mr. BARKER. Consisting of six pages, and the name typed at the bottom is "K. Malcom"?

Mr. TALLEY. That is right.

Mr. BARKER. M-a-l-c-o-m?

Mr. TALLEY. That is right.

Mr. BARKER. Organizer of the Communist Party for Knox County, Tenn.?

Mr. TALLEY. That is right.

Mr. BARKER. Now, have you met that gentleman?

Mr. TALLEY. I have.

Mr. BARKER. He was a Communist?

Mr. TALLEY. He said he was.

Mr. BARKER. Well, he did not deny being a Communist?

Mr. TALLEY. No.

Mr. BARKER. His activities were in the interest of the Communist Party? Mr. TALLEY. That is right.

Mr. BARKER. Mr. Chairman, I think we should read this.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. BARKER. And have it incorporated in the record verbatim?
The CHAIRMAN. All right, read it.

Mr. BARKER. Mr. Matthews, will you read this for the record?
Mr. MATTHEWS. Certainly.

Senator MCKELLAR. What does the report show?

Mr. BARKER. The report shows that the most communistic branch was in Knoxville.

The most active, the most competent branch is the TVA branch in Knoxville. Through its efforts, the Knoxville Lodge of the AFGE was brought into UFW. That is the American Federation of Government Employees.

Mr. BARKER. That is right.

Mr. MATTHEWs (continuing). Through its efforts, the Knoxville Lodge of the AFGE was brought into UFW, and a movement started throughout the entire TVA for similar affiliation. This branch is very active in the UFW, carries on volunteer organizing for the TWOC, raises a subsidy for the expenses of the county organization of the body, and has several delegates to the CIO council.

The TWOC was the Textile Workers Organizing Committee. Senator RUSSELL. I am not clear as to the witness who is delivering that testimony. What is the name of the witness?

Mr. BARKER. Kenneth Talley, who was a witness before the Dies committee; and he brought this report with him.

Senator KNOWLAND. How many Communists did you find in the TVA?

Mr. BARKER. Well, according to the witnesses that testified-and I can only go by what they say, because I, personally, did not find any Communists in the TVA, except as we produced witnesses who testified there was a branch of the Communist Party in the Tennessee Valley Authority.

Senator KNOWLAND. That was branch No. 1?

Mr. BARKER. Yes. Right here they refer to it, I believe, as branch No. 1.

Senator KNOWLAND. Now, how many members were in branch No. 1?

Mr. BARKER. According to this report, which was in 1937, Senator, there were seven members.

Senator KNOWLAND. Now, how many employees were there at TVA at that time? You were down there about a month?

Would you say there were 15 or 18 thousand employees?

Mr. BARKER. Well, they had four office buildings in Knoxville, Tenn.

Senator KNOWLAND. That is, the TVA?

Mr. BARKER. Yes. They had the old Post Office Building and the Daylight Building, the Union Building, and, I believe, the Arnstein Building.

Senator KNOWLAND. The only point I am trying to make: Of course, what we are really meeting here for is to determine the qualifications of Mr. Lilienthal to be Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission. Now, there has been some testimony that there were 7 or 9 or perhaps 15 Communists in the TVA organization, which,

in my recollection, now included something like 20,000 people that had been working in TVA at one time or another.

Now, we might have a situation, taking General Motors or one of the great automotive industries in the country, where in such an organization there were a similar number of employees.

Would you say that because there were seven Communists in the General Motors organization, the president of General Motors should be disqualified from taking some Government position?

Mr. BARKER. No, sir.

I would like to answer your question, though.

Senator MCKELLAR. Go ahead.

Mr. BARKER. Senator, I was not particularly impressed with the small number of actual Communist Party members in the Tennessee Valley Authority. What I was trying to find out, Senator, was how many fellow travelers they had in the Tennessee Valley Authority; how many people that were subject to Communist Party discipline, that were nonparty Bolsheviks-in other words-that accepted orders from the Communist Party.

That is what I was trying to find out. And as part of that theory of my investigation, I went around-you see, it is awfully hard to establish definitely that a man is a Communist. They will deny it right down to the last, even when you produce a membership card.

Because it is never in a man's proper name. They always use some party name. P. N. for party name and R. N. for real name are the designations. We have had some of those records.

So I went down to Woodruff Booth, an old-time post-office employee, who had 50 years of service, or so, who was postmaster at Knoxville.

I went to Woodruff Booth and said, "Mr. Booth, I am from the Dies committee, and I want to know who is getting the Daily Worker in Knoxville."

"Well," he said, "we will have to watch for that. They have been delivered today."

But he arranged with a post-office inspector there for me to find out where that was being sent.

Now, there was a newsstand at the corner of Market and Clinch, right across from the Post Office Building in Knoxville, the old Post Office Building. And there was an old man on that newsstand that could hardly see. I believe the old man's name was Biler, I am not

sure.

But anyway, these bundles of the Daily Worker and the New Masses were going up to this newsstand. So there were three of those bundles. We tore one open-no, I think we tore two open, and we counted them. I think the big bundle bad 65 copies of the Daily Worker.

So I watched the newsstand to see who would come by to pick up that bundle. A young fellow that I did not have any evidence was an employee of the Authority, but thought he was, a messenger, a young fellow, came down there and picked up that bundle of 65 copies of the Daily Worker and carried them up to the Union Building, and he walked on past the guards and went up in the elevator, and I figured he must be an employee of the Authority.

I wanted to find out who was getting the Daily Worker.

I looked around, and found there were no other offices in that building except those of the TVA. They had the whole building.

Well, if I started making inquiries, it would excite some kind of suspicion. This investigation was supposed to be conducted completely under cover. No one must know anything about it. So far as I knew, the Reds in the TVA did not know they were being investigated.

So there was a building across the street, the Lotspeich Building. owned by a Mr. Roy Lotspeich, who publishes a newspaper down there, a Republican newspaper. That is the strongest Republican district in the United States, and it is still Republican despite the TVA and all the New Dealers that came down there. It is still Republican.

So I went to Mr. Lotspeich and represented myself as a real-estate agent and said that I had a client who wanted to rent some of that space. I thought the building was vacant. In the meantime, I had approached a young lawyer who worked for the Tennessee Valley Authority, and he was scared to death.

He did not want to have anything to do with me when he found out that I was with the Dies committee.

But after talking with him and using considerable persuasion on him, I finally got him to work with me. And by the way, he is personally known to Cordell Hull.

So I got this young lawyer. He had been in the Lawyers Guild. But when Ferdinand Pecora and Adolph Berle denounced it and quit, he went out of it, too.

I thought he was in the general counsel's office. I believe I told that to the other committee. But he was in the technical library of TVA.

I got this young lawyer to go with me, and we got the keys from Mr. Lotspeich and went up there early in the morning, before this boy would come down there to pick up the Daily Worker and the New Masses, and find out who was getting the paper.

I had a pair of binoculars for myself and a pair of binoculars for him. And we went to this old building, and the keys Mr. Lotspeich gave me would not unlock the door. But I happened to remember that I had in my car a lock kit given to be by an FBI agent.

So I went and got the kit, and we went on in and up to the second floor.

When we got in there, it was a bookie joint, where they were taking bets on the horse races. But there were not any bookmakers around there. That was in the morning.

So this lawyer's name he is no longer with the Tennessee Valley Authority-this lawyer's name is Thurber A. Wolfe, and he lives at 407 Scott Street, in Knoxville, Tenn.

Mr. Wolfe and I watched this boy bring that bundle of Daily Workers up there, and we saw him hand them to a red-haired man. And I said to Wolfe: "Who is the red-haired man?"

He said, "That is David Stone Martin, a graphic artist of the TVA." Later I got to know David Stone Martin by the name of David Livingstone Martin. But he left TVA about the time of this investigation by the Dies committee and came up here and went to work for the Office of War Information and changed his title to technical designer.

We watched the distribution of this paper, the Daily Worker, on that side of the building to employees of the Tennessee Valley Au

thority. Because they occupied that space, and there was nobody in there but them, as far as we could see, around that side.

And I put down the names of the people that got the Worker as Wolfe identified them. Then we went down a street to a Mrs. Johnson, and I paid her $5, I believe it was, for a room where we could watch the distribution of that paper in another TVA building, known as the Daylight Building.

Now, Henry Hart told us he resigned from the Communist Party Branch No. 1 of the TVA in 1939.

I believe his testimony was to that effect. But in May 1940, which would be some 17 months after that, I saw, and so did Thurber Wo fe see, Henry Hart in the Daylight Building in Knoxville reading the Daily Worker.

So I did not believe his story.

Senator MCMAHON. Mr. Barker, how many stories was the first
building that you looked into? How many stories high was it?
Mr. BARKER. Oh, I imagine it was several stories, Senator.
Senator MCMAHON. Well, 5 or 10?

Mr. BARKER. We could only get to the one story in this building, just to the second floor.

Senator MCMAHON. All you could see was the second floor?

Mr. BARKER. Yes, sir.

Senator MCMAHON. And you were on the second floor of the building across the street?

Mr. BARKER. Of the Lotspeich Building across the street, looking across Union Avenue into the Union Building, occupied by TVA. Senator MCMAHON. You are sure that they were reading the Daily Worker and not the Knoxville Journal?

Mr. BARKER. Oh, that was the Daily Worker, because we could see the paper.

Senator MCMAHON. Could you see the type?

Mr. BARKER. Well, the Knoxville Journal, you see, was peddled right on the street.

Senator MCMAHON. That is right.

Mr. BARKER. But this paper was folded up. The Daily Worker had been rolled.

Senator MCMAHON. Was that how you identified it?

Mr. BARKER. No; you could see Daily Worker on it.

Senator MCMAHON. Oh, you read the headline?

Mr. BARKER. It was a paper as large as this [indicating]. Here is the Daily Worker for June 1940. It was eight columns then, I think. It was eight columns then; yes.

Senator MCMAHON. Turn it up so that I can see it.

Mr. BARKER. Yes, sir.

Senator MCMAHON. Now, you looked across the street and you saw that heading?

Mr. BARKER. We had a copy of the Daily Worker before we went up there.

Senator MCMAHON. I understand that. I am not interested in what you had. I am thinking about you looking across the street What were these people doing? Were they holding it up over their shoulder reading it?

Mr. BARKER. No, Senator. Some of them put it in their newspaper. Some of them did not even stop to read it. But David Stone Martin was passing it out. I saw this kid give him the bundle. I