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as being most unusual? I am frank to say I have had FBI men come in and get information, but I have never known them to disclose previous information that they had secured from some other source.

Mr. Bolt. Well, I have been in conversation with one in particular with reference to this case, which I don't think I should reveal, just recently.

Senator MCKELLAR. Have you a memorandum made at the time? I heard you say something about a memorandum that would throw some light on the case.

Mr. Bolt. No. That is all that we referred to in our statement with reference to these charges: That he was on the verge of being forced to resign.

Now, there is another party who also knows about this, who presently is employed with TVA.

Senator KNOWLAND. Who is that?

Mr. Bolt. James H. Eldridge. He received the same information, and his recollection may be better or worse than mine. I don't know. But he knew about it at the time, because that is when we prepared this statement.

Senator MCKELLAR. Would not Mr. Herbert S. Marks know about it? He is here in Washington, I understand, now.

Would he not know about it?

Mr. Bolt. I wouldn't know. And a further indication of what was taking place was the indication in Mr. Swidler's conversation to me of June 13, which was a fairly clear indication to me that he was trying to make a place in the TVA Legal Department for Herbert S. Marks, and even revealed the ground on which he was going to do it.

Senator McMahon. Do you know what Mr. Marks' position was in the State Department at the time?

Mr. Bolt. No, I don't.

Senator McMahon. To even make it more remarkable, in connection with the FBI agent who would have this information: he was the assistant to the Under Secretary of State, and I believe was the Acting Secretary of State.

Mr. Bolt. I don't know what position he held.
Senator MCKELLAR. How long did he hold it?
Mr. Bolt. I don't know that.

Senator MCMAHON. I think, Senator, if I understand it, he has been Mr. Acheson's personal assistant for about a year.

Senator McKELLAR. Ah, Mr. Acheson's assistant? He was not there very long.

Senator McMahon. He was Mr. Acheson's assistant, I believe, until he went with the Commission.

Senator McKELLAR. He was also out in Bonneville, the testimony shows, for a while.

Senator McMahon. I think that was before. Senator McKELLAR. I will undertake to find out how long he was with the State Department.

Senator McMahon. About a year, I would say.

The CHAIRMAN. I think I can give you that information, Senator. He was special assistant to the Assistant Secretary of State and special assistant to the Under Secretary of State from 1945 until 1947, which I assume is the time which he started to take up his duties as counsel for the Atomic Energy Commission.

Senator McKELLAR. He was appointed some time in 1947, was he not?

The CHAIRMAN. I am reading only from a memorandum. I assume that it is accurate. It is the statement given me by Mr. Carroll Wilson. And it does not give the exact date, but it says from 1945 to 1947. He was in the State Department during that time.

Now, I do not know whether that is the entire year of 1945 or what, but it was apparently over a year's time.

One question, Mr. Bolt, that I overlooked a moment ago, that I would like to ask you: Do you have any knowledge or information as to whether or not it was the policy of TVA, while you were there, or whether it is the policy now, or has been at any time before you went to work for the TVA, to use soil experimentation programs or matters of that kind to go out into the valley or out to other places where TVA power could reach or introduce, and to use those programs as a lever or a compelling device to require those communities to install and use TVA power, as against competitive established private enterprise in those communities?

Mr. Bolt. There is no doubt but that TVA has been extremely active in encouraging the broader use of electricity.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that is true. I assume that that is true. That is not exactly my question.

Do you have any knowledge or any factual information on the question as to whether or not TVA, in its policy, in extending the use of public power from TVA, used some of its other beneficial activities to communities, such as soil-conservation practices and fertilizer supplies, and measures of that kind, to force, if you please, the acceptance and use of public power from TVA and to take it away from existing and established private utilities and private enterprises in those areas which this power could reach?

Mr. Bolt. I am not certain that I can answer your question with any degree of accuracy.

The CHAIRMAN. Do I take it that you have no such information on that subject?

Mr. Bolt. Not that I can just give offhand. In other words, I might be able to check it and give you an answer.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, do I assume that such practices did not come to your attention; that is, forcibly enough so that you would have an opinion or facts on it? Mr. Bolt. I mean, I can give an offhand opinion, but I may be in The Chairman. I do not want your guess, unless you are prepared to give some instances or illustrations of why you believe it to be so or not so.

Mr. Bolt. That is the reason that I don't think my knowledge is sufficient to give you a beneficial answer. Senator K NOW LAND. Of your own knowledge? Mr. Bolt. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. I would not ask you to give an unsupported conclusion.

Mr. Bolt. I don't want to.
Senator McKELLAR. Would you be good enough to look into it?

Mr. Bout. I can try my best to get the information. Of course, I don't have access to records, or anything of that sort.


The CHAIRMAN. So far as I am concerned, I am not asking you to turn yourself into a private investigator at this time. I am merely trying to delve into your past experience and see whether in that period of time any such practices came to your attention, supported by such facts or evidence as would give you something better than a mere unsupported conclusion. If you do not have that, that would be the end of my inquiry.

Mr. Bolt. Right at this moment, Mr. Chairman, I should know, but I don't. I am sorry, but it would be unsupported.

The CHAIRMAN. I have no more questions. Thank you, Mr. Bolt. Mr. Bolt. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. We will meet Monday morning at 10:30 o'clock in this room. And at that time, Mr. Dean Acheson, Under Secretary of State, will testify, and Mr. John Lord O'Brian will testify.

We cannot at this time plan a hearing for Monday afternoon because of the Senate session. It appears that the Senate will have a short session. We shall try to go right ahead and have a hearing Monday afternoon.

The next scheduled meeting after the Monday meeting is Tuesday morning. But we will try to have a meeting Monday afternoon if certain witnesses get here in time, and providing the Senate session will permit. The meeting is now adjourned until Monday morning.

(Whereupon, at 2:10 p. m., the committee recessed until 10:30 a.m., Monday, February 10, 1947.)

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Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10:30 a. m., pursuant to adjournment, in the Senate caucus room, Senate Office Building, Senator Bourke B. Hickenlooper (chairman), presiding.

Present: Senators Hickenlooper (chairman), Vandenberg, Knowland, Bricker, McMahon, Johnson, Connally.

Present also: Senators McKellar, Tobey; Representative Patterson. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

Mr. Dean Acheson, the Under Secretary of State, is here this morning, and he will be the first witness. We are customarily swearing the witnesses, Mr. Acheson.

Do you solemnly swear that the statements you make will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Mr. ACHESON. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. First I want to thank you for taking your time to come over here to testify this morning.

The special request was made to have you come to give some information with respect to Mr. Herbert S. Marks, who has been selected by the Commission as general counsel. Your statement is not necessarily limited to that phase of it. You may comment in such & way as you care to on the Commission itself, which is up for confirmation, or on the general manager, who is also up for confirmation.

First, do you have any prepared statement, Mr. Acheson?



Mr. ACHESON. No, Senator Hickenlooper. I do not. The CHAIRMAN. Then may I ask you how long you have known Mr. Herbert Marks?

Mr. ACHESON. I first saw and knew Mr. Marks in January 1945. The occasion for that meeting was as follows:

I had been appointed in December 1944 as Assistant Secretary of State in charge of congressional relations. Before that, I had been Assistant Secretary in charge of economic affairs. It became necessary for me to organize the office to take care of my new duties. It seemed to me that the way to do that was to get two or three or four people, preferably with legal training, of ability and character, who could take the various matters which were coming before the Congress at the instance of the Department, prepare the papers, prepare the witnesses, and in general present to the committees of Congress the information which was necessary in support of the legislation.

I finally ended up by having three people to assist me in that work. One of them was Mr. Edward L. Miller, who is now a partner in Sullivan & Cromwell. There was Mr. Herbert Marks, who is now with the Atomic Energy Commission.

And the third was Mr. John Ferguson, who is now with the International Bank.

The CHAIRMAN. Was Mr. Marks at that time with the Bonneville power project, or with TVA?

Mr. ACHESON. No; at that time Mr. Marks was with the War Production Board. He was recommended to me by one of the two gentlemen about whom I have spoken, either Mr. Miller or Mr. Ferguson. I cannot recall who it was. They were both in the State Department. Mr. Marks was at that time assistant to Mr. John Lord O'Brian in the War Production Board.

I was told that Mr. John Lord O'Brian was resigning, and that Mr. Marks also intended to resign and go back to the practice of law. I asked him to call on me and we had a talk about whether he was willing to come and join me. He said that he was.

I inquired about him from Mr. O'Brian, who knew him very well, and who spoke to me about him in the highest terms.

He then came to the State Department and was my immediate assistant from that time until he went over with the Atomic Energy Commission, shortly after that was established by act of Congress and the appointment of the President.

During those 2 years, or slightly over 2 years, I worked most intimately and closely with Mr. Marks. We worked on a whole variety of questions. The small group of people that I had with me conducted our affairs as though we were a law firm. As matters came before either of the Houses of Congress, whichever one of the four of us had completed some jassignment would take on the next assignment.

We worked together. We advised together. There was a great deal of work for four people to do, and we did it very intimately and very happily; and, I hope, well.

So that our relationships were very close indeed. During that time, I had the highest admiration for Mr. Marks' ability. He has excellent judgment, calm, broad judgment. He has great ability. He is a man of the highest character and integrity. And so far as I know, in all his relationships up here at the Capitol, the Members of the Senate and House who came in contact with him had confidence in him, relied upon his directness, his frankness, and his ability.

That work went on as long as I was Assistant Secretary, charged with those duties.

In August 1945, Mr. Byrnes asked me to become Under Secretary of State, and I became Under Secretary at the end of August 1945. At that time, I asked Mr. Marks to come over into the new office with me and be my new general assistant.

There, he was called on to go into practically all of the affairs of the Department of State. He saw people whom I could not see. He held meetings with various officers of the Department to coordinate matters. He followed up things for me, and he worked very closely with me on all the affairs of that office,

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