the job well. He now comes into another and a broader field, the matter of the production and the control and the handling of atomic energy. It isn't one that requires, in my judgment, a man who is a scientist, but it does require somebody who has vision, who has idealism, and who also has some practical common sense; one who is not afraid to take a subject that is new under the sun and try to chart a course for the benefit of humanity.

And he passes now, as I see it, from a regional and a national field into an international field, where the whole question of atomic energy comes into debate and scrutiny, as well as the formation of policies with reference to its production and its use; and I think that we are fortunate in having a man of his background and his experience in other walks of life to represent this Nation in the capacity to which he has been appointed.

Now, having said that, I would like to make a general statement with reference to what is probably the greatest matter of disput before this committee. That is the question of his loyalty to the Government of the United States.

As I told you in the beginning, I was one of the original appointees on the Special Committee Investigating Un-American Activities, and served with the committee throughout its life. I attended probably more of the hearings than any member of the committee.

Time without number, I had to preside over the affairs of the committee here in Washington, while the chairman was busily engaged in other matters or conducting investigations as a special subcommittee in other parts of the country.

Then, too, I have served as chairman of subcommittees in various parts of the country.

I know of no one on the face of the earth that would question my hostility to communism. I have taken about as terrific a beating from certain sections of the press of this country and certain segments of public opinion who are favorable to communism as any man that ever lived.

Under no stretch of imagination could I be accused of looking with the slightest degree of favor upon communism or statism in any form. I am unalterably opposed to that system of government for the people of the United States.

And I wouldn't recommend any man or woman living for a position of trust or responsibility, or a position of any type or character involv ing service with a State or the Federal Government, of whom I had any slight doubt about his loyalty to this Government; or his sympathy, on the other hand, for communism.

In 1938 there was a taxicab strike down in the city of Knoxville, in east Tennessee. The Communists, as usual, always looking for a method of entree, hastened down from the then capital of communism in the Western Hemisphere, New York City, in an attempt to take advantage of the situation.

Robert Gair, alias Bosterman, and his wife, Elizabeth, and several others came down to cultivate the soil of the strike.

A little later on, but about that time, there was a change in the affiliation of the Government employees in that area, from the American Federation of Government Employees, affiliated with the A. F. of L., over to the United Federal Workers of America, affiliated with the CIO.

There were some people who had been discharged from the TVA for causes that seemed sound, apparently, to the TVA-we were not interested in that phase of the operations of the TVA. There were others who were very much displeased with the fact that the local lodge of the AFL had changed its allegiance from one national labor organization to another. The charges of communism flew thick and fast. They were brought to the attention of the committee and we held an executive hearing. We didn't know whether the charges were well founded or not, but we had an executive hearing here in Washington-I believe it was on June 3, 1940-at which Mr. Dies presided, and at which practically every member of the committee was present. The committee was not too well impressed with the testimony that was presented at that time, but in order to be particularly careful, and to be sure that we were not overlooking any opportunity to expose the work of the Communist Party within Government agencies in the United States, the chairman directed that the FBI be apprised of the charges that had been brought to us, and that the President be apprised of them, and he appointed me a subcommittee of one-and, of course, chairman of the subcommittee to investigate the activities in that area. Mr. Barker was assigned to the task. He was told to go to the Valley and to follow all leads, and when ready for hearings to notify me.

Sometime in July Mr. Barker came back and reported that he was ready to hold hearings.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Barker is an investigator?

Mr. STARNES. That is right. He was at that time an investigator with the committee.

We went to the city of Chattanooga to hold our first hearings. That was on July 17, and then on July the 26th, we concluded the hearings here in Washington, D. C., when we had Mr. and Mrs. Williams with us.

Now, I will try to give you my impressions of the testimony and tell you what the committee did with respect to the investigation. Much of the testimony was wholly hearsay. A lot of it, it was apparent to the most casual observer, was hearsay, and based upon Founded and piqued feelings, on the one hand, and the strife between the two labor organizations on the other.

Now, the committee was never interested in the strife between the to labor organizations. The AFL did support the work of the committee. The CIO fought it and tried to block it at every turn. I am speaking now of the situation on the national scene.

No formal report was ever rendered by the full committee nor the subcommittee, for the simple reason that at the time the investigation was conducted, in 1940, legal and credible testimony pointed the finger at only three well-known cases, or cases where there was absolute, positive, and indisputable proof that these three parties were Commumists and were at that time employed by the Authority.

Those were Henry C. Hart, Muriel Spear Borah Williams, and in the judgment of the committee, David Stone Martin.

Now, most of the story about communism in the Knox County area where Knoxville is located resolves around the work of Ted Wellman who was the State organizer for the party and not an employee of the Authority-the activities of this man Gair and his wife from New York City, of Abe Leibstein, a tailor, who was not a

native of east Tennessee, Henry Thornton, a Negro janitor, and Francis J. Martin, the secretary and treasurer of the Knox County Communist Party, brother of David Stone Martin, but not an employee of the TVA.

None of them, as I recall, were employed by the TVA.

Mrs. Williams was the most active member of the Communist Party and was employed by the TVA. She was quite active. There were a number of people whose names were mentioned, by hearsay or otherwise, who were contacted, and denied in toto the charges and the statements made against them.

Some of those who undoubtedly were members of the party in 1937, 38, and 39, who had been employed by the TVA, were no longer employed by the TVA.

The most optimistic reports of the party's activities in that area were filed by Mr. Ted Wellman, the secretary of the party for the State. In 1937, he said there were 55 Communists in the Knox County area; that seven of them were employed by the TVA and belonged to what he called Branch No. 1-he said he had five branches of the party in that area-seven of them, four men and three women.

Now, it is interesting to note that in 1939, 2 years later, and just a year before our hearings, in another report, he said there were 65 members of the party in the Knox County area. So that is the sum total of the number. If you take the Communist Party secretary's figures as to those that were members of the Communist Party in the area, that was the largest number that we were able to obtain documentary evidence on with reference to membership in the Communist Party by employees of TVA, that statement of his to the southern conference in Chattanooga in 1937 and again in 1940. And by his own statement, there were seven of them. The CHAIRMAN. That is by

Mr. STARNES. That is by the Communist organizer, or secretary of the Communist Party, for the State of Tennessee, Ted Wellman. Senator KNOWLAND. Did your investigations, Mr. Starnes, indicate that these seven, or whatever number you finally convinced yourself might have been connected with the TVA, were in any one particular department of TVA?

Mr. STARNES. No; they were not, Senator.

Senator KNOWLAND. Were they pretty well distributed?

Mr. STARNES. I will come to that. Two of them were clerical, three were stenographic, and I don't know how you would define this fellow Martin-he was in the Graphic Section.

Senator KNOWLAND. How about this Mrs. Williams?

Mr. STARNES. She was a stenographer. She was a young lady from the State of New Jersey, a graduate of Mount Holyoke College. Senator KNOWLAND. Where did she work? Was she someone's secretary?

Mr. STARNES. She was a stenographer, a secretary, as I recall it. Senator KNOWLAND. To whom?

Mr. STARNES. I don't recall. She was working in Knoxville and Chattanooga both, and was working at Chattanooga at the time that we held the investigation.

Now, let me say this: With all the emphasis at my command, I want to say that at no time during the course of this investigation was there a charge that Mr. Lilienthal was a member of the Com

munist Party, had participated in its activities, or was sympathetic with its program.

The same can be said of Mr. Clapp, of Mr. Swidler, and every other man in a high responsible administrative or policy-making post. And there was not one scintilla of legal or credible testimony that would support a statement or a charge that Mr. Lilienthal was a member of the party, active in its councils, or sympathetic with its program.

I don't know of anything else I could say, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. May I ask you, Mr. Starnes: Having discussed these facts, as you have recited them, do you have knowledge of what, if any, activities were taken by the administrators of TVA to correct the situation?

Mr. STARNES. I called this matter personally to the attention of Mr. Clapp, who was at that time general manager. I carried to his office in Knoxville, Tenn., some time, as I recall it, in October of that year, a stenographic report of the executive hearings, and informed him that the contents were executive in their nature and were not to be made public under any circumstances, but that the committee had concluded its work.

We had found these three employees to be admitted members at one time or the other of the party, and we felt that the responsibility for further action was on his shoulders.

He then made a report to me, as chairman of the subcommittee, on November 30, of what had taken place. Mrs. Williams had been discharged for political activities. Mr. Martin had resigned. This young fellow Hart, who was about 19 years old, as I recall it, at the time he joined the party and 21 when he got out of the party, was still with the Authority.

And he stated that a very thorough examination of this boy's past, of his testimony, of his family connections, and of his record as an employee of the Authority, didn't warrant his discharge.

And he was still an employee. As I recall it, that was the disposition made administratively of the committee's work insofar as the TVA was concerned.

The CHAIRMAN. May I ask you, based upon that experience, that record: Do you criticize adversely the action of the management of TVA; that is, the method in which they handled the situation after your report and facts had been submitted to them?

Mr. STARNES. I do not, for the simple reason that in this letter-if the chairman has read it-Mr. Clapp set out in detail the procedure involved. They called in their general counsel, and I believe a man from the Personnel Department. They sifted the testimony before the committee. They called in the parties, as I recall it. And they turned over to the FBI certain data and material that they thought needed further investigation.

I have no criticism to make of that.

The CHAIRMAN. Does that mean not necessarily that it was handled as you would have handled it, but that it was handled at least satisfactorily in your own opinion?

Mr. STARNES. I think the manner in which they handled it, Mr. Chairman, was entirely satisfactory.

The CHAIRMAN. Since that time, let me ask you, Mr. Starnes: have you had any occasion, either in your official capacity or private

observations, to become suspicious that communistic activities have again become important in the operation of TVA?

Mr. STARNES. I have not, Mr. Chairman. There have been no further charges; there have been no further requests for investigation. There were no further requests during the 5 years that followed. And of course, what has transpired in 1946 and 1947, I don't know. The CHAIRMAN. I am asking you as to what has come to your attention.

Mr. STARNES. Nothing whatsoever has come to my attention. There was one episode in 1943, as I recall it, about a letter that was alleged to have been written by this Hart boy back in 1939 to someone in Birmingham, Ala., but my knowledge of that is all through the press.

Because when I arrived, I asked Mr. Stripling, who was then the secretary of the committee, and also his investigatorial staff, to obtain this letter for me if such a letter was in the files-to give me whatever data they had about it. He tells me he was unable to find any such letter. All he was able to find was mimeographed sheets of what purported to be a letter, but neither the original nor the photostat. I don't recall, of course, anything other than what was in the press at that time and what I have seen in the press since, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions? Senator McMahon? Senator Bricker?

Senator Knowland may have a question to ask you when he returns. Otherwise, are there any questions? Senator McKellar?

Senator MCKELLAR. Yes; I would like to ask Mr. Starnes a question, and that is the reason I joined in the request for his return. You made a report on this, did you not?

Mr. STARNES. I made a verbal report to the full committee, yes, sir. Senator MCKELLAR. Well, this looks like a report. Look at that and see whether you signed it or not, or whether you authorized it. [Hands to witness.]

It looks like a written report to me. Do you recall it well enough. to identify it?

Mr. STARNES. This seems to be a written report, Senator, filed on behalf of the entire committee, which was filed, I believe, at the beginning of the Seventy-seventh Congress, second session. It shows on its face what it purports to be. That is a full committee report, Senator.

Senator MCKELLAR. A full committee report. I will read part it so as to identify it:

of

Special Report on Subversive Activities Aimed at Destroying Our Representative Form of Government.

Mr. STARNES. Yes; that is the language, as I recall it, copied from the resolution passed in May 1938 when the committee was formed. Senator MCKELLAR. Wherever taken from, it is on this report signed by you.

June 25, 1942, Committed to the Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union and ordered to be printed.

And then occur the words:

Mr. Starnes of Alabama, from the Special Committee on Un-American Activities, submitted the following report: