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Senator McMahon. Doctor, have you gone into the proposed budget for the Commission?

Dr. Bush. Not in detail, no, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Russell?
Senator RUSSELL. No questions.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Bricker?

Senator BRICKER. Do you know Mr. Marks, who has been chosen as general counsel for this Commission?

Ďr. Bush. Yes, I know Mr. Marks from my association with him in the Secretary of State's Committee on Atomic Energy, of which he was the secretary.

A year ago last November, Secretary Byrnes went to the Committee to aid him in formulating policy in regard to international relations on atomic energy. That Committee consisted of Mr. McCloy, General Groves, Dr. Conant, Mr. Acheson, and myself. Mr. Marks served as secretary of that Committee. That Committee set up the Lilienthal Board, which produced the great report which forms the basis of our conduct of our international relations in the United Nations Organization at the present time.

Mr. Marks' performance as secretary of that Board was the first time that I have seen him in action intimately, although I had known him for some time before that.

He performed his function there exceedingly well. We had before us one of the most difficult problems that a group of citizens ever faced in attempting to sort out at that time what was reasonable as a proposal for this country. The real work was done by the Lilienthal Board, and it was magnificent work, but the Secretary of State's Committee sat with them and reviewed. Mr. Marks, in his activities as secretary, demonstrated in my opinion great skill in such affairs.

You haven't asked me anything about the members of the Commission, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Your endorsement was completely unqualified and unlimited, I thought, awhile ago, in your statement. I would be delighted to have you discuss the individual members if you care to.

Dr. Bush. I would be glad to assume that the absence of questions indicates complete agreement with me.

Senator BRICKER, Not necessarily agreement, but an understanding that it was comprehensive. If it did not apply to all the members, we would be glad to have you define it.

Dr. Bush. It does. I know them all. I have known them for different lengths of time. Dr. Waymack I have only met since he was named to the Commission. The others I have known for many years.

Mr. Lilienthal, I have known for about 15 years. I regard him as a great American, and I am proud that he is my friend. My pride was very greatly increased by the statement which he made before you a few days ago, and which will soon, I am sure, be read by every thoughtful American.

I think it will become one of the great papers, one of the great statements of our democracy. I endorse it in every particular.

The others I have also known for some time, but not as well.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask a question at this point: I suggest this: that a man may be a great American and a great patriot and still may require special abilities to be Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission?

Dr. Bush. Which Mr. Lilienthal has ably demonstrated.

The CHAIRMAN. I was merely going to ask you for your comment on that phase of the matter.

Dr. Bush. Yes. His performance as Chairman of TVA is well known to everyone, and I do not need go into it. I think his most excellent performance that I know of was as the Chairman of the Lilienthal Board, to which I have already referred.

He has demonstrated a skill in public affairs and a skill in management. He has ably demonstrated that he is a great American and a loyal one.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any specific comments on any of the others?

Dr. Bush. Oh, yes; I have comments on all of them. I have already commented on Mr. Waymack.

Admiral Strauss I have known for many years. I came into close contact with him when he was in the Navy during the war, particularly when he was aide to Secretary Forrestal, and concerned with scientific matters, technical matters, where our interests overlapped to a great extent.

He has, as you have before you, a long and important background in many important business associations. During the war, be demonstrated to me--which he did not need to demonstrate, because I already knew it--a very keen mind in regard to scientific matters, an understanding and quickness of grasp which is quite extraordinary:He is a very able citizen and will make you a good member of the Commission.

Mr. Pike I have not known as long. I have known Mr. Pike in the way that one man about Washington working on the war effort knows another man who is doing the same sort of thing at the same time.

He is a very genial gentleman and a very likable individual. I believe from all that I know that he will add to the Commission a very important element that will be very welcome there.

Dr. Bacher, I need to say little concerning, I am sure. He is one of the outstanding physicists of this country, well admired by scientific men throughout the country, whose war record you have, and which is an extraordinary one.

He contributed very definitely, not only from his own scientific comments and achievements but in the management of scientific matters during the war, when he was associated with Dr. Oppenheimer as one of his principal directors.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions by the committee? Dr. Bush. There is one more thing I might add, if I may.

When you asked me about Carroll Wilson I had a point that I intended to put in and did not. I will add it now, if I may.

I think the question you raised was in regard to his business ability: An important point on that is how businessmen in this country regard him. And I can best answer that by saying this: That since he joined me in 1940 I know of five cases where he has been approached for important business posts, three of those for the presidencies of manufacturing companies of some importance, two in connection with vice presidencies. In several cases the salary of the then incumbent was several times what the United States Government will pay to the General Manager of the Atomic Energy Commission. The selection, the approach, was made in several cases by men who are prominent

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in American business and who are presumably good judges of business ability.

I cite that to indicate that businessmen in this country have found out about Carroll Wilson. I found out about him first, and that is

. why I had him with me throughout the war. Business was a little later in finding out about him. I am very glad that the Commission has found out about him, and the whole country will in time.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a matter that you wanted to read from that book?

Dr. Bush. I would like to read the whole book, Senator, but I don't think I ought to. The CHAIRMAN. I thought you had a place marked. Dr. Brsh. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Any other questions? If there are no more questions by the committee, and Dr. Bush, if you have no more statements that occur to you, we will ask you, I am sure, within the next few days, if your time permits, if you can visit with us in executive session on some matters that probably will be of mutual interest. Dr. Bush. I will be very glad to do that. The CHAIRMAN. And thank you very much for your time this morning.

The session this afternoon will be in this room, at 2 o'clock, and at that time Mr. Starnes, former Congressman Joe Starnes, will be here. He was vice chairman of the Dies committee, I believe, and has been requested by Mr. Lilienthal and by Senator McKellar.

The agenda of other witnesses, of whom there are about 10 at the present time, cannot be made up today, because we have not been able yet to get a time when they can be here in sequence or with some efficiency. That will be announced shortly.

The meeting this afternoon, as I said, will be in this room, and it will begin at 2 o'clock.

The meeting is adjourned. (Thereupon, at 11:15 a, m., the committee recessed until 2 o'clock, same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION The committee reconvened at 2 p. m., at the expiration of the recess. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

The first witness this afternoon will be the Honorable Joe Starnes, a former Member of Congress and former vice chairman of the Dies committee. Mr. Starnes has been requested both by Mr. Lilienthal and by Senator McKellar. Mr. Starnes, will you take the stand here? Do you solemnly swear that the statements you make will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Mr. STARNES. I do.

TESTIMONY OF JOE STARNES, GUNTERSVILLE, ALA. The Chairman. Your personal history, as printed in Who's Who in America, 1946–47, will be placed in the record at this time. (The personal history is as follows:)

JOE STARNES Ex-Congressman; b. Guntersville, Ala., Mar. 31, 1895; s. John Walker and Mary Boyd (Perkins) S; LL. B., U. of Ala., 1921; m. Del Clark Whitaker, Apr. 10,

1918; children-Joe, Paul Whitaker. Teacher Ala. pub. schs., 1912–17. Admitted to Ala. bar, 1921; in practice at Guntersville; mem. 74th to 78th Congresses (1935-45), 5th Ala. Dist; mem. House Appropriations Com., 75th Congress; mem. Special Com. for Investigating un-American and Subversive Activities, 76th Congress; author, Veterans Preference Act, 1944. Served as 2d it. Infantry, U. S. Army in Eng., France, and Germany, World War I; capt., then major, Ala. Nat. Guard, on inactive duty, 1941-45; col., U. S. Army since 1945, now overseas. Awarded Silver Star citation (U. S.). Member Alabama State Board of Education. Mem. Am. Legion, Vets. of Fgn. Wars, Mil. Order World War, Nat. Rifle Assn., U. S. Infantry Assn., Pi Kappa Phi, Phi Delta Phi. Democrat. Methodist. Mason, Shriner, K. T., K. P. Home: Guntersville, Ala.

The CHAIRMAN. You are a former Member of Congress from Alabama, are you not, Mr. Starnes?

Mr. STARNES. I am.
The CHAIRMAN. What congressional district?
Mr. STARNES. The Fifth Congressional District.

The CHAIRMAN. And as such, you served, at least during the last portion of your tenure, as a member, and as vice chairman, at least for a portion of the time or perhaps all of the time, of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, commonly called the Dies committee?

Mr. STARNES. That is right, Mr. Chairman. I was appointed by Speaker Bankhead at the time of the formation of the committee

. Mr. Dies and Mr. Thomas, of New Jersey, and myself were the three members of the original committee who served throughout the entire life of the special Committee on Un-American Activities.

The CHAIRMAN. I see. So that your information on the committee and its activities began with its organization?

Mr. STARNES. And continued until it expired January 31, 1945.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, as I announced a moment ago, perhaps in your hearing, request that you come here has been made by both Senator McKellar and by Mr. Lilienthal, and, as you already know, you had been previously contacted by the committee as to your convenience in coming.

You are very welcome, sir.
Mr. STARNES. Thank you, sir, and I am happy to be here.

The CHAIRMAN. We feel that you perhaps have some information that may be helpful in these hearings.

The hearings, as you know, are in connection with the confirmation of the five appointed members of the Atomic Energy Commission and the General Manager.

Now, first, may I ask you if you have any comments, specific comments, that you would like to make as to any of the appointed members of the Commission and the General Manager? If so, we would be pleased to have them, in your words.

Mr. STARNES. Mr. Chairman, if I may, I would like to make a general statement, and then I shall be happy to respond to any questions that may be propounded to me from any source, and give whatever information I may have concerning Mr. Lilienthal or any other appointee of the Board, or answer any question concerning the fitness of Mr. Lilienthal and the other members of the Board.

The CHAIRMAN. From your experience in Congress, I am sure you are perfectly familiar with these proceedings and you may proceed as you see fit.

Mr. STARNES. Thank you, sir. Mr. Lilienthal is the only member of the proposed commission that I know well, that I know personally. I have known Mr. Lilienthal since April of 1935. At that time, he was a member of the Board governing the affairs of the TVA, and I was a neophyte Member of the House of Representatives. I first saw him when he appeared before a hearing of the Military Affairs Committee of the House.

Throughout the years, I was thrown with him often, as I was with other members of the Board and officials of the TVA, first, because I live in the valley, in the very heart of it; secondly, because of the fact that after the ist of January 1939 I was a member of the subcommittee of the Appropriations Committee in the House, handling independent offices, which handled the annual budget for the TVA.

Under those circumstances, my contacts with Mr. Lilienthal were quite frequent, personal, and official.

In my judgment, he is a man of impeccable character. I have never heard a ught against the personal life and character of Mr. Lilienthal.

Secondly, as a public official, I regard him as an able administrator, & good executive, conscientious in the performance of his duties, and a man with vision and character, energy and realism.

If the TVA has been successful in its operations—and I think it is generally so considered by the vast majority of the people of the United States--certainly due credit must be given to Mr. Lilienthal, as a member of the Board of Directors and later as Chairman, for the direction of its affairs.

We in the valley have a very high regard for him as a man and as a Government official. I have heard him express his views with reference to the functions of the TVA under the law, and what he regarded as his duties thereunder.

I have heard him talk to groups of farmers, to laborers, to business and professional men throughout the valley many times; and what I say with reference to what the people of the valley think about him is based upon my living with them, being one of them, and being present with him and them at many of their group meetings in that

Certainly, when he was appointed a member of the Board, the TVA was something new under the sun. The idea was deemed quite revolutionary at the time. However, I think the manner in which the affairs of the Authority have been conducted has demonstrated the soundness of developing the natural resources of the region to enrich the lives of its people, to add to the sum total of economic wealth of the Nation, and to build a better citizenship. It has been done, in my judgment, in keeping with the law.

And let me say this, Mr. Chairman: I followed the course of all the investigations. As you know, the TVA was investigated by a joint congressional committee thoroughly and searchingly in the early days. It had to run the gamut of all of the Federal courts, including the Supreme Court, and was subjected to legal attack by the very best legal brains that could be procured in this country; and it withstood the stern test of a searching investigation by the elected representatives of the people, on the one hand, and by the Supreme Court of the United States, on the other.

And to me, when I review that history, and have lived with it, that is sufficient as far as Mr. Lilienthal's work with the TVA is concerned.

Now, his appointment, I think, was an exceedingly fine appointment on the part of the President. Mr. Lilienthal has operated in a new field before, as I have just tried to outline to you, and has done



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